PorterhouseMusic
Well-known member
Not 100% sure - but I believe that this model is no longer offered new. In north America anyway.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
I was going to suggest that, but it seems it has been discontinued in the US, South and Central America. Unavailable at Sweetwater, Guitar Center, even Amazon. Now they only show the DP06 in that form, and the Portacapture X6 and X8 in the portable form. DR40X says discontinued, but still available at some places like Amazon, Walmart, Sweetwater and B&H Photo in the US.
What model microphones do you have? If they are standard low impedance mics with 1/4" jacks, you just need a simple adapter cable to plug into the XLR connectors, which are the normal studio standard.
I have some old mics from the late 60s that are high impedance mics with 1/4" jacks. It was common on many PA systems at the time. They are similar to an electric guitar in terms of output voltage and impedance, and there were times we just plugged a mic into a guitar amp!
And one last comment... never set your requirement by what you think will do everything NOW. I quickly found out that having reserve capability is always good. Think 2 inputs is enough? Wait until you have two friends come over! 4 is my absolute minimum, and would prefer 6 inputs. It might cost you an extra $50 more to step up, but if it lasts you 5 years, you'll never miss those few $$. That's the price of 2 pizzas or a tank of gas these days.
When I get a new mic, and want to get a good idea where is sits vs my current arsenal, I can hook up a half dozen other mics and do a very good comparison. I do some jamming at a friend's house. A month or so back, we had 5 vocal mics, 2 guitars, a bass and 8 drum mics! That's 16 channels. When I started, that might have cost you $10-20,000 or more just for the tape deck! Now it's all in one box for about $1200.
Slouching Raymond
Well-known member
Just checked, and Gear4Music here says not available either.
Sounds like a new model is coming.
PorterhouseMusic
Well-known member
This subject in general gets my juices flowing. Not to replace one of these smaller application types.... but in the sense that I can imagine and have thought about the ideal new state-of-the-art standalone recorder - and hope/wish they're working on it. There is no reason to believe that they are.
rob aylestone
Moderator
On another forum people were also talking about zoom recorders, so I knocked a little video up to show my Zooms.
Wabatuckian
Member
Dude, you don't even want to know. The one I use for vocals is an "Adam DM-116". The other one, I can't find a brand. It's set up in front of the guitar amp, and I'm pretty certain it doesn't have the range for it. Mics are something else I'm looking into.
Speaking of which, I'd like to find a decent mic for the amp; I just don't know what to look at.
I do have a better mic around here. It's one I'd take to school when I substitute taught for a couple years to use when I covered band. (I'd play old rock music and the kids would jam on drums etc -- it was fun.)
Thing is, I can't find it nor do I remember what it is.
E
ecc83
Well-known member
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XM8500--behringer-xm8500-handheld-dynamic-vocal-microphone
They are way better than their price would suggest, good amp mic. The C2 capacitors at around £35 here are very good too. Just check them on receipt. I bought 4 and one was crackly at about -35dBfs. There are lots of very cheap mics around and the same applies, QC is poor so check them out. Do not despise the USB mics either, very handy for getting an acoustic guitar into a laptop on the fly. A "half height" boom stand is invaluable. Small enough to poke a mic at an amp but will reach up to beer hole for yodeling.
Dave.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
The Adam appears to be a bit of a toy mic. Plastic case? It does say 600ohm, so it's low Impedance.
I think that you could do worse than the XM8500 or SL75Cfrom Behringer. I wouldn't go that route for doing acoustic guitar recording but for something like punk style vocals, they should be fine. The SL75 is somewhat similar to the Shure SM57 which is a pretty standard mic for recording guitar amps in studios. For $20 for either you can do a lot worse.
A pair of C2 condenser mics is about $50. I have a pair, mostly purchased for the case to house my Rode M5s which didn't come with a case. For 50, you get two pencil mics, a case, mounting bar and foam covers. That's not a bad deal. I compared them to my AKG P170s and Rode M5s. They are a bit noisier than either and harsher on the top, but with some EQ, you could easily use them.
Another choice might be a Takstar CM60. Running about $35 for a pencil condenser, they are somewhat similar to the CAD 1200XL and MXL 603.
All of these are in the budget realm. Condenser mics need 48V which something like the Zoom or Tascam recorders will provide. I don't know about your mixer. From the 80s, it might have phantom power but it wasn't all that common, especially on budget gear.
I think that you could do worse than the XM8500 or SL75Cfrom Behringer. I wouldn't go that route for doing acoustic guitar recording but for something like punk style vocals, they should be fine. The SL75 is somewhat similar to the Shure SM57 which is a pretty standard mic for recording guitar amps in studios. For $20 for either you can do a lot worse.
A pair of C2 condenser mics is about $50. I have a pair, mostly purchased for the case to house my Rode M5s which didn't come with a case. For 50, you get two pencil mics, a case, mounting bar and foam covers. That's not a bad deal. I compared them to my AKG P170s and Rode M5s. They are a bit noisier than either and harsher on the top, but with some EQ, you could easily use them.
Another choice might be a Takstar CM60. Running about $35 for a pencil condenser, they are somewhat similar to the CAD 1200XL and MXL 603.
All of these are in the budget realm. Condenser mics need 48V which something like the Zoom or Tascam recorders will provide. I don't know about your mixer. From the 80s, it might have phantom power but it wasn't all that common, especially on budget gear.
Wabatuckian
Member
The Adam does have a plastic case, and appears to sell for $25 used on Sweetwater.
The one I can't find is completely metal.
This mixer runs on 9v.
When I bought them, the idea was that, if I ever did use them for recording, I wanted a 1990s garage band sound, but I wanted it to sound like a good garage band, if that makes sense.
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TalismanRich
Well-known member
I don't think any 1990s garage band ever used that for a mixer, and the sound doesn't really come from the mixer, it comes from the performer. But you need real gear, not toy gear from 40 years ago!
Even the most basic garage bands usually were looking at something like this by that time. Mackie gear was really popular in the mid 90s, as was Peavey. Something like this is available to me locally on Craigslist for $100. Not perfect but if it works 95% there's a lot there. Maybe one channel is flakey... you've got 15 more. They were recording on Tascam cassette portastudios. Fine at the time, but now that they are 40 years old most are broken, with dissolved belts, busted capstans and beat to hell. AND people pay big $$$ for working ones because they think they're going to get "that sound".
But remember, with one of the portable recorders, you won't even need to use that. Microphone to Recorder to SDHC card. Pull the card and put it in the computer and copy the tracks, then work in the computer. It's VERY simple.
Check around on places like Craigslist, pawn shops or ebay for used gear if you can't afford to buy new. I got my Yamaha mixer (MX12/4) for a few hundred used many years ago. Still works. The Mackie 1400i amp I bought used worked for a while but developed a problem (they had issues with ribbon cables), so I replaced it with a QSC amp that has been rock solid. You just need to check out used gear.. don't accept that it's in flawless condition, especially if it's 15 or 20 years old.
I see used H4n on Ebay today for under $100. The newer H4Essential is $150. A Behringer XM8500 and a SL75C plus a couple of cables and you can be recording for under $200.
Even the most basic garage bands usually were looking at something like this by that time. Mackie gear was really popular in the mid 90s, as was Peavey. Something like this is available to me locally on Craigslist for $100. Not perfect but if it works 95% there's a lot there. Maybe one channel is flakey... you've got 15 more. They were recording on Tascam cassette portastudios. Fine at the time, but now that they are 40 years old most are broken, with dissolved belts, busted capstans and beat to hell. AND people pay big $$$ for working ones because they think they're going to get "that sound".
But remember, with one of the portable recorders, you won't even need to use that. Microphone to Recorder to SDHC card. Pull the card and put it in the computer and copy the tracks, then work in the computer. It's VERY simple.
Check around on places like Craigslist, pawn shops or ebay for used gear if you can't afford to buy new. I got my Yamaha mixer (MX12/4) for a few hundred used many years ago. Still works. The Mackie 1400i amp I bought used worked for a while but developed a problem (they had issues with ribbon cables), so I replaced it with a QSC amp that has been rock solid. You just need to check out used gear.. don't accept that it's in flawless condition, especially if it's 15 or 20 years old.
I see used H4n on Ebay today for under $100. The newer H4Essential is $150. A Behringer XM8500 and a SL75C plus a couple of cables and you can be recording for under $200.
PorterhouseMusic
Well-known member
Pardon me if you specified this already.... can you share what your budget is?
Wabatuckian
Member
Honestly, I've not worked it out.
My hobbies include music, mountain biking/ATB/bikepacking, firearms (precision .22, hunting, handloading, black powder), fishing, archery, metal detecting, and I'm probably forgetting some. None of these are particularly cheap. I have a side business repairing bikes to try to support the bike hobby, and I need to get out metal detecting again; my house was built in 1910 and I'm sure folks have dropped lots of money on the sidewalks over the years. Just have to find it
Point is, none of my hobbies are particularly inexpensive, so I have to divide disposable income between them.
I try to go as cheap as possible while still getting good results. Two of my guitars, the Indiana electric and Ibanez 12-string, are from thrift shops. I rebuilt the electric and need to replace the electronics on the Ibanez, but never really plug in acoustics.
My 6-string is a Rogue I bought as a cheap guitar from a now-deceased session musician. He'd thrown a pickup on it. I did some action work, and it's my traveling guitar. It goes with me on my back quite often when I ride my bike.
If I wreck, I'll not be out a lot of money if I break the guitar.
I guess the best way to put it is this: I like to spend as little money as necessary to get an acceptable outcome.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
If $200 on a used H4n and 2 mics is expensive, then you're probably looking at the wrong hobby. It becomes a question of priorities. Guns aren't cheap. Good bows aren't cheap. Bikes aren't cheap. I'm guessing you aren't using a $30 bow and arrow set from Walmart, and you're not riding a $100 Huffy! Just like the guns, bikes and bows, quality costs more than a Big Mac meal.
I play golf, and the first clubs I bought 25 years ago cost me $200 for the whole set, bag, putter, everything including a glove and sleeve of balls. Today, my driver cost more than that. I didn't buy the latest $800 driver though, the clubs weren't new but they're quality. My putter that cost $200 is now about 10 years old. I don't play $5 ProV1 balls, but I don't play $0.75 cheap balls or $0.50 recycled balls. $1.50 to $2 is a good spot. I don't belong to a country club for $10,000/yr. Walking city courses for roughly $15/round is fine.
At some point there's a minimum effort and cost that needs to be expended to get acceptable results.
I play golf, and the first clubs I bought 25 years ago cost me $200 for the whole set, bag, putter, everything including a glove and sleeve of balls. Today, my driver cost more than that. I didn't buy the latest $800 driver though, the clubs weren't new but they're quality. My putter that cost $200 is now about 10 years old. I don't play $5 ProV1 balls, but I don't play $0.75 cheap balls or $0.50 recycled balls. $1.50 to $2 is a good spot. I don't belong to a country club for $10,000/yr. Walking city courses for roughly $15/round is fine.
At some point there's a minimum effort and cost that needs to be expended to get acceptable results.
Wabatuckian
Member
Yessir, and, if it takes a $200 recorder for good results, that's what I'll buy. In fact, I was looking at them before I came here -- was looking at a lot of stuff -- but I needed to get guidance before I started buying. I had no idea whether Zoom was any good, just that I saw it on Amazon when I typed in "four track digital recorder".
When I got back into biking in 2022, I bought a Schwinn from Walmart that I liked. When I stopped biking back in the 1990s, Schwinn was an awesome brand. Turns out, not so much anymore.
Instead of starting over, I built the bike, and dubbed it The Bike of Theseus. It has expensive parts, and the only original part now is the frame.
Had I gotten educated first, I'd have taken a similar path, but would have gone about it in a smarter fashion.
So, I'm here, asking questions, before I spend a dime on semi-serious recording gear
Wabatuckian
Member
Another thing I just remembered I have:
It works well. I just don't know how to use it
I've read that they're getting popular for some reason, vintage sound or something.
It works well. I just don't know how to use it
I've read that they're getting popular for some reason, vintage sound or something.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
We've all been down that route. I've got one of these, used it on 3 or 4 songs, but never had the patience to learn to actually program it. As with anything, it only sounds as good as the operator, and this operator just didn't get comfortable. It sits in the box, and I use a program in my DAW called MT PowerDrumkit. Much easier to work, easily customizable. What I should be doing is cut the basic track with a click, then give it to my drummer buddy and tell him to have at it!
P
PitchTempoAndriy
New member
On your monitoring question in #20: for headphones while recording, start with both vocal and guitar in the mix. Bring the guitar up only far enough to follow the rhythm and pitch, then balance the vocal so you can hear it clearly without turning the whole headphone level up. If the amp is already easily audible in the room, you may need very little extra guitar in the headphones. The useful balance is the one that lets you perform comfortably; it needn't match the final recorded mix.
Headphones that aren't connected don't let you hear what the microphones are capturing. With a recorder or interface, listen through its headphone output and use its direct/input monitoring option if available. If you later use a computer and hear a delayed second copy of yourself, check that you aren't monitoring the same input through both the hardware and the recording software.
If by 'active system' you mean a loudspeaker in the room instead, that's a different setup: a vocal mic feeding a speaker can cause feedback and the speaker can spill back into the recording. For recording yourself, headphones are the simpler starting point.
Headphones that aren't connected don't let you hear what the microphones are capturing. With a recorder or interface, listen through its headphone output and use its direct/input monitoring option if available. If you later use a computer and hear a delayed second copy of yourself, check that you aren't monitoring the same input through both the hardware and the recording software.
If by 'active system' you mean a loudspeaker in the room instead, that's a different setup: a vocal mic feeding a speaker can cause feedback and the speaker can spill back into the recording. For recording yourself, headphones are the simpler starting point.
E
ecc83
Well-known member
Don't think I have shares in Behringer or that I am that happy with some of their business practices! But, they have made a vast range of very affordable mixers over the years and reliability? I have a Xenyx 802 in the back bedroom that amps up two mics in my garden and that hasn't been switched off for over 12 years! But beware the early USB mixers, they were 16 bit and rather noisy. (the converter, the pre amps were still fine)
Excellent that you can do your own electronics. There will always be "project boxes" you can knock up and cables to repair. There is also huge amount of audio DIY kits about now....today's kids don't know they are born! 60 years ago I had to scrimp for weeks to buy a few components! E.G. A cheap 1:1 transformer and a 10k pot and you've got yourself a re-amp box. A DI box is little more effort but then a basic, passive DI is pretty damn cheap!
Bit of a swerve? You could look out for an old "Portasound" keyboard. I have a Yamaha and it has a demo mode, good for making a musical noise when setting up and it has 8 1"x1" pads along the front which can be assigned to any internal sound.Great fun whacking out drum patterns! Generates MIDI as well and is a sequencer. Cost me a nifty years ago as an uncollected repair.
And yes, headphones with a live mic but also look for "closed back" phones. I like my Sennheiser 480s but they are the whole budget.
Dave.
Excellent that you can do your own electronics. There will always be "project boxes" you can knock up and cables to repair. There is also huge amount of audio DIY kits about now....today's kids don't know they are born! 60 years ago I had to scrimp for weeks to buy a few components! E.G. A cheap 1:1 transformer and a 10k pot and you've got yourself a re-amp box. A DI box is little more effort but then a basic, passive DI is pretty damn cheap!
Bit of a swerve? You could look out for an old "Portasound" keyboard. I have a Yamaha and it has a demo mode, good for making a musical noise when setting up and it has 8 1"x1" pads along the front which can be assigned to any internal sound.Great fun whacking out drum patterns! Generates MIDI as well and is a sequencer. Cost me a nifty years ago as an uncollected repair.
And yes, headphones with a live mic but also look for "closed back" phones. I like my Sennheiser 480s but they are the whole budget.
Dave.
Wabatuckian
Member
Chances are I'll sell it. I thought it was something cool to play with, but turns out I don't like it.
I'm thinking about getting an electronic drum kit. I'm not a drummer, but my brother-in-law is (though he doesn't currently have a set), and my 7th-grade daughter shows interest off and on.
I guess I've never liked the idea of using buttons to get drum sounds. You gotta earn it, ya' know?
TalismanRich
Well-known member
This is what I use now:
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