Vocal Ideas/Tricks in the Mix

[makeasound]

Within the mix there are many things you can do to make vocals stand out and have a certain sound(through eq., layers, doubling, nudging, etc.). I am interested in all of your ideas and techniques regarding recording vocals please let me know. However, what I am really interested in is within the mix, I have done some reading, about a pyramid, vocals being the focal point. I have been to school for recording arts however this concept is still not yet clear to me. I know it has to do with eq. and thats pretty much the extent of my knowledge. Like I said flood the gates with posts about all of your vox techniques and thoughts along with your knowledge of the great pyramid. I long to build such a pyramid!!!!!!!! Thanks all! Dave.

 

[NYMorningstar]

Yeah, I haven't sung at a pyramid in awhile but you have a point there.

 

[Micter]

Vocals and EQ shouldn't be in the same sentence. Compression, volume and panning are what will make your vocals sit right in the mix. Maybe some reverb.

 

[IronFlippy]

I usually try to get the vocals in as early as I can, and then add everything else after it. This way you're working around them, making them the focal point of the song. That is, assuming that the vocals ARE the focal point.

 

[warlock110]

Vocals and EQ shouldn't be in the same sentence. Compression, volume and panning are what will make your vocals sit right in the mix. Maybe some reverb.

stupid question, i mostly record vocal as mono, can u pan mono track? or does it have to be in stereo? also i've never tried panning anything before, which tool do u use to do it?

 

[makeasound]

stupid question, i mostly record vocal as mono, can u pan mono track? or does it have to be in stereo? also i've never tried panning anything before, which tool do u use to do it?

You can pan a mono audio track. Left or right. It depends on what program you are using you can use the pan tool which will give you a line diagram within the audio track itself allowing you to automate the panning or you can use the mixing board or window to select different pannings for single tracks and you can also pan stereo tracks!!

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Anyone else think Vocals and EQ dont belong in the same sentance or am I totally wrong here in asking this question

You're not wrong in asking the question, but as you are asking a mixing question, you might get a better response in the Mixing/Mastering forum. But since you're already here, and you'd probably get razzed even worse for double-posting, let's deal with what you got.

The question is such a general one, I'm not even sure just what kind of an answer you're expecting. I don't mean that to be nasty. It depends on where you are now and where you want to wind up. Can't give directions on how to get from A to B unless we know where A and B actually are and what kind of transportation you have at your disposal.

First off, you need to identify what kind of music you're talking about. How to deal with Dylan's vocals is different than how to deal with Johnny Rotten's vocals. Then the next question is what kind of production style are you looking for? How to deal with Dylan's vocals depends on whether you're looking to produce "Watching The River Flow" or "Love Sick". And so on.

Included in this thought process is determining whether - as mentioned before - the song wants to revolve around the lyrics, the vocalist, the energy, the mood, the arrangement, or some particular conglomerate of these. Is it a smooth ballad or a hard-driving anthem? And speaking of the arrangement, what instruments will the vocals be competing with and how do you want to set up the L-R, front-to-back soundstage? Where do the vocals fit in with this?

Bottom line: Plan out in your head broad strokes at the very least just how you want the production to sound when you're done with it. Ask and answer those questions. Then when you have those answers, you'll know where your destination is and be able to ask (if you even need to at that point) just what the rest of us would do to get there.

G.

 

[Micter]

Vocals can always be eq'd and should be to fit in the mix if everything else is. If not they will sound out of place is what I've found! Anyone else think Vocals and EQ dont belong in the same sentance or am I totally wrong here in asking this question since the first two posts I've recieved quite promtly but very arrogant and un-helpfully have been B.S.

Arrogant? I just told you very politely that EQ on vocals isn't the best way to get them to sit right in the mix. If you know so much why are you asking for help?

 

[Micter]

stupid question, i mostly record vocal as mono, can u pan mono track? or does it have to be in stereo? also i've never tried panning anything before, which tool do u use to do it?

You can pan a mono track. I don't know what you are using to record with so I can't advise on how to pan as each system is just a bit different. Usually its a knob labeled "pan"

 

[makeasound]

Arrogant? I just told you very politely that EQ on vocals isn't the best way to get them to sit right in the mix. If you know so much why are you asking for help?

Im sorry I was a little on edge after the first comment recieved. I realize that EQ isn't the answer to everything. I do appreciate all of your posts and I shouldnt have written this to you please do accept my sincere appology.

 

[Micter]

Im sorry I was a little on edge after the first comment recieved. I realize that EQ isn't the answer to everything. I do appreciate all of your posts and I shouldnt have written this to you please do accept my sincere appology.

Apology accepted and I'll actually give you some positive feedback.

 

[warlock110]

You can pan a mono track. I don't know what you are using to record with so I can't advise on how to pan as each system is just a bit different. Usually its a knob labeled "pan"

wait, the mono track has to output as stereo in order for you to pan it, if it comes out as just left or right, then u can't pan it (not sure if that's correct)

i'm trying to learn how to use cubase, and i can pan mono track that's outputting as stereo, i can pan stereo tracks, but i haven't been able to pan individual channel of the stereo tracks, and that's quite annoying, the book i read told me that it's possible to pan each channel of the stereo track.

quote from the book:
for lead vocal: pan the left channel @ 10 oclock and the right channel @ 2 to get a wider stereo spread.


NVM i got it, weird lol. So here's how it work.
1 mono track Output to stereo will be able to pan left/right
1 mono track Output to mono as left/right will not be able to pan
1 stereo track with both channel left/right output as stereo will be able to pan left/right and it'll do it to both channel
1 stereo track with 1 channel (not even sure how this work, but i was able to create a stereo track and put 1 of the stereo channel in there) will be able to pan left/right even when u output it as LEFT or RIGHT only.

strange but i guess that's what the book meant, is to have stereo split 2 channel into 2 track, and then pan each of them.

 

[makeasound]

wait, the mono track has to output as stereo in order for you to pan it, if it comes out as just left or right, then u can't pan it (not sure if that's correct)

i'm trying to learn how to use cubase, and i can pan mono track that's outputting as stereo, i can pan stereo tracks, but i haven't been able to pan individual channel of the stereo tracks, and that's quite annoying, the book i read told me that it's possible to pan each channel of the stereo track.

quote from the book:
for lead vocal: pan the left channel @ 10 oclock and the right channel @ 2 to get a wider stereo spread.

Right. Now being unfamiliar with cubase as I use pro tools mostly and reason and so on... I would think that there would be a bus and or sends probly both right??? Im not sure if that would have anything to do with them. For all of your mono audio tracks did you set up one master stereo fader? Thats what I do within pro tools. For instance 12 individual mono tracks.. and 1 stereo master fader! Try it out let me know

 

[makeasound]

Yeah, I haven't sung at a pyramid in awhile but you have a point there.

I should apologize to you too ny. I guess I wasnt expecting my thread to have a joke as the first post. Im sorry this should be a fun as well as informing site. Sorry to all for the nasty comments and to you as well NyMorningstar!

 

[Micter]

wait, the mono track has to output as stereo in order for you to pan it, if it comes out as just left or right, then u can't pan it (not sure if that's correct)

i'm trying to learn how to use cubase, and i can pan mono track that's outputting as stereo, i can pan stereo tracks, but i haven't been able to pan individual channel of the stereo tracks, and that's quite annoying, the book i read told me that it's possible to pan each channel of the stereo track.

quote from the book:
for lead vocal: pan the left channel @ 10 oclock and the right channel @ 2 to get a wider stereo spread.


NVM i got it, weird lol. So here's how it work.
1 mono track Output to stereo will be able to pan left/right
1 mono track Output to mono as left/right will not be able to pan
1 stereo track with both channel left/right output as stereo will be able to pan left/right and it'll do it to both channel
1 stereo track with 1 channel (not even sure how this work, but i was able to create a stereo track and put 1 of the stereo channel in there) will be able to pan left/right even when u output it as LEFT or RIGHT only.

strange but i guess that's what the book meant, is to have stereo split 2 channel into 2 track, and then pan each of them.

I think you are missing something. You can pan a mono track in cubase.

Here's a screen shot of the mixer section.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec04/images/cubase1.l.jpg

note the short line at the top of each channel. These are all set to "C" which means center or zero with one exception that is panned hard left. Moving the line will move the tracks panning position.

 

[warlock110]

I think you are missing something. You can pan a mono track in cubase.

Here's a screen shot of the mixer section.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec04/images/cubase1.l.jpg

note the short line at the top of each channel. These are all set to "C" which means center or zero with one exception that is panned hard left. Moving the line will move the tracks panning position.

that's because it's outputting as stereo, the 2 box where it says "ASIO" is where u choose to output it as mono or stereo, if u do it as mono u can't pan it.

 

[NYMorningstar]

I should apologize to you too ny. I guess I wasnt expecting my thread to have a joke as the first post. Im sorry this should be a fun as well as informing site. Sorry to all for the nasty comments and to you as well NyMorningstar!

Hey man, no problem and welcome to the BBS

 

[tango]

that's because it's outputting as stereo, the 2 box where it says "ASIO" is where u choose to output it as mono or stereo, if u do it as mono u can't pan it.

So, yes you can have a mono track feeding a mono bus (track outputs as mono) and there is no pan available. But, assuming that mono bus goes into a stereo mix at the end then the panning has to happen when that mono bus is fed into the stereo mix.

One example of why you may do this... You have multiple mono tracks which represent alternate takes of a vocal and connect all the outputs to a mono bus. You use gain automation to 'comp' the tracks, i.e. select the best bits of each to produce a complete performance. Then on mono bus you add any effects and pan as necessary as the output goes into the main (stereo) bus. This was you only run one copy of any plugins you use for the vocal rather than one copy per take and also have a single fader that controls the level of the comp'ed vocal rather than fiddle with each take individually.

 

[chessrock]

I have done some reading, about a pyramid, vocals being the focal point. I have been to school for recording arts however this concept is still not yet clear to me.

I think you should try and get your money back.

Um ... yea. You got a song, and vocals are kind of the focal point of everything. They kinda' sit out front in center. This isn't really an overly-complex thing. I think you're getting taken in by some corny jargon regarding pyramids.

.

 

[TerraMortim]

Vocals and EQ shouldn't be in the same sentence. Compression, volume and panning are what will make your vocals sit right in the mix. Maybe some reverb.

There's nothing wrong with eqing vocals...as long as it's very subtle, and not used as the primary tool for any purpose... but I usually add a slight EQ curve to my vocals. But yah...EQ is simply overused.