what kind of amp do I want? confused

T

the dairy giant

New member
Ok, I've played guitar forever, I'm pretty accomplished but I'm not a gear head or tone freak kinda person. I've never even played through a tube amp, to my knowledge... most of my playing lately has been at home, recording into Logic, using Amplitube etc.

But I do play live... in a kinda jazzy duo, using a 335 copy. this I play through a Zoom GT7-something directly into the PA. It usually sounds pretty good, scoff if you will. its warm and clean and is great for a clean jazzy vocal accompaniment. Kinda tuck andress-ish sound, with a wee bit od distortion sometimes from the little toy tube thats in the Zoom.

I have also played for a more rock outfit.. quite dynamic, using lotsa settings on the zoom, from ambient washy echo stuff to heavy powerchords. I plugged the left side of the zoom into a powered floor monitor from my stage sound and the right into the PA (no stereo effects so didnt matter). The sound guy said it was about the best guitar sound he had had live for the cleanish effected stuff, still good but not great for the distortion (though I think that might have been my settings as much as anything).

and now Im also playing in a western swing kinda outfit, like Hot club of cowtown, if anyone knows them ( I didn't, they are way cool though, even though I'm not a country person...). The guitarist plays a vintage Gibson L5 through a vintage 30's Gibson amp. I really don't want to play my zoom through a powered monitor for this! (even though I could get a useable sound I'm sure).

I also have a big old Yamaha G100-115 II, which gets a lot of cred for a tranny amp, but its crapping out, and its sooooo heavy.

SOOOOO.... I am looking at new amps. I kinda thought the tech21 trademark 60 would be ideal, coz I'm not a tube snob, and it has cool features, its light, probably reliable... but there aren't any in my city that I can try. I'd have to buy one unheard, or pay $70 to get one shipped from another branch of the Rockshop to try... I really liked the boost switch on each channel, so i could have a clean sound and overdrive sound, and boost each a little for solos. and the emulated speaker out to go to a PA.

then I though something like a fender blues junior, so I could play a real amp with tubes...but do i want that? I dont want heavy, i dont want fragile, and I'm not that into blistering distortion, or blues based riffing stuff, thats just not my thing really. And thats where a lot of tube people seem to be coming from. I dont want to have to wind up the volume to reach some fragile balance of tone nirvana with the sag and the whole shooting match. I want to get easily reapatable sounds, at any volume level. good sounds of course.

I get so caught up in reading other peoples opinions, I want a reliable tranny amp like the tech1 with some nice features, then I hear people going on about tube amps and I think I gotta have one.

what do I want? people with lots of amp experience, help me here!

thanks
 
the dairy giant said:
still good but not great for the distortion (though I think that might have been my settings as much as anything).
Click to expand...


Nothing to do with your settings - if you want distortion, you need to push air. Period. I have never heard, and seriously doubt I will ever hear, a great distortion sound out of a digital device. If you want great distortion, you need a tube amp.

And YES, you want a real amp with tubes. You'll never know until you try it, but once you do you will know the difference, and you will love it.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
IMHO tubes are a must for the music you describe. Go with low watts and plan on mic'ing it through the PA. This will give you repeatability of tone at different volumes. Look for +/- 12 watts. The Blues Jr. is a good choice but there are a bunch of amps in this class. They all have their own personality. Even if you're not a big fan of reverb a little can make a big difference in a dead sounding room.

An electric guitar is the instrument AND the amp. Choosing an amp is an important decision. Take your time and enjoy the process. The right amp will improve not just your tone but your playing.
 
I played a solid state amp in my band for years, a Crate. I always had the bass maxed out on it; I felt like it never had any "warmth" or "punch", but more like blaring/screaming. I rarely played totally clean. I'd often turn the gain knob like 10% to try and get a smooth chimy distortion for major/minor chords/arpeggios. For heavy power chords/lead guitar, you could get really crunchy distortion sounds with it, and lots of feedback/sustain. But, that's not what you're looking for is it?

Now I have a tube amp, a Vox ac30. I really like it. You can dial in just how clean or dirty you want it to sound. And it seems to have more "punch" than the Crate. I like being able to play arpeggios with light distortion like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c28fin9mII

I have an MXR compressor pedal that I use as a boost for when I want a really sustaining lead solo sound. I get awesome feedback and my guitar player is always wondering why he can't get feedback like me. (he also has an ac30).

As long as the amp is loud enough, it will do the job for you. Especially when you've had an amp a long time, and you know it well, it's weakness/strengths, you figure out how to compensate and make it sound good. But, most guitar players want something that will inspire them and not just "do the job".

Sorry to say it, but it's the truth, you just gotta go try some amps out at the store.
 
For what it's worth:

If you're used to solid state wattage ratings, tube rating work differently. A 12 watt tube amp can give you some serious output.
 
Milnoque said:
For what it's worth:

If you're used to solid state wattage ratings, tube rating work differently. A 12 watt tube amp can give you some serious output.
Click to expand...


You got that right. I've heard good reports from the little 5W/3W Blackheart (Crate) Chinese made clone after doing the Allen Amp mod:
http://www.allenamps.com/blackheart.php

This little guy can keep up with a drummer, but for real gig work, you'd have to mic it through the PA. Then again, you'd get a real good sound, from a point to point hand wired tube amp for less than $500. That's hard to beat! :cool:
 
I don't want to dis... but I'm confused about how someone can get to a professional level of playing without becoming a gear head tone freak. Yeah you can hone technique on fake gear but your ear is not going to be satisfied. I play with kids who have the bomb gear, can't play well but they know how to make pleasing sounds. I was held back for years lacking good tone. I played but in the back of my mind I knew I could play better and was embarrassed to walk into a gig with my gear. It's like not having a case for your ax. I finally got a Fender Hot Rod Delux and a Gibson Les Paul. I am now officially a tone freak.
 
Strumbone said:
You got that right. I've heard good reports from the little 5W/3W Blackheart (Crate) Chinese made clone after doing the Allen Amp mod:
http://www.allenamps.com/blackheart.php

This little guy can keep up with a drummer, but for real gig work, you'd have to mic it through the PA. Then again, you'd get a real good sound, from a point to point hand wired tube amp for less than $500. That's hard to beat! :cool:
Click to expand...

Probably won't have enough clean headroom for his purposes.
 
I'm not sure what's available in the used market in NZ, but if you see a mid to late 1970's Music Man combo amp, you should check it out.

I'm not sure the Blues Jr. will have enough clean headroom for you, either -- I've got one, and I did some mods to it (including replacing the speaker with a Weber one) and I like it a lot, but it can't get too loud without some dirt (it does get loud, mind you, and the dirt sounds good, but I wouldn't want to use it for jazz or most country). If you consistently have the opportunity to mic it, as Milnoque says, then maybe it will work though -- keep it at lower volume and it stays clean. I also have to remember that I generally use high output pickups, which contribute to the dirt (until I turn'em down on the guitar) - yours may be different.

The newer production Fender tube amps of larger size will probably do it for you if you want to buy a new amp.
 
dogonjon said:
I don't want to dis... but I'm confused about how someone can get to a professional level of playing without becoming a gear head tone freak.
Click to expand...

Easy - they practice their guitar instead of looking at ads in magazines!

Believe it or not, I know quite a lot of guys like this. Amazing players who have no clue about equipment. I, sadly, am not one of those guys - I'm one of the guys they come to for advice on equipment!


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Ha! yes I was going to respond to that too! I'm not an amazing player but I'm OK. Also, I never had a lot of money for good gear. Also the last time a played in a band situation was in the 80's... everyone seemed to think tube amps were big old heavy out of date things... and lately I've played by myself, wrote songs and recorded them. I was always very happy with the sound of amplitube in my recordings. The song and the overall sounds going into an arrangement were more important than the holy grail tone. And talking of Tuck Andress, he doesn't use a guitar amp at all... so its a bit confusing

But I'm going to try some tube amps out at the local store today. See if i can pick up on the magic... Actually there's a peavey delta blues on our local version of ebay which looks kinda cool. Real tremelo sounds good...

but I would be keen to hear if anyone has an opinion whether a tube amp would markedly improve the tone I get from my guitar into the zoom pedal into the PA, for the jazzy duo I play in. here's a little recording from a gig, direct from the PA to my laptop. I think the tone is pretty warm and pleasing, and i cant really imagine it being heaps better that this...



thanks for your responses btw.
 
Tone is personal. Always let your ears be your guide. I have a very strong preference for tube amps but I don't have your ears or your fingers. Don't let me or anybody else dictate what sounds good to you. B. B. King plays a solid state amp for god's sake.

The Delta Blues is a fine amp. It's 30 watts though, so in many of the settings you described you may not be able to turn it up enough to get the full advantage of the tubes.
 
If you have access to an Orange amp, it'd probably cover everything you need (officially a HUGE fan of Orange now, and I don't even own one yet)
 
I'd go with a Fender or Fenderesque amp in the 30-40 watt range. You'll have plenty of headroom for the jazzier stuff, and if you turn up for the rock and blues, you'll have plenty of bite. If you want more dirt, quieter, looking into the Vox Custom Classics, they get rude a little earier, but still put out a reasonable clean tone.

Option 2: don't try to do it all. Get an Orange Tiny Terror for the aggressive stuff, and a Peavey Classic 30 or 50, or a Roland JC120 for clean work.
 
Nice playing on that track man :)
I have a peavey classic 30 this thing is a total workhorse been through a lotta rough rides and has never skipped a beat. And has beautiful clean tone with a nice spring reverb.
 
Milnoque said:
Probably won't have enough clean headroom for his purposes.
Click to expand...


Well, it can drive a 4 X 12 cabinet, and remember, these are tube watts and not solid state...five is plenty...you'd be surprised how loud they can be! Plus, as stated, you can always mic through the PA.
 
Strumbone said:
Well, it can drive a 4 X 12 cabinet, and remember, these are tube watts and not solid state...five is plenty...you'd be surprised how loud they can be! Plus, as stated, you can always mic through the PA.
Click to expand...

Have you tried it?

I guarantee you, even with a 4x12 the 5w amp wont be enough when you get on stage with a band and a drummer........:D You'll be a lot more comfortable with a Tiny Terror or some 20 watt TraynorYCV20WR or a Mesa Express.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top