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tdukex
Man of the Muse
This is a pointless, pretentious, post-padder thread.
Say that three times real fast, and be done with it.
Say that three times real fast, and be done with it.
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littledog
New member
cavedog101 said:
maybe, but the songs where there is stuff played backwards, or where the musicians or singers are doing multiple parts and overdubs on the studio version cannot ever really be faithfully recreated as a "live" performance. I think the point is, who really cares? A great song and arrangement is just that, regardless of whether it is live or a studio production.
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schnoops
New member
Hi everybody, pro engineers or not, scoffers, etc...
Hi just wanted to say that home recording is the salvation and the future of music production, autoprod means freeness of expression and inventiveness, one day the big majors will have to reckon they're outa here, and if the sound's all right, that's not bad, what counts is the music, the spirit, and damn the high fidelity digital stuff 24/192....
fight for free non-commercial music, originality and musicality...
Hi just wanted to say that home recording is the salvation and the future of music production, autoprod means freeness of expression and inventiveness, one day the big majors will have to reckon they're outa here, and if the sound's all right, that's not bad, what counts is the music, the spirit, and damn the high fidelity digital stuff 24/192....
fight for free non-commercial music, originality and musicality...
tanlith
King of the Wicker People
djc said:
Depends on your definition of "make it big" - it's like any career... you set your own goals and stay with what fits YOU. To some making it big is doing a 5 yr tour of every major stadium on the planet... to others it's merely being able to make a full time living doing what they love most.
And exactly what do you mean by "How many of you" - are you inferring that YOU'VE already made it big? Or are you excluding yourself from us as a group simply because you have no intention of making it at all?? If your reasoning is the second mentioned than why are you even here???
We're here to support one another by sharing our experiences and woes. I come here to read and post... and by my second definition I've already "made it big" and had my 15minutes of fame... I'm just thinking of doing a little comeback.
- Tanlith -
www.djtanlith.com
Yes it's true! I'm an Acid Pro junkie!
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Beezoboy
Home Recording Guru
Originally posted by Zeke Sayer
Hooked on phonics worked for Zeke.
I do agree with you though buddy.
Beezoboy
Hooked on phonics worked for Zeke.
I do agree with you though buddy. Beezoboy
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wjgypsy
New member
Beezoboy said:Originally posted by Zeke Sayer
Hooked on phonics worked for Zeke.
Beezoboy
I told mom that she was just wasting her money on that phonics but noooo!
Women............
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Beezoboy
Home Recording Guru
Yeah for the price of that phonics crap you could buy another 57. Hey nice work on your newest song by the way. I heard it in the MP3 forum and liked it. I forget its name though. I know it is not the love song or whatever. Lavonia. . . man I am from Rabun county just above Toccoa. I live in Statesboro though now because I am in school at Georgia Southern. There are quite a few of us from Georgia on this forum.
Beezoboy
Beezoboy
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wjgypsy
New member
Glad you liked my song (Get Free) are you going to school for audio engineering? I'm hoping to do that but first i gotta get out of middle school
zeke
zeke
tanlith
King of the Wicker People
... F*CK 'EM!
- Tanlith -
(FYI: that was in response to the original question:
What do real engineers think about home recording.)
- Tanlith -
(FYI: that was in response to the original question:
What do real engineers think about home recording.)
pipelineaudio
Well-known member
Home studios are great in that they can allow an artist to develop their songs without worrying about money and a ticking clock. People with home studios that end up recording at a bigger studio usually end up with a MUCH better album than those who never heard themselves on tape before
they can be REALLY bad for all concerned ( including the whole field of home recording) when they put real studios out of business thru dishonest tactics.
Most of the techniques and skills you read about and learn for your home studios were invented in big studios. The technology is also very much " trickle down"
The bad chain of events is when a guy with a mackie and an adat and zero skill can charge a VERY low rate and get business that should have gone to another place...eventually the band realizes the crap situation but no longer has the money to go to a real place. You can say " well the crap place will go out of business", but that means nothing....now the crap place can sell their crap gear to an even crappier place for CHEAPER
viscious circle
I DO try and set up the smarter of my clients with their own home studios as much as I can. It actually creates a LOT more business for me in the long run.
they can be REALLY bad for all concerned ( including the whole field of home recording) when they put real studios out of business thru dishonest tactics.
Most of the techniques and skills you read about and learn for your home studios were invented in big studios. The technology is also very much " trickle down"
The bad chain of events is when a guy with a mackie and an adat and zero skill can charge a VERY low rate and get business that should have gone to another place...eventually the band realizes the crap situation but no longer has the money to go to a real place. You can say " well the crap place will go out of business", but that means nothing....now the crap place can sell their crap gear to an even crappier place for CHEAPER
viscious circle
I DO try and set up the smarter of my clients with their own home studios as much as I can. It actually creates a LOT more business for me in the long run.
tanlith
King of the Wicker People
pipelineaudio said:
Read it twice.... was there supposed to be a point in there somewhere?
I'll eloborate on my "F*CK 'EM" comment above...
I've brought my work to professional (or as you put it "a real place") studios before played some stuff that was recorded by my friend in his garage and got this response:
Hey! This is pretty good! I love the sound who recorded this for you? (ok - not rocket science here it was completely OBVIOUS he thought I was comming to record some tracks at his studio and he assumed what I was playing was recorded IN a "real place")
Before I answered I got: "The tech knows his stuff man."
When I proceeded to tell him where it was recorded he put on the breaks and started back peddling BIG TIME.
"Oh well, you know the sound's a but muddy and the distortion's off a little... " etc... etc... ...back peddle ...back peddle
Now I'm by no means saying that a professional studio has no place... it does... what I am saying is this:
Most "professional" studios that have an established clientel bought thier equipment 5-10 yrs ago... (The above example occured over 12yrs ago... and at that time the equipment in the studio was shall we say... OLD)
Well, in the past 5-10 years, through the wonders of the computer age and technology all that 10yr old equipment in your "professional" studios can now fit on my desktop. And even do more efficient and BETTER processing (in some cases).
Now the true test? I'd pit some of the "home studio tech: I've heard here agains some of your "professional" techs any day. I've heard stuff come from this place that's every bit as good and in my opinion (as a consumer) BETTER than some of the shit I've heard come out of "professional" studios...
... and while I'm on a rant lemme say this:
I'm sick and tired of my friends comming to me with shitty recordings from "professional" studios complaining to me that "They said they'd fix that guitar thing in the mix"
"Fix it in the mix" my ass... if they knew what the fuck they were doing they wouldn't need to BS like that.
Yo pipe... not all this rage is directed at you man
it just set me off and got me on a roll again. 
What pisses me off is that most (not just some, but the majority that I've met) most "professional" technicians that I've met started out with thier own garage or basement studio... and never took a single class in the subject ('course up untill recently there was no such thing as school for this sort of thing)
These jerks prowel around here trying to discourage us...
... sure... insult me... that'll make me come running to your studio for help... lemme say this... I'll NEVER set foot in a professional studio unless someone's holding a recording contract in thier hand. Even then... I'd probably turn to some of these guys to do a few tracks... simply because I LIKE the sound they make.
(alexpetty comes to mind...)
- Tanlith -
... more to follow when I see another arrogant post...
pipelineaudio
Well-known member
"Most "professional" studios that have an established clientel bought thier equipment 5-10 yrs ago... (The above example occured over 12yrs ago... and at that time the equipment in the studio was shall we say... OLD)
Well, in the past 5-10 years, through the wonders of the computer age and technology all that 10yr old equipment in your "professional" studios can now fit on my desktop. And even do more efficient and BETTER processing (in some cases).
"
do you really believe this stuff? If so, at guitar center they have some NEW behringers that sound better than 30 year OLD Neve's
are you Jack Ortman? New equipment is good old equipment is bad right?
A new computer compressor plugin sounds better than an OLD Fairchild hardware compressor right?
there are a LOT of terrible pro studios out there, but the majority of the guys you consider " Pro Studios" out there charging what seems like a lot, are in fact what we would call home or project studios. A REAL pro studio that puts out a bad sound will be history within a week. Sure some crap still gets thru but be honest and compare apples to apples.
Well, in the past 5-10 years, through the wonders of the computer age and technology all that 10yr old equipment in your "professional" studios can now fit on my desktop. And even do more efficient and BETTER processing (in some cases).
"
do you really believe this stuff? If so, at guitar center they have some NEW behringers that sound better than 30 year OLD Neve's
are you Jack Ortman? New equipment is good old equipment is bad right?
A new computer compressor plugin sounds better than an OLD Fairchild hardware compressor right?
there are a LOT of terrible pro studios out there, but the majority of the guys you consider " Pro Studios" out there charging what seems like a lot, are in fact what we would call home or project studios. A REAL pro studio that puts out a bad sound will be history within a week. Sure some crap still gets thru but be honest and compare apples to apples.
tjohnston
New member
yes thats thru. Thats why I decided to build a home studio. I went to a a crappy comercial studio not releazing what it was. I recorder 2 songs and paid my 300 dollars. I started researching the gear they had and found out it was just borderline gear in a nice lookiung studio. At first I was impressed because I was new to this. I thought wow a glass window vocal booth and a mixer.
Wow look at those nobs! The owner didnt want to talk about the gear because it was so low class. I mean lexicons cheap amature stuff. When they miked my guitar they just placed two micss in front of me and said ok go. Thats not what I want. I want to spend 3 hours getting the mic placement and sound just perfect. I have 3 jobs and work 75 hours a week. It is going to cost about 3500 for the gear I want. But I think its worth it. Besides being poor and broke and tired is fodder for good songs.
Wow look at those nobs! The owner didnt want to talk about the gear because it was so low class. I mean lexicons cheap amature stuff. When they miked my guitar they just placed two micss in front of me and said ok go. Thats not what I want. I want to spend 3 hours getting the mic placement and sound just perfect. I have 3 jobs and work 75 hours a week. It is going to cost about 3500 for the gear I want. But I think its worth it. Besides being poor and broke and tired is fodder for good songs.
Son of Mixerman
Mix Junior
The one bad thing about money is that it sometimes allows people to get into business venture in which they have no inherent ability or skills. There was a period where quite a few Seattle studio's popped up because band wre doing good in the clubs and couldn't really afford to spend too much time at Triad Studios or Lawsons Studios, $3000 a day corporate facilities is no place a for a demo. Lots of decent home, professional studios have stood the test of time and the choices increased, those who were good are still around, those who were not good went back to whatever they did before. Now again because of cheap digital technology we see again a rapid growth of people with lots of money and not any inherent ability or skill. So again I expect those who don't do well ,and don't generate repeat customers and don't expand that customer base from word of mouth, will end up going back to whatever they did before. People have no patience in learning, talent isn't a plug in, though autotune tries to be. I thinks its hard to distinguish professional from hobbiest when all we do is look at equipment lists. A pultec in the wrong hands is far more harmful than a Alesis 3630 in the right hands. Ive actually toured multi-million dollar facilites and interviewed engineers to see what they have to offer. Set up an appointment and ask to have some of the engineers material listened to, ask about equipment in the studio and how it works. If you test drive a $200 pair of monitors, why wouldn't you test drive a $1000 per day facility? Have the engineer come see you live shows or come to your home studio to help him understand what your goals are, he or she will have a better grasp on you and your music. Most of all, when dealing with large pro facilities, you must be serious and show some integrity. Keep your commitments. I have a vocalist coming in tomorrow that Ive spent 4 weeks with in various conversations educating him on the process and equipment, comforting him and his producer. He has been to several other bigger facilities but I gave him a demo disc of my work, metal to acapella and he wants me to engineer at my modest lil garage. Im not stealing business, Im earning it. Just like everyone else should. Ive worked in bigger studio's and seen clients walk away unhappy because of an engineers inability to please the client. Pro aint the size of the equipment list dudes, its the quality of the product.
Peace,
SoMm
I thinks its hard to distinguish professional from hobbiest when all we do is look at equipment lists. A pultec in the wrong hands is far more harmful than a Alesis 3630 in the right hands. Ive actually toured multi-million dollar facilites and interviewed engineers to see what they have to offer. Set up an appointment and ask to have some of the engineers material listened to, ask about equipment in the studio and how it works. If you test drive a $200 pair of monitors, why wouldn't you test drive a $1000 per day facility? Have the engineer come see you live shows or come to your home studio to help him understand what your goals are, he or she will have a better grasp on you and your music. Most of all, when dealing with large pro facilities, you must be serious and show some integrity. Keep your commitments. I have a vocalist coming in tomorrow that Ive spent 4 weeks with in various conversations educating him on the process and equipment, comforting him and his producer. He has been to several other bigger facilities but I gave him a demo disc of my work, metal to acapella and he wants me to engineer at my modest lil garage. Im not stealing business, Im earning it. Just like everyone else should. Ive worked in bigger studio's and seen clients walk away unhappy because of an engineers inability to please the client. Pro aint the size of the equipment list dudes, its the quality of the product.Peace,
SoMm
mbuster
New member
You know, the one thing I like best about my home recordings, is that they're mine. I am fully aware of my limitations, and the limitations of my gear. I would love to record my songs with a TRUE pro, just to hear what it could sound like in the hands of a master. But the fact is, I've got no money, definitely no label, hell I don't even have a band. Even if I did, I'm not sure I'd feel as personally involved with my songs. They wouldn't be as "mine" .The only thing I do have is the fact that, good or bad, Everything I record is ME. Everything I hear is ME. It's mine, all mine and if nobody ever hears anything I record, I'm still doing it because I love it. There's a lot more members on this BBS than are posting in this thread, and I'd be willing to bet a LOT of them feel the same way. So do most of us care what a real engineer thinks of us? Not so sure.
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moley
New member
mbuster said:
I agree with you there, Buddy.
pipelineaudio
Well-known member
"So do most of us care what a real engineer thinks of us? Not so sure."
well that was the question that was asked, so I answered. And you will most likely find that professional engineers at truly professional studios LIKE to deal with people who have home studios. In this case you usually have a much better prepared band who understands exactly where their strengths and weaknesses are.
" Set up an appointment and ask to have some of the engineers material listened to, ask about equipment in the studio and how it works. If you test drive a $200 pair of monitors, why wouldn't you test drive a $1000 per day facility?"
This is sage advice! I will bet that those who had a poor experience at a "pro" studio, didnt even see if the studio was capable of putting out a good product. They MUST be able to show you examples of their work. If the studio AND the engineer you work with DO put out good material, then most likely the band wasnt ready for an album, for any number of reasons. If the band had a home studio, they would have worked out what the problems were ahead of time.
Please tell me an example of a bad CD made at a place that has put out good ones, by the same engineer ( volume wars and the squashed crap trend notwithstanding).
well that was the question that was asked, so I answered. And you will most likely find that professional engineers at truly professional studios LIKE to deal with people who have home studios. In this case you usually have a much better prepared band who understands exactly where their strengths and weaknesses are.
" Set up an appointment and ask to have some of the engineers material listened to, ask about equipment in the studio and how it works. If you test drive a $200 pair of monitors, why wouldn't you test drive a $1000 per day facility?"
This is sage advice! I will bet that those who had a poor experience at a "pro" studio, didnt even see if the studio was capable of putting out a good product. They MUST be able to show you examples of their work. If the studio AND the engineer you work with DO put out good material, then most likely the band wasnt ready for an album, for any number of reasons. If the band had a home studio, they would have worked out what the problems were ahead of time.
Please tell me an example of a bad CD made at a place that has put out good ones, by the same engineer ( volume wars and the squashed crap trend notwithstanding).
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littledog
New member
Watch out for all those big bad nasty evil fat pro engineers out there who are just waiting to rip off our money by doing half-assed jobs, compromising our musical vision, and who basically won't do nearly the justice to our inspired projects as a home studio would...
Let's not forget to regale eachother around the campfire with all of our pro studio "horror stories".
(Naturally, there are no home studio horror stories... all those clients who have come to me to try and salvage audio disasters recorded in someone's $20/hour spare bedroom... hell, obviously those were figments of my jealous deluded imagination...)
And let's convince ourselves that pro skills, pro acoustics, and pro gear are way over-rated. We wouldn't want to have to raise the bar or have goals to aspire to in our own lives...
Pro engineers? Hardly better than used car salesmen or child porn distributers...
umm... that is, until we need some good advice...
"HEY HAAAAAARRRRRVEYYY! I NEED SOME HELP OVER HERE....!"
Let's not forget to regale eachother around the campfire with all of our pro studio "horror stories".
(Naturally, there are no home studio horror stories... all those clients who have come to me to try and salvage audio disasters recorded in someone's $20/hour spare bedroom... hell, obviously those were figments of my jealous deluded imagination...)
And let's convince ourselves that pro skills, pro acoustics, and pro gear are way over-rated. We wouldn't want to have to raise the bar or have goals to aspire to in our own lives...
Pro engineers? Hardly better than used car salesmen or child porn distributers...
umm... that is, until we need some good advice...
"HEY HAAAAAARRRRRVEYYY! I NEED SOME HELP OVER HERE....!"
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auburncatfish
New member
I don't think it's too complicated.
For the most part we're working against the pros, by cutting them out. They're working against us by making us come to them for "better" sound.
But the point of all this may be getting lost in gear and people and money. The point of all this is music, good music. What the human ear finds pleasing. I believe that a guy at home with average equipment, can make better music than a pro.
We can be relativistic about music real quick, by dismissing music bassed on mics and pre-amps and crap that doesn't have to do with the song. I think the key to a successful home recording project is to be simple. To embrace the fact that you're a home-recording musician and make it part of your sound.
We ARE more original than pros because we're rogues. We don't comply with the formula that sells, but we use our own that may or may not work.
Ah too much philosophy for today. Stay cool.
For the most part we're working against the pros, by cutting them out. They're working against us by making us come to them for "better" sound.
But the point of all this may be getting lost in gear and people and money. The point of all this is music, good music. What the human ear finds pleasing. I believe that a guy at home with average equipment, can make better music than a pro.
We can be relativistic about music real quick, by dismissing music bassed on mics and pre-amps and crap that doesn't have to do with the song. I think the key to a successful home recording project is to be simple. To embrace the fact that you're a home-recording musician and make it part of your sound.
We ARE more original than pros because we're rogues. We don't comply with the formula that sells, but we use our own that may or may not work.
Ah too much philosophy for today. Stay cool.
pipelineaudio
Well-known member
"For the most part we're working against the pros, by cutting them out. They're working against us by making us come to them for "better" sound."
sorry that you think everyone has to be against each other. For the most part my relationship with home studios is a mutually beneficial one, they work out what they can at home and they come to me for the parts they cant. Oh wait you have a studios worth of different tape format and every single mic and mic pre in a normal studio at home? Translateable control room too ?
" The point of all this is music, good music. What the human ear finds pleasing. I believe that a guy at home with average equipment, can make better music than a pro. "
yup studios arent about MAKING music, music can be made MUCH better at home. Studios are for RECORDING music, into a form that translates well to a wide variety of venues and playback sources. This is where the home studio usually falls flat, though Im sure there are exceptions
"I think the key to a successful home recording project is to be simple. "
the key to a succesful recording PERIOD is to keep it simple. At home you may not be able to do that as many times you have to pass thru all in wonder boxes that complicate the signal chain unnecessarily
"We ARE more original than pros because we're rogues. We don't comply with the formula that sells, but we use our own that may or may not work."
if you believe this crap you are INSANE. So none of the techniques you use were made by Pros? They never thought up anything? You original guys at home thought up multitrack recording, ribbon mics, condenser mics, tube amplifiers, M/S micing, synthesized reverb, FX, etc?
cool
There ARE pros that stick to formula's, they are called " interns" and a few more that everyone else in the industry refers to as " flavor of the month" I suspect that there are many many many many many many many times more home guys sticking to formulas than pros
sorry that you think everyone has to be against each other. For the most part my relationship with home studios is a mutually beneficial one, they work out what they can at home and they come to me for the parts they cant. Oh wait you have a studios worth of different tape format and every single mic and mic pre in a normal studio at home? Translateable control room too ?
" The point of all this is music, good music. What the human ear finds pleasing. I believe that a guy at home with average equipment, can make better music than a pro. "
yup studios arent about MAKING music, music can be made MUCH better at home. Studios are for RECORDING music, into a form that translates well to a wide variety of venues and playback sources. This is where the home studio usually falls flat, though Im sure there are exceptions
"I think the key to a successful home recording project is to be simple. "
the key to a succesful recording PERIOD is to keep it simple. At home you may not be able to do that as many times you have to pass thru all in wonder boxes that complicate the signal chain unnecessarily
"We ARE more original than pros because we're rogues. We don't comply with the formula that sells, but we use our own that may or may not work."
if you believe this crap you are INSANE. So none of the techniques you use were made by Pros? They never thought up anything? You original guys at home thought up multitrack recording, ribbon mics, condenser mics, tube amplifiers, M/S micing, synthesized reverb, FX, etc?
cool
There ARE pros that stick to formula's, they are called " interns" and a few more that everyone else in the industry refers to as " flavor of the month" I suspect that there are many many many many many many many times more home guys sticking to formulas than pros