Vocal Gating inq .....

B

Bstage

New member
I just got the Waves Vox and de-esser plugin yesterday and started to play with the sliders a bit.. Quick questions.. The compression settings seem very high.. I mean I can squash at 25:1 with much less distortion than any other compressor I have used before... The setting around 1-7:1 seemed more in my range... Seemed a lil wierd

I have Sonar 2.1XL.. Would tracking with this plugin be a bad idea.. Sonar has the option to record dry with adding the effect while tracking without losing the original take... Good or bad idea?? I have an RNP/RNC combo as well.

Last inq.. Where should I gate male rap vocals at using this plugin... I have a MXL V67G and a AKG C4000B Booth is 6X3.5 with pop screen......

Thanks..

Brad
 
i track with nuendo 2.1 and mainly produce r&b and hiphop

while tracking i use

1)Waves Rcomp Mono
2)Waves C1 gate mono

i track with those 2 plugins b/c i don't have my RNC yet.. and i don't have a outboard gate.. works great.. while tracking i use a fast attack and a release around 75-100

i just use a 2:1 ratio
3db gain
and i adjust the threshold ...

now you said you just got waves vox and deesser.. they don't come one by one last time i checked.. i have the platinum bundle with the 4.3 waveshell..

waves vox...Are you talking about Waves RVOX?
and which deesser are you using, there's 2...

if you have a RNC i wouldn't even worry about tracking with compression.. if you need more compression use the plugin as an insert..

as for male rap vox.. that all depends on your setup.. you noise levels, if the male rapper will get over the threshold you make etc.. i'd use the C1 gate mono if your gonna track with a gate not the gate in the Rvox.. the c1 is a betetr gate..
 
Ya its RVOX....

The de-eser was included with the Renn Bass and the RenVox...

I was thinking of chaining in the RNC for some light compression to tame the signal then piping in the Ren vox for the meaty compression later... Is this overdoing it?? or should I just be tracking with the Ren Vox into Sonar... I tried it last night and the vocals sounded pretty thick.... The gate seemed to work nicely around the noise level of the mic with silence..... Anywhere between 1.5 and 4ratio seemed not too compressed...The output level usually sat around zero or -4, -6 Now I am looking at my RNC wondering if it is still of value with this new plugin...
 
you must have the Renaissance bundle..ok

do you happen to have the gold bundle? the C1 gate is much better.. and the comp of the Rvox.. its cool.. but i find that Rcomp sounds better.
try Renaissance channel
 
Bstage said:
The compression settings seem very high.. I mean I can squash at 25:1 with much less distortion than any other compressor I have used before... The setting around 1-7:1 seemed more in my range... Seemed a lil wierd
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that when compressing at ratios higher than 10:1 you are limiting. When you said you can compress more with less distortion, why were you getting distortion? With proper settings or a compressor you shouldn't be getting distortion, at least I've never had that problem. The default setting in those compressors are just guidelines for specific applications in most cases.

Bstage said:
I have Sonar 2.1XL.. Would tracking with this plugin be a bad idea.. Sonar has the option to record dry with adding the effect while tracking without losing the original take... Good or bad idea?? I have an RNP/RNC combo as well.
Click to expand...

Basically I stay away from things that can't be undone. If it's not processing the file itself then go for it. If so I wouldn't suggest it.

Bstage said:
Last inq.. Where should I gate male rap vocals at using this plugin... I have a MXL V67G and a AKG C4000B Booth is 6X3.5 with pop screen......
Click to expand...

Is there a reason your gating the vocal?

sonicpaint
 
I don't see the point in tracking with a plugin compressor. You aren't guarding against digital overs since the compressor is after the digital conversion and you are just limiting (pun intended) your options during mixdown.

There is really no reason to gate vocals unless you have a lot of ambient noise and even then your better off dealing with the noise first. If there are long passages of no vocal then just cut that part out of the vocal track.
 
Great responses guys..

Im thinking the RNC will keep the levels relatively tame around -6.. Then add only 1-2 db's of Compression with the Ren Vox after.. I think this will fatten the RNC's clean output and offer more meat for me...

Your right on the peaking.. I realized that I could not control any of the peaking realizing the effect was heard but not applied to the original signal.... (So my RNC is more important than previously thought)...

Would using two comprssors before the final mix cause audible distortion.... Tracking (RNC) 2-3 db's Then adding Ren Vox to that signal via my Aux channel 1... 2-3 ratio on comp???

Would gating only up to the mic noise floor become a problem????
 
I find that with gating you always run the risk of cutting off a little bit of a word. I just ride faders (or more appropriately, mouse clicks) in the editing stage. BTW, I believe many people compress vocals during tracking and also during mixing.
 
i've gated vox for year.. i have no noise so its not like i HAVE to.. i just like too.. i set my gates to where as it won't cut off a word or anything b/c the threshold is set at -55, fast attack and a quick release...
one thing about my booth and gating.. when tracking vox with akg240's..some music will bleed into the mic.. with the gate set it doesn't..;)

as for tracking with the Rcomp on.. it with out a doubt helps control loud vox and the comp is very transparent...let alone i just use a a ratio of 2 when tracking vox..so its not sounding over
compressed or anything..
either way i know the quality that i put out.. all my clients love it and i've very satisfied.. thats all that really maters.

o the ppl that do my mastering actually said my songs have sounded better with me tracking with rcomp and sometimes magneto...
 
Everyone has there own style.

I think everyone has their own thoughts to avoid things they don't want in their audio. I think the way your approaching things is in a manner that works for you and that is what matters. I don't see anything wrong with it.

As to where you should gate rap vocals is dependent on the signal to noise ratio or what threshold is needed to gate out what you don't want in the signal. With out a specific reason for using a gate and hearing what is to be gated I personally wouldn't use one. It would be guessing or assuming to give actual settings that would work well for rap vocals in general.

sonicpaint
 
Re: Everyone has there own style.

sonicpaint said:
I think everyone has their own thoughts to avoid things they don't want in their audio. I think the way your approaching things is in a manner that works for you and that is what matters. I don't see anything wrong with it.

As to where you should gate rap vocals is dependent on the signal to noise ratio or what threshold is needed to gate out what you don't want in the signal. With out a specific reason for using a gate and hearing what is to be gated I personally wouldn't use one. It would be guessing or assuming to give actual settings that would work well for rap vocals in general.

sonicpaint
Click to expand...

So the mic noise level would be a good start... Basiclly its hiss from the leaking noise from outside... I dont here any cuttoff of words so I suppose this is a goos starting point.... What program do you recommend for noise reduction???? Where you can sample the noise and reduce that by 10db??
 
c9-2001 said:
as for tracking with the Rcomp on.. it with out a doubt helps control loud vox and the comp is very transparent...let alone i just use a a ratio of 2 when tracking vox..so its not sounding over
compressed or anything..
Click to expand...

I'm sure that it certainly helps control the loud vox...but what's the point in doing it while you are tracking? If the signal is going to clip, it will have already done so before even reaching the compressor.

So why not give yourself more options later on regarding the compression settings and just record it dry?
 
trogdor said:
I'm sure that it certainly helps control the loud vox...but what's the point in doing it while you are tracking? If the signal is going to clip, it will have already done so before even reaching the compressor.

So why not give yourself more options later on regarding the compression settings and just record it dry?
Click to expand...

I am planning on using the RNC on the in channel... Supernice compression at 1-2 ratio... Otherwise the peaking will remain.. After beef up the signal with an extra 1-2 db's of compression with Ren Vox
 
Re: Re: Everyone has there own style.

Bstage said:
So the mic noise level would be a good start... Basiclly its hiss from the leaking noise from outside... I dont here any cuttoff of words so I suppose this is a goos starting point.... What program do you recommend for noise reduction???? Where you can sample the noise and reduce that by 10db??
Click to expand...

I don't think you would need to go as far as noise reduction, do you? I don't know if I understood right but you said you were using a gate to remove the bleeding of other instruments right? If so the gate should do just fine. Noise reduction can also be done with expansion but is the noise that bad? If so I'd be looking for the reasons as to why your signal noisy before anything else.

As to noise reduction you can find a good one in cooledit pro that works real well.

Good luck,
sonicpaint
 
my signal doesn't clip at all. its no where near it..
i just don't use an outboard comp at the moment.. i like the way the Rcomp sounds while tracking and thats what i use.. sometimes i'll track with or with out the gate.. its not 100% needed... i have no noise at all.. but i see with the gate i don't get the headphones picking up in the mic(mainly hi hats)

this weekend i did test with and with out the rcomp.. the rcomp sounds a little smoother. either way i go.. i have a very clean sounding setup
 
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