vintage guitar question

[jimistone]

this is for anyone that is knowledgeable (never said i could spell) about vintage guitars and they're values. 2 questions: 1st... if you have an old collectable strat from the '60's that has been refinished in a different color from the original....does this make it worthless...and....is it worth the investment that it would take to have a pro repaint it with a finish that matches the original to a tee (bassically restore the original color)?
2nd...gibson came out with a guitar in the mid-70's...a solid body guitar, shaped like a les paul but with a thin body like an sg..had a little bit longer neck...natural wood finish. I think it is a L6-s or something like that...carlos santana was promoting them in the 70's...anyway...what can anyone tell me about those guitars? are they worth sinking 250 bucks into a re-fret? Plays real good and sounds fantastic (got those old humbuckers on it)..it just has a couple of places that grooves are worn too deep in the frets causing dead spots on bends. Only paid 200 bucks for it in a pawn shop...just wondering if sinking another 250 in it would be throwing good money after bad?

 

[Henri Devill]

Since the you had the guitar refinished, the value is never going to be the same as if you had not...It still has value but not as much..The L6 was a nice guit,thin neck..you have the one with the 6 position varitone selector?I'de have it refreted..see if you can get a better price 250.00 seems a little steep...But thats just me, Im cheap .LOL.....Good luck




Don

 

[hixmix]

Refinishing will always devalue a guitar. That's just the law of the marketplace.

If the L6 has a great tone and really speaks to you when you play it, sure, go for the fret job.

 

[trebles]

to refinish or not to refinish ?

Ok alot of people say they know alot about this simply because they heard something said by someone else who told them so i,ll post here what i believe based on experience

Guitar conditions and grading should always be graded per how the guitar was released from the factory does it have all its tags reciepts original strap and nick nacks placed in the case and still intact from day dot

after this the overall condition are you looking at a refinished instrument or an original how you do you know there are many genuine fakes out there that are so dam close very few could tell and i challange anyone who tells me differently

I am not talking about blatent botch jobs which any one can pick im talking real pro refins and that dont mean high gloss finish it means slick operators who know the ins and outs of vintage guitar repair and restoration i may also add in the word forgery as well.........ive seen So called experts look at guitars that they clased as original little did they know the history of what they were looking at how do i know well i knew one of the people who replicated this instrument so when i saw the grading i thought well there you go that proves it.

The more info you get on or with a guitar the better for you history on an instrument does say a lot and sometimes is all you have to go on when parting with the hard earned green folding stuff

Ive personally owned fully original eary 60,s stratocasters with tags and reciepts etc when i bought them they were had for reasonable money and when they were sold i made my money back

i still own a 60,s stratocaster which is a 1969 model it was built up from parts arghhhhhhhh i hear you all screaming its a fake it aint original well it aint a fake but its not original so to speak all the parts and numbers, wiring were sort from other parts 69,s to build this up are the parts genuine yes is the neck and body genuine yes

so yes there are no other parts then genuine 1969 parts used on this guitar.

could you tell the difference no way

Why because ive changed nothing from factory spec all is correct right down to the original 4 bolt f neckplate all i did was purchase all the original parts back to build the guitar back to its former glory is it wrong i think not id rather have it as it is now then just a neck and body sitting and collecting dust.


Will i make good money on it when i sell it hell yes alot more then i bought it for too.


so restore or not to restore is a hard subject to answer id say if you had a sweat ridden stratocaster which is if not restored will only get worse and any real vintage buff who knows their stuff will determine this for you then to restore is a good thing

but make sure he/she who restores your guitar has some reputation in restoring original instruments to their former finishes remember its not about making an old stratocaster new again but maybe making it look more nos or relic this way it can look correct for its age and not look like some shitty retro repro that some one has done in between jobs also remember do not hurry the person along let them take their time finishing your instrument after all these are still investments even though just a guitar if you have whats in demand you will always find your market

 

[Daddy-O]

I'm a vintage freak but NOT a purist. If the guitar has been refinished- so what. Most of us can't afford a $12,000 all original strat so the player's models will do just fine. A general price range for refin strats from the fifties and sixties, IF the guitar still has the original pickups&covers, pots, tunners, pickguard, knobs, threeway switch, and neck plate----$4000 to $8000 depending of condition,color, age, and quality of the refin, condition or the neck and the age of the guitar. Pre CBS strats(1954-1963ish) bringing the biggest bucks. Keep in mind that many custom color strats may appear as refins because they are. Fender often would grab a standard sunburst body off of the rack and paint it again for a special order and after thirty some years the custom color starts to wear and the sunburst shows thru. If you are thinking of selling this guitar, take to a vintage dealer who can apraise it for you and match all of the numbers. My best advice to you would be to keep the guitar forever if at all possible------you always pay more to buy them back than what you made seeling it.

 

[trebles]

i findmyself trapped somewhere between purist and freak hahaha so feel lucky your only in the freak basket

pre and 54 up to 64 fenders stratocasters/telecasters bring the most money correct esquires and brodcasters/nocasters being in their own league again

69 is also a big year because of Hendrix so that does nice things for people like me with 69 strats

the 50,s Stratocasters are a tad above your quoted figure

that 4 to 8k usd genrally referes to more a 60,s instrument the exception to the rule being odd factory one offs, employee guitars, custom colours etc

And i do agree with your statement about if a guitar has been refinished so what................. people think nothing of restoring old cars so why not guitars im fully with you here its just how its refinished which is the question by who and how its done using correct methods paint batch codes and technique and also the main question does it require a refin or not?

as i say buyer beware there are more genuine fakes then you may think bargains that people believe are correct and for one the best fakes cannot be told apart you may x ray guitars and maybe only then see the truth but other then that try and pick them essp the parts and numbers correct models you know not all of them are real either ive seen many beauties taken apart and they were so dam well done now you see why there is a market for this stuff just look at the asking prices

 

[jimistone]

well, my strat was sunburst with a white pick guard a '66 model (has the big headstock and the old style "stratocaster" lettering). i sanded it down and went natural wood finish back in '79. ended up painting it confederate grey with a rebel flag pickguard and brass knobs when i was playing outlaw country in the eary 80's. i did the confederate grey in dupont emoron and the finish has stood the test of timeit is a real tough paint. now i have a black pickguard and knobs and pickup covers and its loaded with texas specials and a 5 way switch. I still have all the original parts.....i was just wondering if the correct finish and parts would up the value. I really don't know why I care about that though...cause i've had it since 1976 and i wouldn't sell if for any price. I had a chance to get it signed by every member of skynyrd....but when Ed King came into the motel room after the show he said "if anyone asks me to sign anything else im gonna scream".....so i didn't ask. But a grey "66 strat with a rebel flag guard...signed by all the members of skynyrd would have been pretty cool.

 

[trebles]

it all depends on how much you want it back to genuine if it dont faze you and you like it as is leave it the way it is

as you stated you wont ever sell it so theres no issue on price then and unless the guitar is an absolute gem in every other respect or unless you know the right person who can really put it back to the exact spec you would be wasting your time

and when i say put back correctly i mean done in such a way that no one is ever gonna know it was anything other then what it was to begin with other then the exception of the years it already has up on it

i wont say to much more on this as i know this always brings the vintage crew out of the wood works to tell you they have done it and you could not tell the difference or some other related story

if theres anything else you want to know about the above just click on my info message me and i shall reply your post also any thing your thinking of getting rid of parts wise please also let me know im happy to buy the parts of you if you are thinking of selling them

 

[trebles]

just read your post again ouch when i read you sanded the original colour off anyway when i get some time soon i,ll post some pics of my guitar collection i,ll include some of the 60,s strats as well theres also a custom coloured one in there as well you might like to see ))

 

[mixmkr]

I've got an L6S, and like it very much. I think it is kinda a *sleeper* guitar for Gibson, as it has never really been worth much, but is a fine guitar. The most I have seen used ones sell for were around $400, in which I think is a fantastic deal, but they never were really expensive to begin with, and never made the "fame" of any of the other Gibsons. It was only made during the late 70's-early 80's. My guitar has had all the electronics redone (the 80's coil tapping stuff, phase switches...)and a new thru body bridge, and I think it may actually bring up the value a bit, not worrying about original stuff. $250 for a fret job sounds a little on the high side, but if the work is TOP NOTCH, I would go for it. Remember, a decent case at this price is a bonus too. So..for $450 for a good playing guitar with a new fret job...sounds like a deal, especially if you like the guitar.

Too many variables to comment on the refinishing of the strat, but a good refinish would not make it worthless, nor command a "vintage" price either.

 

[jimistone]

thanks for all your input. The 250 fret job guy comes highly recomended so im probaly gonna go for known top notch work instead of looking for a bargin. As far as the strat goes i was just curious...it is about the finest playing guitar i have ever put in my hands (but I HAVE been playing it for 25 years or so). it has always sounded good too....it has a great tone unplugged even. If the sanded down strat story makes you say "ouch"...you don't even want to hear the "59 gretch country gent ruined" story LOL
I hope everyone has a merry Cristmas and a happy New Years (war is over....if you want it) PEACE

 

[bongolation]

Here's the bottom line: You can't get the toothpaste back in the tube. This is no longer anything but a parts guitar. Do whatever you want with it, as it doesn't matter any more.

Modifications destroy the value of any guitar over time. People hate to hear this, but it's the truth. I wish I had a nickle for every time some bozo has flamed me for saying this, but anyone who deals in vintage instruments knows that it is the indisputable law of the marketplace. There is virtually nothing you can do to a guitar that you can undo so I can't tell it, and it will definitely detract from value. I can tell if you've swapped out the pickups and put the originals back. Everything you've ever done to a guitar gets you dinged on the price.

The other point is that people think because a guitar is a cheapie none of this matters, but even previously undesirable guitars become collectable after a certain length of time if they have been kept original and in nice condition. I'm amazed at what people are buying now as vintage guitars, and how much they're paying for them. People who can't afford to trade in vintage Stratocasters deal in other instruments. People are even collecting those horrible drugstore imports from the '60s and are paying good money if the merchandise is original.

Buy it and leave it alone except to play it (carefully). Get over it, folks.

 

[jimistone]

well i don't agree with the "parts guitar" analogy. it plays better than any of the american strats i've picked on. Lets see...its american made, has a custom color, loaded with texas specials, has a 5 way switch...all this you have to pay extra for on a new strat....so..ought to be worth at least 2 grand (but like i said i wouldn't sell it anyway).

 

[jimistone]

Stevie Ray Vaughn used parts from 2 different years of strats on that old "srv" strat with almost all the finish rubbed off. It wasn't anywhere near "original". What would that guitar go for now?..a 1/2 million or so?? What about the hand painted strat that george harrison was playing during the magical mystery tour...wouldn't it be worth far more than any "original" that he was playing at the time? If your a collector, its true, you want correctness and authenticity. like in the classic car market, a boss 429 mustang that is 100% original and has 52 actual miles on the odomator is worth more than one that is restored to perfection.....but....the restored one is worth more than the one that don't run...sitting out in a pasture rusting.

 

[trebles]

george and stevie,s guitars are only worth the value they are worth because they owned them which means if these two people never owned those guitars the values would not be as much as they are now.

the srv guitar would be judged as it is and its value would not be as it is now if it was owned by someone who wasnt famous

same goes for georges stratocaster

If you become famous yourself then your guitar as it is will be worth heaps alot more then you even realise but for now its your reliable old friend treat it as such and enjoy )


originality is everything in vintage guitar collecting.

anything less then that is fine as long as you realise you wont make bucks back that way you simply have a players guitar which aint bad but its value as is will only be worth money when you yourself are worth money.............................when you become a bigstar

 

[jimistone]

well...thats my game plan...to be a star. so i guess my strat will be worth big bucks.

 

[bongolation]

It's probably the easier route.

I think you'll find becoming a big star easier than getting much for a butchered guitar.

 

[trebles]

sinse you wont be needing the parts you pulled of your guitar and you are happy with it as it is please let me know if you want to sell your left over parts you have laying around the ones you pulled of this guitar make a list of what you want to sell and email me here hq72@hotmail.com i,ll buy them off you

 

[jimistone]

trebles
i have had those old strat parts for years, and i hear the argument that it would not increase the value of the guitar to put the parts back on...but...one of these days I might put it back original (restored actually) and then i may not. Im gonna keep the parts though, so i'll have that option. The other guitar player in our band has a "restored" mosrite that he's been offered 2 grand for (not by a collector). The finish is very good and it looks original to me (this is what caused me to start this thread in the first place).

bongo
I don't agree that my "butchered" guitar won't bring much. I've already been offered 1000 bucks for it (followed by "well, how much WOULD you take?"). That guy is a musician i know that loves my guitar and plopped down over a grand on a new one.
The new ones i've played arn't even in the same league when it comes to playability and tone. So....bottom line is this: give me a serious guitar player that wants a great guitar, is shopping in a music store for a strat, and has the money....i could hand him mine and sell it for at least 1000 bucks, maybe more. This i know.
I could have sold that strat so many times...and thats with me being right up front about it not being for sale. What I don't get is why a "relic" strat out of the fender custum shop (which is a TOTAL fake) fetches 2500 bucks and a REAL vintage strat with a different finish is (according to this thread) worthless. A vintage guitar collector might not buy my guitar.....but he DAMN sure wouldn't buy a "relic" fake guitar from fender either. I think vintage guitar collectors account for very low percentage of old guitars sold.....another words MUSICIANS are buying most of the guitars not collectors. I think 1000 bucks is "much money" cause i only paid 150 bucks for the damn thing anyways. Peace

 

[bongolation]

> bongo

>I don't agree that my "butchered" guitar won't bring much. I've
>already been offered 1000 bucks for it

Do you have the faintest idea how much you'd get for it if it was all original? Try _at least_ five times that, assuming it's a mid-'60s and would be in good, playable condition.

Depending on year and condition, maybe ten times that.