V-Amp 2, used Pod2, or DM4 for signal into SONAR

[shawn gibson]

Hi there

I'm looking to get a clean to distorted signal into Cakewalk Sonar with my electric guitar.

It seems the best bets for me, given my $, are one of the following:

V-Amp 2 (new)
Pod 2 (used)
DM4 (used) - see http://www.songbirdmusic.com/torasp/odetail.asp?id=5986

I'm hoping to get the guitars in as unprocessed as possible, and do that in Cakewalk after the fact so I'm not committing until I'm ready as far as effects are concerned, so it would seem maybe the DM4 is the right choice?

Any suggestions would be appreciated, user comments, etc.

Thanks very much,

Shawn

 

[scottboyher]

Much praise has been directed toward the POD. If you can afford one of those then that is the ticket....

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[Lopp]

I personally like the SansAmp GT2 or similar.

Go audition them all!

 

[SteveMcB]

J-station

How about the J-station?
Cheap
Sounds great
Bass models too for bass into computer (SVT sound gooooood)
Digital out

Just a thought!
Steve

 

[bdbdbuck]

I like my V-Amp. You say you prefer to apply fx with the puter, but you may change your mind in the future.


bd

 

[shawn gibson]

Well, the truth is, I don't know what I prefer yet...just getting started. I do know, from my old analog days, that it was always best if I could get a guitar recorded as cleanly as possible, like with the right amount gain and eq'ing, and nothing else. Even with a hard rock/metal sound, cuz things got awfully noisy the more I added at the input stage.

I'm still completely in the dark as to how it's all going to work, for example, if I get a DI and go straight in to the soundcard, can I just use the Cakewalk ReValver from there for now? If so, then I'd rather wait for any of these external boxes, and just go get the best one at a time when I can afford it in a month or two.

Everyone is raving about the new generation Pod, and the new V-Amp I just saw is out...so maybe either of them would be good. But is it really worth the difference in price? I remember the SansAmp from when I was recording, and it had a good reputation, but it wasn't built with 'direct-out' in mind, so...I'd still be relying on cabinet modelling (if that's the right word) from ReValver to get rid of the 'directness', wouldn't I?

Basically, I will have $300 Cdn left to do one of 2 things when I get my guitar next Friday and get started. I'll either get a box for it, probably used, or a new V-Amp since it's in my range, or I'll get a Midiman or Evolution keyboard controller so I can use something other than the mouse for writing. They're both important, so if I can get by with a direct signal from my guitar and rely on the software for now, that might be better, so I can get a musical interface for writing (the controller). But if a direct signal won't get me a distorted/overdriven signal with software, then I have to buy a box now...

All very confusing.

Thanks everyone, I know what to shop for now, what to check out...

Shawn

 

[shawn gibson]

Just as an FYI, upon downloading the samples from both the new Pod and V-Amp 2 this morning, I have 2 say, the V-Amp really sounded processed and tinny to me, but it may have been the files??? On the other hand, the Pod really sounded tight, full-spectral, and fairly nice in some of the tones. Guess it's time now to test some of these buggers out in person...

Hopefully the Pod 2 is as good sounding as the new Pod, cuz I just can't spend THAT much LOL



Shawn

 

[Robertyu]

Don't count out the V-Amp2. I have the following for my guitar setup.

American Series Strat
Gibson Les Paul
Jackson w/ S.D. pickups
a few others not worth mentioning

Vamp2
Line6 Guitar Port (based on same modeling as POD)
Mesa Boogie Mark IV Simul-class combo

I've played the POD 2.0, and it is no better than the Vamp2. In fact, I think the Vamp sounds better, than the POD 2.0 and my Guitar Port.

I also record with Sonar using a Delta 1010, and am starting to use the Vamp to lay down most guitar tracks. Why? I must say not always for the Vamp tones, but what it does to aid me in "re-amping". What I've started to do is set the Vamp-2 outputs up so that one channel sends the processed signal (for monitoring while I record), and the other channel sends the unprocessed signal. I record both processed and unprocessed channels to two seperate tracks in Sonar, and then later route the unprocessed channel to whatever amp or processor I want , and re-record that result to another track. This is what the term "re-amping" means, and I've found it to be very valuable for getting the right tone for a song, yet never wasting a take. Have you ever done the perfect take, just to later wish you had used a different amp or signal processing chain? I once did a track that sounded pretty good through my Mesa Mark IV, but ended up sounding more suitable for the track when I "re-amped" it through my friend's Soldano head and cabinet mic'd with my SM58 and C1 mics. I was able to get that trickey solo into the mix with out even re-tracking it on the guitar. Awsome!


Yes, the Vamp is a good unit, and there has been times where I actually kept the original processed track in the song because it fit well and sounded good with some mild EQ with my Waves plugins. I do not believe the POD 2.0 can configure it's outputs for re-amping like the Vamp2 can, but would imagine the POD XT can. I got rid of the POD2 before I ever stumbled onto the re-amping concept, so I never even tried to use it this way.

POD 2.0 & XT users: Please let us know if the outputs can be configured to support re-amping.

 

[shawn gibson]

Well as a user doing what I want, I have to say thanks for letting me know what I want to do can be done. I'll check the V-Amp 2 out in person for sure. Do you have any mp3s with it?

My setup is going to be

Ibanez RG560 > (v-Amp, Pod, whatever) > Audigy 2 (I know, wrong one, will replace later) > Sonar 2.1XL.

...and as I say, I'll get a Midiman or Evolution or something USB for playing the non-guitar parts.

I don't and can't have an amp. I'd get evicted from my apartment coop in 5 seconds flat lOL

I love your idea, an effected line for playing, and a clean line for recording, with additions later. That's the way I'll be doing it, I think.


Thanks very much
Shawn

 

[bdbdbuck]

I have found my V-Amp 2 to be quite the opposite of tinny, in fact I have been using it with my Ovation A/E to give it a richer sound. Although as much as I hate to say it, I don't think I would buy anything made in Germany right now. But that's more of a political viewpoint, it in no way diminishes the versatility of the V-Amp 2.

bd

 

[cstockdale]

I will add another vote for the Johnson J-station. It rivals the POD, V-Amp and any other modelling unit. The difference is primarily in your ears, they are all good units, and they all sound good depending on your taste. The J is sweet, and tends to come cheaper than the other two, however, and also has digital out via S/PDIF.

I tried the way you suggested at first, recording in clean and using the ReValver. I personally hated it. Too harsh, and if using input monitoring on a P4 1.6Ghz with 256 RAM, the latency was bad enough to make it near impossible to record in time, if I lowered latency to make playing possible it was so unstable and stuttered. IF you don't need input monitoring then it is fine (but still sounds brittle), but I find it awful hard to play without effects taht so often are the dynamics of the song.

 

[Robertyu]

I will add another vote for the Johnson J-station. It rivals the POD, V-Amp and any other modelling unit. The difference is primarily in your ears, they are all good units, and they all sound good depending on your taste. The J is sweet, and tends to come cheaper than the other two, however, and also has digital out via S/PDIF.

I tried the way you suggested at first, recording in clean and using the ReValver. I personally hated it. Too harsh, and if using input monitoring on a P4 1.6Ghz with 256 RAM, the latency was bad enough to make it near impossible to record in time, if I lowered latency to make playing possible it was so unstable and stuttered. IF you don't need input monitoring then it is fine (but still sounds brittle), but I find it awful hard to play without effects taht so often are the dynamics of the song.

The situation you state is exactly why I like to use the Vamp2 for recording a dry signal. I set things up so that I'm actually monitoring the processed guitar signal from the Vamp while playing. That way, I'm hearing a relatively good guitar sound while recording, and can get into the part and play it right, while still also recording the unprocessed guitar signal for later processing. I don't even bother monitoring the dry signal during the take, and just make sure I have good level on that channel. You're going to need to experiment with things to get it all the way you need it.

I'm using a Delta 1010 so enough simultaneous inputs and latency are not issues for me. The Delta 1010 is good enough to even slap Waves Trueverb on a real-time signal and monitor it while recording without latency being a factor. What soundcard are you using? That seems to be as much (or maybe even more) of a factor than your system speed. With a good sound card and ASIO drivers under Sonar 2.2, your particular computer should not have significant latency issues, although I would recommend you upgrade your memory beyond 256 megs.

 

[shawn gibson]

I have a 1.8A Pentium4 with a Gig of ram (the regular, not double speed stuff)...& an Audigy 2 for sound. Do you think I'll be OK with a clean/wet ReValver approach given cstockstale's problems with it?

Just asking because if you think so, I'll definitely get the guitar gear now, if not, I'll wait a couple of weeks so I can get a keyboard controller...

Shawn

 

[charger]

If you can afford it, I would go for the Pod xt. I use a Pod (2.0)and a J-Station at a weekly jam night, jamming with a full band in headphones, and a Pod xt regularly at home. I've used V-amp several times too. None of those come close to the Pod xt.

I would venture to say that if you can't afford the xt, you might do well to get a DI, record your guitars direct to the computer, and process them in Sonar, if you have the tools to do it.

The Pod xt can be hooked straight up to your computer over USB, and used as a playback device for Sonar, while you use it to record new guitar tracks too...

This is all opinion of course, but I do have some sound samples... (warning: they actually get better as you go towards the bottom of the page... as I got better at making sounds on the xt over time)...

http://www.astrondelta.com/charger/podxt

 

[shawn gibson]

hey charger,

Actually I'd love to hear them, but your server's down If I can get away for a month or so with ReValver sound, then it shouldn't be a problem, I'm only in a hurry cuz I'm dying to play. The new Pod looks cool, problem is, I used to work (10 years ago) for a music store, and in 2 years I heard a lot of stuff that seemed neat that I'd never buy. I will go with my ear, even if that means a wrong choice cuz I'm so dusty, though never in a cage, I hope

Shawn

 

[shawn gibson]

nevermind, your server's up now

a milli glitch

 

[Robertyu]

I would also have to say the PODxt is better than the POD 2.0, the Vamp2, and Jstation (I've played quuite a bit throught all of these). The reason I have not gone out and bought the PODxt, is because it is just not worth it over the Vamp2. With the Vamp2 costing $120 or less, it's just sounds way too good for that kind of money to pass up. I play and monitor through a set of Mackie HR24 reference monitors, so if the sound was bad or tinny, it would stick out like a sore thumb, but it sounds pretty decent without the need for much eq at all.

In my opinion, nothing touches mic'ing a great all-tube guitar amp, so that's usually the end signal that ends up on my stuff. I cannot justify the outragous cost of a PODxt since it still is not good enough for most final recording. I would just end up using the PODxt for a practice platform, or for a tracking-monitor of a dry signal I will eventually re-amp through a real amplifier and mics.

Keep in mind, this is from a guy that owns plenty of Line6 gear, and who bought the original POD, the POD2, and the Guitar Port. I think that should keep people from thinking that I have anti-Line6 tendencies (not that anyone is saying that I do).

Shawn, Your computer is plenty good enough to record well with Sonar, but please get a better audio card as soon as you can afford it. The Audigy Platinum that I had in my DAW at first had way too much latency to work with for a DAW, and I had no choice but to yank it from that particular duty. If I had to guess why cstockstale had such problems with latency and such, my first guess would be that he was attempting to use a Soundblaster-based audio card for recording purposes. That may not be the case, but I would sure want to know what audio card he was trying to use. If you ever want to use soft-synths and plug-ins like reverb, compression, etc, that Audigy (yes, even the Audigy 2) is not going to cut it for you. If you are on a budget, the Delta 2496 is only about $150, and does real well under Sonar 2.

I hope this helps.

 

[charger]

I'm not questioning anyone's experiences or opinions here, but I would argue (having owned one now for 5 months) that POD xt is definitely good enough to sit in a recorded mix. It's a much better modeler for that purpose than the previous generation of modelers.

As far as getting a better sound card goes, did I mention POD xt also works as one, over the USB connection? With WDM, ASIO, and MME drivers. Good latency too, and a direct digital connection.

 

[shawn gibson]

I just asked the company I bought the Audigy 2 from if they'd let me return it, as I'm unhappy with it's potential, and they said no problem, but they don't deal with the company that makes the Delta. Crappy. So, I'm stuck with it till I can purchase outright.

charger - are those tracks on your link directly into a soundcard and not miked or anything. I'd love to be able to mike, but I'm in a co-op and the people here would have me kicked out in no time, it's happened before...

Does anyone have any hard-rock V-Amp 2 stuff online they'd like to share?

Definitely waiting for the keyboard controller, and getting a guitar module first (V-Amp, Pod, who knows...V-Amp is totally in my price range at $285 Cdn at Long & McQuade...no one has anything used in Toronto or I'd just go get a Pod 2; if I had patience, I'd just wait 4 weeks and get the new Pod. Blah) . I need a decent tone in the beginning or it's gonna put me off.

This waiting really is approaching that Buddhist state known as "crappy". Why doesn't money grow on trees? Who needs figs anyways??? LOL

Shawn

 

[KaBudokan]

I don't know if you can find it for this price in Canada or not, but in the US Guitar Center has been blowing out the Yamaha DG Stomp. I compared it to the POD 2.0 and J-Station when I bought mine (2 years ago?) and thought it sounded better.

I thought it was a good deal at the $279 I paid, and it's recently been selling for $139 at GC. Worth looking around for.