vintage guitar question

[trebles]

this is for anyone that is knowledgeable (never said i could spell) about vintage guitars and they're values. 2 questions: 1st... if you have an old collectable strat from the '60's that has been refinished in a different color from the original....does this make it worthless...and....is it worth the investment that it would take to have a pro repaint it with a finish that matches the original to a tee (bassically restore the original color)?

Jim this was your original question

Now i feel the question has been answered but iam not sure if the answers were to your liking look thats ok but genrally what you have been told my most in this thread has been true there are one or two details id differ to argue on if i could be bothered but i cant because everyone wants to be an expert when it comes to this subject so i save my breath on that level

I can respect the fact you dont want to sell your parts either if it was me id do the same but only if i was going to restore the guitar.

rule 1 never never ever stuff with factory finishes thats the first way to drop big value of any vintage instrument.

2 If the guitar works leave it alone there is no point destryoying original solder joints or changing stuff that dont need to be changed in the name of a passing musical endevour or anything else for that matter.

original cases tags reciepts etc with and original untouched guitar will always be what the true collector wants fullstop.

Check out Norman harris guitars thats a perfect collection to check out when you want to start looking at conditions

Now i realise you realise the above and you are happy with your guitar i know you dont want to sell it so please go on enjoying it what you describe as it playing better then alot of newer guitars is more a feel you have got use too

the tone along with the guitar has settled and mellowed in time
the value as i stated earlier will either depend on your fame or if you dont become famous then what you have now has neck and body value only and thats basically where the story ends.


I could assist you if your serious go back a few posts my email address is there if you are serious email me and i,ll discuss your options with you but only if your serious as i dont post all my contacts publicly it took me years to earn those contacts and many of these guys dont want floods of calls essp if people are just kicking tyres im sure you will understand anyway enjoy your new year hopefully you and your faithfull strat will rock the new year in the only way to go i say



have fun

regards wayne

 

[bongolation]

> Now i feel the question has been answered but i am
> not sure if the answers were to your liking

Bingo!

Funny how that works.

 

[jimistone]

hey, thanks for all your input. I hope you guys have a great year and cut some tracks that take you to the top. As far as my strat goes...i bought it in 1976 when 60's era strats were a dime a dozen and spent 150 bucks...if its worth 1000 bucks or 40 bucks...it doesn't matter..cause i've damn sure got my moneys worth out of it. If i could ever get this mp3 thing down i would post a song...i want to get you guys reviews,,,and i like the truth,,,not some candy coated "its good in a way " shit LOL ...if it sucks tell the truth. Thanks again treble and bongo for your input..see y'all later

 

[trebles]

I gave up on the idea of people who were real going to the top years ago music is rarley judged by those who really know

Its an industry who treat all like product sad really some mighty fine moments i guess have been lost forever because of this very annoying way which has propelled the average to the top while the real deal waited in vain .......... anyway thats another story

geez jim 76 that was before the time i was buying guitars
and yes 60,s era strats were a dime a dozen then ....it wasnt untill the early 80,s that all started to really rise i remember the period when an L series stratocaster was able to be had at around 750usd thats when i got into guitars.

I got 9 guitars in my collection but these days im down to my last stratocaster which is a custom coloured 69 stratocaster its very nice indeed and i dont know yet wether it will remain with me or be sold off i guess im still deciding my favourite guitar i own is an Epiphone crestwood deluxe 1964 model large batwing headstock 3 mini humbuckers epiphone tremlo super super cool and rare as to find too took me 8 years to land this one and its one i,ll never sell either heres a pic of a similar deluxe like i own check it out

http://www.craigmont.com.au/~theirishduck/1964_epiphone_crestwood_dlx.jpg

Jim you said it dont matter what its worth as you know its paid you back ten fold my advice to you is hang on to it but do make the decision to either leave it as is or restore if you restore email me i can assist you with this essp with the correct info you will need to do the job right if not and you decide to keep your friend the way it is then that will be fine too just let me know though if you have ever decided to sell those parts as if you reconsider i,ll buy the stuff of you heres my email addy again hq72@hotmail.com


ok all the best for the newyear jim happy new year its the 31december here in australia so hope you rock the year in and yes i,ll look forward to hearing you on mp3 bye for now ))


kindest regards wayne

 

[jimistone]

nice epiphone treble, way cool. I have had some really nice guitars through the years..a late 60's les paul...late 50's gretch country gent...various strats, but then i would find something i wanted and sell one of my "extra" guitars to get it. Looking back i wish i had have held on to them. You might not believe this but the mexican strat i bought a few months ago is the 1st guitar i've ever paid more than 200 bucks for. The era of finding vintage strats and les pauls for 100 bucks is damn near over. Pawn shops back in the 70's used to be vintage guitar heaven, but now pawn shops are higher than music stores. I say "damn near over" cause I let a deal slip by last month. There is a local classified ads paper around this area called "tradewinds". a freind of mine saw an ad for a yard sale..all kinds of items listed for sale and in the mix was "fender guitar and amp $100". The "tradewinds" he had was a week old and the guitar and amp had already sold for 100 bucks. It was an elderly woman selling some of her late husbands "junk". It was a 60's era strat and a super reverb amp...for 100 bucks! I guess im soft, but i couldn't have done that to the woman..i would have had to give her at least 100 for the super and 100 for the strat (LOL). But that goes to show you that there are deals still out there if you look hard enough. If I decide to get rid of the original parts for the '66 strat i will e-mail you. see ya treble

 

[CMiller]

For what its worth, the resale value of a guitar is only important if you are planning on selling an instrument. If you plan on playing this guitar and keeping it, then who really gives a shit what its worth? Buy instruments you plan on playing and don't worry about the value. Collectors ruin the ability of musicians to obtain cool instruments that are meant to be played. If you want to put something in the vault, get a Renoir.

 

[foo]

1st... if you have an old collectable strat from the '60's that has been refinished in a different color from the original....does this make it worthless...and....is it worth the investment that it would take to have a pro repaint it with a finish that matches the original to a tee (bassically restore the original color)?

That was the original question.

I bought and sold vintage guitars for several years (most of which were sold through Gruhn Guitars in Nashville) adn also ran a very large guitar department (700 guitars +) in a music store.

I can only tell you my opinion based upon what I learned during that period.

Any instrument (vintage or not) is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

Your Strat is not worth as much as it would be with original paint on it - but it is certainly not worthless.

To repaint it it's original color (and the guy you get to paint it better know the difference between Sonic Blue and Pelham Blue, Olympic White and Polaris White etc. and he also needs to know what years they put a yellow stain under the Sunburst finishes etc. etc. etc.) will not restore it to the value it would have if it had the original paint on it. It will increase the value if all the other parts are original and it now looks like it has been run over by a burning tank.

If it is a great sounding guitar (and that is definitely in the ear of the beholder) you may be wasting your time restoring it as a large part of it's value to a player is the sound and playability, and he is not going to care too much what it looks like.

If you are truly interested in finding out what it's worth, post more details here and I'll try and tell you the realistic price.

Please be very specific - e.g. when you say 'old style lettering' do you mean post mid-1965 old style, or February 1966 onwards old style, or . . . what? (It's the patent numbers that tell you the difference) and what are the numbers on the pots, etc, and what color is the bottom plate of the pickups and is there a rubber stamped date on it or a hand-written one with initials?

Etc.

I'll be happy to help.

foo

 

[trebles]

1st... if you have an old collectable strat from the '60's that has been refinished in a different color from the original....does this make it worthless...and....is it worth the investment that it would take to have a pro repaint it with a finish that matches the original to a tee (bassically restore the original color)?

ahhhhhh its been answered


no the guitar aint worthless but it sure aint worth what those wonderfull shops tag them out at alot of shops also claim they dont know a guitars history when the fact is this seems to be an excuse to get away with any liability issues or comeback once a person has paid their dollars upfront

Any instrument (vintage or not) is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

hmmmm it would be nice if that worked out more in our favour then the shops for a change

I,ll Tell you this ive seen with my own eyes fakes go undetected by all the so called experts all due respect to yourself i dont know you personally but ive seen other respected people swear blind a guitar was original and guess what happened they were none the wiser to what they just inspected

A guitar with history will always hold up well or a guitar bought from the original owner who aint hung up on vintage prices is a better bet for a fair deal

the shops are there to make money fine their not charaties but the way some do their business leaves little to be desired.

Ive also offered jim assistance as well so although you have also covered some valid points there are alot that have already been stated and covered here as well

 

[toyL]

1st question--YES, your fender is now "worthless"--send it to me right away and I'll dispose of it properly...you can't leave these things laying around because they can be dangerous in the right hands...2d question--your gibson is also worthless--it's too old...again, send it to me right away because if someone actually put a couple hundred dollars into it, it too would be dangerous...
just KIDDING...each of the instruments will continue to "appreciate" well into the future, so, keep them locked away warm and snug...and by all means, spend some cash on them from time to time...naturally, the fender will never draw the attention of the purest dealer/collector, but there are still plenty of other buyers...your gibson sounds like it definitely needs some cash spent on it...in the hands of a good luthier it will practically play itself--if you hold it just right and breathe across the strings with "intention".

 

[foo]

Experts are usually only as good as their education - and generally, unless you've handled thousands of guitars, you don't have a complete education, and you don't develop that sixth sense, as in 'this doesn't feel right'

Some of the so-called experts that I've seen at guitar shows have lots of book knowledge, but no real hands-on experience. I suspect that those are th etype of experts that you have seen.

In a non-US market, there aren't that many real guitars to compare (and I'm not belittling anybody or any country - I'm a Brit who lives in the USA and once went to a UK show and was surprised at the lack of quality merchandise - Although there was a real nice 1960 Sunburst) - I've also been around Denmark Street many times - I was told once that the Gibson 345 I was looking at couldn't be from the early Sixties as it didn't have dot inlays - Gibson 345's never had dot inlays) so I understand that you think that experts don't know their stuff, but . . .

I only dealt in vintage guitars for about five years, and it was during the late '80's - early 90's which was a major boom time for vintage guitars - and I'm not an 'expert' but i am pretty comfortable with non-archtop Gibson electrics from the Fifties and early Sixties (before they changed the headstock angle) and post-1959 Strats and Telecasters. I used to live in a city of more than 1 million people and the (non-vintage, regular) store owners would call me if they had a guitar come in that they didn't know if it was genuine.

To me, the following guys are extremely knowledgable: George Gruhn; Stan Jay; Albert Molinaro ; Gil Southworth. These are all guys who I've met and watched them evaluate guitars.

. . . and that was an education in itself.

Unless you've seen one of them (or someone with the same level of expertise) in action, then you haven't seen a real expert.

As for why these instruments cost so much - it's a desire driven industry. Those guys who whine about 'oh, the collectors have taken all the good guitars away and real musicians can't get a good guitar any more' just don't understand the laws of supply and demand. A guitar is a commodity just like any other.

There are plenty of great guitars available right now that are less than $1,000.

I have a 1963 Epiphone Crestwood Custom (which is white, has two pickups, the coolest oval inlays! and a three-on-a-side headstock) and is absolutely a wolf in sheep's clothing. It was made in the Gibson factory, and is basically a 1963 Gibson SG with mini humbuckers and 'Epiphone' written on it. I paid $900.

Once you have a little knowledge, you can find really great stuff.

I have a mint condition Blackface Vibrolux Reverb that I paid $300 for. Did I know it was worth $1,000? Of course! The guy selling it didn't and when he asked for $300 I gave it to him. Does that make me the bad guy? Absolutely not! He got the price he asked for, and my knowledge got me a great deal.

The Crestwood Deluxe that Trebles lists is a great guitar - the neck's too skinny for my taste, but the guitar probably sounds great. (Maybe even as good as my Custom (c;])

If you want to buy a great vintage guitar, you have a couple of options:

If you're really serious, take out a major loan and get something from a really reputable dealer (like the guy who took a second mortgage on his house to buy a $15,000 D'Aquisto [which is now worth$30,000] because ' . . .I play guitar for a living, and I wanted a guitar that will always satisfy me. . .'), or

Learn about guitars and buy something that no-one else knows what it is - e.g. an Epiphone Coronet from 1962 is virtually identical to a Les Paul Junior from the same period for a lot less money. A 'Dwight' is an Epiphone Coronet without Epiphone written on it. So you can buy what is basically a ($2,000+) Les Paul Junior for a few hundred dollars - if you know what a 'Dwight' is. (And now you do!)

Have fun looking.

foo

 

[trebles]

I have to totally agree with you about the epiphones from the 60,s being dark horses that they are a little tweaking by the right tech or luthier and you have a real killer on your hands


Re the crestwood deluxe the 3 pickup model large batwing headstock thats is the rarest of the rare epiphones you are correct in saying the width of my crestwoods neck is thinner then yours but thats not all of them some deluxes have the wider neck as well i like the feel of both personally

My guitar has block inlays as aposed to the oval inlays on the custom i think with the three pick up model one pickup is out of phase

many try and pass wilshires off as customs as well so you got to be carefull but if it has oval inlays its a custom if it has dots its a wilshire or coronet depending on the pick configuration tail pieces pickguards etc some customs and deluxes also wore a badge with the words custom made some gibsons also wore the same bage as well hehe i need one of those badges along with some t v top tone and volume caps

for a muso id say a wilshire is a great buy a little cheaper then the custom and the deluxe but essentially the same guitar body and neck headstocks and neck widths of course varied on some models the deluxe being the obvious in the bunch wearing a large batwing headstock

machine heads were nickle grovers the early pat usa stamped
on the rear and alot of the mini humbuckers in the 60,s had pat applied stickers on the rear of the pickups anyway you cant beat a us epiphone for the value and price but again if you dont hurry these will all be gone too

 

[jimistone]

what about epiphone's version of the 63 gibson firebird...have any of you guys played them....i have yet to see one in a music store. I WANT ONE!!! but, i don't think i could ever buy a guitar without playing it 1st. Im a johnny winter freak and i've always wanted a firebird...about 15 years ago i could have gotten a gibson firebird for 350 bucks and didn't get it (still kicking myself over that). I just wonder if the epiphone copies are up to snuff....i've heard they are fine and i've heard that they are cheesy.

 

[Gag]

I just couldn"t pass up a chance to get my two cents in but since everything seems to be covered whats the point. LOL .Maybe a little reiteration .Daddy-o's thread about the two different colours was informative , is the other paint job a factory cover colour? Also a serious appraisal by somebody that really knows thier shite would be your best route. Oh yeah if you really need some bucks and really want to sell that beater I've got a couple of hun in by back pocket and it's in Canadian funds LOL.. cheers Gag