What do real engineers think about home recording.

  • Thread starter Thread starter tjohnston
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LittleDog, I totally agree with you.
Smelly Fuzz you are totally right too.

My point(s) is that GEAR gives no one a reason to be a snob ever.

Lets leave the the audio world and go to street racing for a minute. I come from a place where the guys grow up with wrenches in their hands and can take apart and rebuild a car from age 12. These guys can go into a junkyard, find a $1k car and put another $5 - 10k worth of parts, paint, etc and make a car that will beat a Corvette in a 1/4 mile and still looks nice too. Sure they put alot more time and work into it, but in the end they don't get ridiculed because they used junkyard parts.

Why does it have to be different in the audio world. Quite frankly some very good recordings have been done with minmal gear that was inexpensive. Yet, for some reason they still get looked down upon?? Why? A good production is a good production.

Personally, if I was an engineer in a million dollar studio and I hear that some guy with a portastudio, VTB-1, and a couple 57's and a C-1 was making very good recordings, I would certainly want to meet this guy and talk to hom and congratulate him. Maybe I am just different.

Arrogance shouldn't occur anyway, but when a person is arrogant when the product they make is only slightly better, if any, than a person with lesser equipment that makes them an asshole. Period.

Beezoboy
 
Good expensive gear will enhance the sound of a recording but it wont necessarily improve the song. If the artist has the talent then the quality of the equipment (within reason of course) wont be such an important factor. With some artists the 'lo-fi' sound works with them, not against.
 
In my humble opinion if they choose to scoff and mock us then they've obviously lost touch with their own roots... the forgot where they came from. We may not have the desire to make this our life, but at some point these "professionals" new as much (or even less) than we do... so let them say what they will... chances are we're gaining experience some of them only wish they had... learning to do things the hard way is the best way to learn.

The opinions expressed in the previous statement do not neccesarily reflect that of this station or it's managers... stay tuned for The Simpsons Christmas Special following these brief messages...


- Tanlith -

"Eternal Noob"

Yes... it's true! I'm an Acid Pro Junkie!
 
Anyone who disses high class gear has probably never used any. You don't need high end stuff to make great music but you do need it to make great recordings.

I've heard home recordings that I thought sounded pretty damn good (and they usually used some pretty pricey stuff) but I've never heard a home recording that made me say 'wow, that's amazing'.
 
Yes thats true

I never heard a home recording that blew me away. Everything I have ever heard has been so cheap sounding. It is always obvious that it was recourded at home. Surf through some mp3.com stuff and you will see what I mean.
 
I'm a big fan of gear, don't get me wrong. Just check my monthly credit card statements...

But I would still think that the biggest advantages of the high end studio over the home studio, aside from the quality of musicians they are recording, would be the skill of the engineers and the quality of the room acoustics. And then you would have to include the quality of the recorded instruments.

After that comes recording gear. Gear quality is very important, but the other stuff is even more important.

It's kind of a chicken-and-egg discussion though, not really worth getting aggravated about. The fact is, most of the time the best engineers DO have access to the best gear, so it's fairly academic.
 
I havent been around too many pro engineers or mastering engineers, but of my limited expierence I would like the offer the following:

First of all, and it may sound eletist to some, but these guys are in a league of their own. Recording is their life. It's thier audio careers combined with expierence and expierments of 20,30 and 40 years. They know how to use the gear and just like you and me they have preferences. How many guys in here have been recording audio for more than 20 years in a commercial studio?

Secondly, the engineers I know of are around this all day. The last thing they want to do is walk into a home studio and be around it some more. I'm guessing thats why there are not more giving out advise on forums. One freind I know of never talks about work at home and spends most of his extra time sailing.

Geat gear can only get a person so far and for the extra money you expierence diminishing returns. You have to have a good song and someone with expierence to take advantage of that gear.
 
...Well, I showed them some CD's. They listen to it.

"Wow, Jaymz... it's totally great. Who's doing this ?"

"...Me."

"...realy ? (...sigh)... Where ?"

"...my home studio. Actualy, it's bassement room."

"...realy ? (...sigh)...Well, actualy it's not that great... you'll get better result in our studio. What do you think if I do it for you for $$$$$ bucks ?... well, that's excluding mastering off course... but you can... Jaymz???.... James...??? Where are you going ?"

:rolleyes:

:D
 
Yep. Nothing like good old (fictional) anecdotal evidence... but look at the bright side: if music doesn't work out you could always try dramatic writing...

I don't ever remember putting down someone else's work to try and get a client, except one time when someone asked me about mixing some tracks that were recorded with such a low level that the signal-to-noise ratio was unacceptable, so I suggested re-recording.

I can't say that I ever remember hearing other engineers slamming other people's work much either. The reason is, it's counterproductive. No one wants someone telling them they totally wasted their time and money. If an engineer is too negative about an in-progress project, chances are the client will go elsewhere to someone with a better attitude.

Of course, in any field of endeavor there will always be a few assholes. But they are definitely the minority. Maybe James needs to get around more and meet a better class of engineers. They're out there.

And for greggy i've got two words: Harvey Gerst. Unless you think he's not helpful enough... or not a real engineer.... (And I would submit there are many more like him).
 
Hrmmm... Good arguments on both sides... but I would rather stick with my home recording gear.

May not sound "Amazing" but it sounds natural. Lemme clarify that a little...

Guns & Roses... sound great on the CD,,, they do an amazing show live, but I've seen em in concert like 3 times and to be quite honest (in my opinion) They suck live... (Show's good - sound sux)

... basicly I'm saying this... I'm tired of A&R passing off great sounding CD's to promote crappy bands. A home recording's main advantage is this: if it sounds good... then odds are the musicians are good...

- in fact Bob Ezra (Promoted Kiss & Alice Cooper for awhile) once said (at a recording conference I attended) that he'd rather get a recording made in a garage than a studio. If it (the garage recording) sounds good then I know I can work with it to make it great. If you send me a studio recoding it's not a demo, but a master. Send me a demo. <-- (Not word for word, but 100% accurate to the message he was making)


... we've all witnessed the wonders of a great sound crew... (above example) but I like my music "real" not tweaked and prodded till it's been so basterdized that it sounds nothing like the artists themselves.

- Tanlith -
 
littledog said:
Maybe James needs to get around more and meet a better class of engineers. They're out there.
Click to expand...

:)
You right... most of them are hard to find. I've met 'em once or twice. Very very wise men who never says a word "bad" or "wrong" about other engineers work. They smile and say "...it's a good work. I never thought I would do this good in that situation..., but I think I'll put the lead vocals a few step in the front."

PS. And you're rigth about Harvey Gerst too, small size puppy... :cool:

;)
 
tanlith said:
Guns & Roses... sound great on the CD,,, they do an amazing show live, but I've seen em in concert like 3 times and to be quite honest (in my opinion) They suck live... (Show's good - sound sux)

... basicly I'm saying this... I'm tired of A&R passing off great sounding CD's to promote crappy bands. A home recording's main advantage is this: if it sounds good... then odds are the musicians are good...

Click to expand...

I completely understand your point of view, but I'm not sure it applies to every genre of music. And I'm betting there has been SOME recordings over the years that you have liked that you were not necessarily aware were unperformable.

For instance, back in the late 1960's, Bob Moog made a revolutionary (and top-selling) album called "Switched-On Bach". Back then, synthesizers were all monophonic, so there was no way that he could have performed the album "live", but it hardly invalidated the music or the concept.

A lot of folks never go to a concert, and to them the whole argument is moot. And I'm not sure that a fabulous sounding CD is less honest or musical just because it can't be recreated live.

I'm pretty sure the Beatles could not have performed "I am the Walrus" (among others) so it sounded exactly the way it was on the record. At least not easily. Yet it's one of my all time favorite Beatles songs, and I don't think that my admitting it is any kind of a moral or musical compromise.
 
DKMurphPr said:
I don't really care what other people think about what I do in the privacy of my own home.
Click to expand...

Hi,

I don't care what people think about what I do at home or in public...so long as I know that I am trying to do the right thing.

Years ago I had the opportunity to record in a very large, hi-priced studio...name not important. We were a small, but good, well-rehearsed group. BUT...we could afford only bare minimum time from the engineer. The recording was fair.

Later, we recorded in a small studio, doing similiar material...again, well-rehearsed. This time the engineer was just starting out, but was extremely dedicated. The recording turned out excellent.

Just a thought. Maybe the best results come from study, hard work, and dedication. Maybe.....quit worrying about what other people think, and enjoy your music. Listen to good advice, and reject the other.

J.
 
littledog said:
I completely understand your point of view, but I'm not sure it applies to every genre of music. And I'm betting ... etc ... etc....


Point taken.... :) But again I'd still rather have full atonomy over my home studio. And again I say this... many a band in many a genre were in the same boat as G&R ... good in the studio (where - with the financial backing - you can take the time to do 2 bazillion takes) and suck live... (Lets face it Axel can't sing to save his life!)

Basicly there's a lot of bands out there getting air time that more or less blow mouldy goats!

Don't mistake this for me claiming I'm the great one... I'd call myself average, but over the years i met and personally know some local musicians who are WAY better than most of the crap I hear on the radio... and they're live... no punch-ins or second / 3rd takes... these guys work as hard, or harder, than many of these tone-deaf twits on the radio getting million$$$ contracts... it's frustrating to see greatness wasting away...

- Tanlith -

www.djtanlith.com

Yes it's true!! I am an Acid Pro junkie!!
Click to expand...
 
It's all irrelevant anyway. How many of you think you even have a snowball's chance in hell of making it big?
 
Yea nobody here has really made it big. What its all about for me and some others is the fact that we did it ourselves. Todays society is full of helpless people. Its nice to create something on your own.In home recording you can take charge of your own art. You are saving money and you are in a way beating the system. If you can make a recording good enough to fool the average person into thinking that this is professional then you have done a good job. Secondly you can use your home studio to make better quality music than whats on the radio. Yes I did mean to say that! I dont mean that home recording equipment sounds better than world class because it doesnt. It seems that in pop music that drums, bass, and guitars exc. are just there for background music. You cant really hear any music its all just background and one loud vocal track. In a home studio you can breakaway from the mainstream and do what yo want with your sound.
Thats the home studio mentality and thats why a lot of us are doing this.
 
tjohnston said:
Secondly you can use your home studio to make better quality music than whats on the radio. Yes I did mean to say that! I dont mean that home recording equipment sounds better than world class because it doesnt. It seems that in pop music that drums, bass, and guitars exc. are just there for background music. You cant really hear any music its all just background and one loud vocal track. In a home studio you can breakaway from the mainstream and do what yo want with your sound.
Thats the home studio mentality and thats why a lot of us are doing this.
Click to expand...

Amen! Absodamnlutely!
 
I've seen a few neves and an api or two sitting in 'home recording studio basements'...same as the big boys....i agree on the point of the elitist attitude that will occasionally pop up in some wankers comments....but i look at it like this...this guy got a break somewhere,perhaps through his own hard work and dedication to his craft...but still, getting an attitude about ones accomplishments is a waste of grace...theres a hundred people with some talent that far excedes even the most obnoxious jackass whos 'gotten somewhere'...and we as a public may never get to experience the other special folks because they lack the knowledge or the drive to attain any status in their talent..or maybe is just not important to them...its just like having a lot of money...some people are really really nice and have more money than god...but you'd never know it...others are clawing and scrambling to get to the top and they develope a me me me attitude on the way up and injure a lot on their way...you build your own mountain to fall off of...i've heard a lot of very good recordings in a home studio...i've heard very good recordings in pro rooms...i've yet to hear one that didnt sound three times better after a quality mastering...home studio recordists listen! ...meet yourself a mastering engineer....strike up a conversation...get to know em...bite the bullet at the end of your sessions and get yourself a mastering of your stuff...its worth every nickle...you'll sound like the big boys.....really...
and littledog, dont you think if the beatles had wanted to play i am the walrus live there would have been the london philharmonic and twenty other musicians on the stage for that?!!they never had to scrimp on anything.....
 
Anyone who hates home engineers just because the're that type of engineer, aint even a "real" pro. hell, there not even "real" humenbeings!:mad: but a "real" engineer and a "real" humanbeing is someone one appresheates somebody for at least trying and giving it there all. ( where all just a bunch of perverted computer geeks, but we all can make some damn fine sounding music :D )


"really" :D


ZEKE

"I will make you eat sand!"
 
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