vocal preamp upgrade

  • Thread starter Thread starter jaz49
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Mike Keith said:
IM not sure why people consider the RNP to be even mid level...
It has its place...
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A perfect example of what I was talking about. When this pre came out so-called experts and reviewers were falling over themselves writing great reviews of it. Other people tell me it's barely a step up from a DMP3 you can get on ebay for $159 new. No wonder I'm confused.:confused:

I'd prefer clean and transparent. If I want color I can add it with plug ins. I have some very good ones for that.
 
RRuskin said:
With respect to the RNP, I beg to differ. The RNP is a great mic preamp and is in a whole different league than the ART or anything else in it's price range.

In the spirit of full disclosure: I am an authorized FMR dealer but I wouldn't be if the products weren't good enough to use on my own productions.
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A lot of experienced AE's would agree with you, I think. But then again a lot would disagree. Confusing...yes it certainly is! :D
 
jaz49 said:
I'd prefer clean and transparent. If I want color I can add it with plug ins. I have some very good ones for that.
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+1 You can aways add it later, but you can't clean if it is tracked that way.
Mic pre with color are great to have if you already have clean ones.

As to the statements of the lower end mic pres, there are a couple out there that can be modified to become very decent pres. You really won't know the differences until you have used a higher end pre for awhile, them come back to the lower end. Training your ears what to listen for is what will help you choose the gear that works best for you.
 
I posted a shoot out of my three vocal mics run through the Aphex 107 pre over on the Gearslutz low end forum. Here's the link... if anyone has a couple of minutes to spare, let me know what you think of the mics...and the pre, too: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end-theory/383648-heil-pr35-vs-ev-re-10-vs-at3035-winner.html

A guy PM'd me and told me I shouldn't be using so much gain on the pre.
I'm using over 60dB on the Aphex pre with the two dynamic mics, because I have a pretty laid back speaking(singing as well) voice. He told me to forget upgrading the pre and treat the room first...and learn to sing/speak louder so I don't have to use so much gain. I don't know about that part...I'm too used to singing the way I do. It's an untreated room and you can hear that in the track...mostly with the condenser mic though. Any feedback is most welcome.
 
jaz49 said:
I posted a shoot out of my three vocal mics run through the Aphex 107 pre over on the Gearslutz low end forum. Here's the link... if anyone has a couple of minutes to spare, let me know what you think of the mics...and the pre, too: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end-theory/383648-heil-pr35-vs-ev-re-10-vs-at3035-winner.html

A guy PM'd me and told me I shouldn't be using so much gain on the pre.
I'm using over 60dB on the Aphex pre with the two dynamic mics, because I have a pretty laid back speaking(singing as well) voice. He told me to forget upgrading the pre and treat the room first...and learn to sing/speak louder so I don't have to use so much gain. I don't know about that part...I'm too used to singing the way I do. It's an untreated room and you can hear that in the track...mostly with the condenser mic though. Any feedback is most welcome.
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Don't agree with the gain being too much, use as much as you need...
Room treatment is important..
 
Something else has been bugging me about my recording set up and I haven't got a definitive answer yet from anyone. I run the Apex pre into the line input (actually it has the three way inputs that accept line, mic, or instrument level) of the emu 0404. I set the gain on the 0404 to unity. I'm wondering if the signal from the Aphex pre is bypassing the pre on the 0404 interface....or is the 0404 pre coloring the sound somewhat. It's puzzling because the sound is pretty much identical whether I plug the mic into the Aphex and go from that into the emu, or just plug the mic directly into the emu input and cranking the gain to 60dB on that. Shouldn't the Aphex pre sound better than the interface pre? The 107 originally sold for over $500 when new (2channels) The emu 0404 was two hundred for 2 channels plus midi.

As far as the room...yeah, I will try singing facing an open clothes closet to take out some of that. One AE from Gearslutz.com told me I'm probably getting comb filtering that's coloring the sound. So, I will definitely look into some more room treatment.
 
jaz49 said:
As far as the room...yeah, I will try singing facing an open clothes closet to take out some of that. One AE from Gearslutz.com told me I'm probably getting comb filtering that's coloring the sound. So, I will definitely look into some more room treatment.
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Not everyone can have a dedicated room...I have to compromise and my tracking room doubles as a home theatre...it helps me to justify the expense of room treatments...the Home theatre equipment is housed in the control room...the DLP projector...the reciever...everything is piped out of there so I wont have projector noise...this works out nicely...especially since I also do video editing with the studio computer.

The thing is my studio is a studio/theatre...and maybe somehow you can intragrate something so a bedroom isnt your studio.
 
jaz49 said:
I don't know much about the True, but FWIR, the Grace m101 is the best of the single channel pres in the $500 range. Both however, are outside of my budget. I've really got to check out that GoldenAge pre though. I think it's like $350 new.
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funny what people say. yes, it's the best neutral clean uber low noise preamp you can get for that price or almost any price.

is that what you want? transparent perfection? for me, "vocal" preamps are not neutral at all. api and it's variants are not neutral, quite a midrange push on some models. that's what I love for vocals. the mpa gold does some of that too for relatively cheap which is why I love the mpa gold. the grace is pristine. it sounds like the ultimate recreation of a focusrite green or platinum (very accurate, very prisitine, what you put in is what you get out). for the record I like focusrite platinum but find it very overpriced and again, very very clean and almost scooped sounding compared to something like an art mpa gold.

vocals = mid push imho. mpa gold, api and variants. don't know much in the mid price range that does it though, I'm sure there are other examples. just look for a preamp with some mid push. the grace is NOT my choice for vocals unless I'm ready to eq in the mix. amazing technology, just that it sounds so neutral I'm afraid you'll find very little change overall in the tone from your stock pres. it's just really perfect though and uber low noise and low in all other artifacts.

cheers
Don
 
i agree with fishmeds "sidegrading" comment with this sort of budget. it'll probably be best to save and get something in the $800 range. but then again if all you're doing is home demo recordings maybe money could be better spent in something else. do you have bongos yet? :)
 
Are you implying that unless you spend like $800 (per channel?) on a preamp you can't make some seriously good recordings? If you are I would strongly disagree. A guy just posted a link on one of the Gearslutz forums to a tune he did with a cheap MXL tube mic plugged into a Fostex digital recorder. It's AMAZING...totally amazing song and performance...way better than lots of commercially done stuff I've heard that was done in big studios with 100,000 bucks worth of gear. I've also heard some great stuff done with the ART MPA with upgraded tubes...that's under $200 per channel including the price of the tubes. It's not just the gear...it's the performance and the song...and the production. I'm not implying you will get a high quality recording with a radio shack mic and a behringer mixer. But decent low end gear in the hands of a talented artist can make some seriously good music....and the converse is true....high end gear won't do anything for you if the song and performance is mediocre or worse. Just my $.02, for what it's worth.
 
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jaz49 said:
Are you implying that unless you spend like $800 (per channel?) on a preamp you can't make some seriously good recordings? If you are I would strongly disagree. A guy just posted a link on one of the Gearslutz forums to a tune he did with a cheap MXL tube mic plugged into a Fostex digital recorder. It's AMAZING...totally amazing song and performance...way better than lots of commercially done stuff I've heard that was done in big studios with 100,000 bucks worth of gear. I've also heard some great stuff done with the ART MPA with upgraded tubes...that's under $200 per channel including the price of the tubes. It's not just the gear...it's the performance and the song...and the production. I'm not implying you will get a high quality recording with a radio shack mic and a behringer mixer. But decent low end gear in the hands of a talented artist can make some seriously good music....and the converse is true....high end gear won't do anything for you if the song and performance is mediocre or worse. Just my $.02, for what it's worth.
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Jaz,

You have misunderstood our point; all we are stating is that unless you increase your budget, you really are not going to be upgrading from what you already have. If your budget is tight, we hate to see you have buyer's remorse. We have been there and done that.

Performance and song writing is totally different from gear. You can have the most expensive gear, but unless the music you are recording is crap, then all you have is a high polished turd.

You are doing good with your research though. There is so much to learn about recording.
 
Your point is well taken Fishmed. I'm still trying to decide whether an ART MPA with upgraded tubes...or even a rane ms1b... for clean and clear...would be a noticeable improvement over the emu 0404 pres. The Aphex 107 is definitely NOT. I just did another shoot out and my mics actually sound as good or better with the emu interface pres. But, I probably misread greyharmonix's point. I took his comment to mean that if you don't have $800 to spend you are wasting your time...unless you are just doing home demo kind of stuff.
 
Another option we have not mentioned yet, Jim Wiliams of Audio Upgrades does a great job in doing wonders with mic pres.

I have two Symetrix SX-202 mic pres that he upgraded. These pres are considered "Low End" ($100 to $150 used) without mods. After having them mod'ed, I doubt I will ever part with them. He does a great job. It would not cost you anything to inqure with him to see what he can do with your Aphex 107.
 
i was just comparing the pres he had vs the pres he wants to get and the difference between a $200 pre and a 4-500 pre isn't that huge of difference. with a few exceptions (rnp and EH tube mic pre come to mind) but lets say if you were to spend the money on a focusrite isa 1 THAT is a jump up imo.

Honestly i'd never spend that kind of money on gear for a home studio. i've been using this stuff at another actual legit studio.
 
greyharmonix said:
i was just comparing the pres he had vs the pres he wants to get and the difference between a $200 pre and a 4-500 pre isn't that huge of difference. with a few exceptions (rnp and EH tube mic pre come to mind)
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O.K. that's what I'm trying to get at. Would a RNP or EH tube pre...or ART MPA...upgraded...be a noticeable difference? Or would the difference be so subtle that most people wouldn't notice it unless they really made an effort? I've only got a simple home studio, but I'm trying to get a few songs ready to submit to Pump Audio or possibly Taxi. I'll probably upload some raw vocal takes that I did with a couple of dynamic mics and an AT3035 condenser tonight just plugged into the emu interface. Maybe someone can tell me if a gear upgrade would make a noticeable difference in sound quality...but within my budget... which is more in the area of an MPA or EH than a Grace.
 
jaz49 said:
O.K. that's what I'm trying to get at. Would a RNP or EH tube pre...or ART MPA...upgraded...be a noticeable difference? Or would the difference be so subtle that most people wouldn't notice it unless they really made an effort? I've only got a simple home studio, but I'm trying to get a few songs ready to submit to Pump Audio or possibly Taxi. I'll probably upload some raw vocal takes that I did with a couple of dynamic mics and an AT3035 condenser tonight just plugged into the emu interface. Maybe someone can tell me if a gear upgrade would make a noticeable difference in sound quality...but within my budget... which is more in the area of an MPA or EH than a Grace.
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Of those listed, I would go with an ART MPA Gold or the digital version for $100 more and use its digital converters, bypassing any other analog issues. At least with those pres you can get a range of differnt tubes to find the ones that work best for you; plus changing tubes is something that you can do and undo at home.
 
there are just soooooo many variables as to what pre would suit someone's need the best. everything mentioned on this thread has merit, but at the same time who knows what would work best for you. i'd say just go with you gut and whatever you get i'm sure you'll find use for.

that being said i really like the EH mic pre for the money. but rnp has alot of gain which can be useful.

use the force.
 
greyharmonix said:
there are just soooooo many variables as to what pre would suit someone's need the best. everything mentioned on this thread has merit, but at the same time who knows what would work best for you. i'd say just go with you gut and whatever you get i'm sure you'll find use for.

that being said i really like the EH mic pre for the money. but rnp has alot of gain which can be useful.

use the force.
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Just avoid Behringer Mic Pres at all costs. :eek: (had to go there!) :D
 
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