underwhelmed by sm7b

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jessenesbitt

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long time reader of the forum, never post (most of my questions are answered by searching) ...


i recently purchased an sm7b based on all the different information here and other similar sites.

previously, my main vocal mic has been a studio projects c1. both of those mics typically run through my rnp/rnc.

overall, i have to say that i'm underwhelmed by the sm7b. i primarily record my own voice but have also used it on a few other people. so far, i have yet to find a vocal usage where i don't prefer the c1.

i've tried it every way i can think of.. with/without both windscreens, 0-12" away, flat/cut/boost and every possible combination.

it just always sounds sort of boring to me. sometimes deliberate eq/comp/reverb brings it close to what i want but it never seems to get there.

i'm hoping this is one of those "novice not ready for the nuances of better tools" sort of situations, but feel like i just wasted money... any suggestions?

some unmastered home-fi recordings are my myspace: myspace.com/jessenesbitt (can't make a real link until you have five posts?) if you are interested in referencing my material...

jesse
 
a studio projects C1... i love that mic. I use it on alot of things - however, it can have an overly hyped hi end that to the untrained ear can sound "better" - but in reality its just that -- hype.

now im not saying this is the case with you, please dont take my words this way..

however, i know this because way back in the day i was fooled by the same phenomena. if you could call it that.

Also you have to make sure your preamp works well with it.
 
Do you have any other mic pres to try it through? Put it another way - have you ever liked the sound of any dynamic mics through your current mic pre?

What I'm saying is - it might be your mic pre. Getting the most out of a dynamic mic like the SM7 often requires a good match in the mic pre department.

Also, what are you monitoring through?

Aj
 
thanks for the responses. sorry if i obscured it above, but I use the fmr audio rnp preamp. i've read that this is a fine match usually.

the only other preamps i currently have are on my interface - a presonus firebox. this doesn't seem like it would be an improvement..

as far as monitoring, i'm completely basic... sony mdr-7506 headphones or logitech computer speakers...
 
I've been interested in the sm7B for quite a while and haven't had the cash to get one yet. Yours is the first post I came across that didn't rave about it. Most all the threads related to the sm7b will inevitably mention the RNP also.

I have the C1 also, and feel it's too poor a match for me. I have some terrrrrible sibilance that is hard to control and the C1 only makes it worse. I was hoping the sm7b would be a solution. I've go the sm58 and was thinking of doing the telefunken mod on it in leiu of the sm7b.

I'll give your tunes a listen.

Thanks for posting....
 
I would suggest that you're so used to the hyped sound of a condenser that the SM7b sounds just blah. I had the same reaction. And I still don't ALWAYS use my SM7b--but I do consider it my most valuable mic.

Because it doesn't hype--it mixes well. That boring sound that's underwhelming you is exactly what makes it work well. What goes in is what comes out--and the better the singer, the more helpful that is.

When I'm tracking someone who's tentative or underwhelming as a singer--esp. a female, I'll use a condenser. But when I'm recording someone who can sing it out, esp. a male, the SM7b is my go to mic.
 
Sorry - I can't listen to your recordings right now, which would probably help, but I can say that I'm trying to learn how to sing, and when I use the SM7b on a low impedance input pre, it feels (and sounds) like I'm fighting it and losing. I have a few preamps that have either a high input impedance, or a variable one that I turn up, and then it's much better.

I'm sure the RNP is awesome, but I've never seen one -- do you know what the input impedance is, and/or does it have variable or switchable impedance? I couldn't figure it out from a quick read through their website.

edit: the SM7b has 150ohm output -- the TnC preamps are switchable to 1200 ohms input, which works nicely for me; I have an ART Digital MPA that can be turned up to 3000 ohms (too much -- I usually keep it at about 75% of that), etc.
 
jessenesbitt said:
...

i'm hoping this is one of those "novice not ready for the nuances of better tools" sort of situations, but feel like i just wasted money... any suggestions?
...
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these have very good resale value...

definitely agree with whitestrat too on this. most inexpensive condensers have a little presence boost so they sound more "exciting" (wheeee!), but some mics like the sm7 or the blingy u87 (among others obviously) are prized because they will work on most sources without coloring them too much. you can color the sound all you want later.
 
I'd say your monitoring set up is not at all adequate for trying to assess your mics or pres. The mdr-7506's are colored and I think you are missing alot with computer speakers.
Vocal mics are a total PIA to find. Go ahead look at at most of the whining and crying about any mic on the market and it's usually someone that is not happy with how a certain mic sounds on vox. Peaple bit*&ing about Nuemen or Perlman or Shure.
So ultimately it may be that the sm7 is just not suited to yours (or the others your recoding) voice. I bet it still kick a#$ on bass amp though.

Still your monitoring set up is not allowing you to hear everything as it really is, and is probably your main problem.

The same amount of $ that you put into that mic would get you a pair of used nearfields and a old hifi amp that would serve you well.
 
i appreciate all the feedback.

even though it is out of the range of this topic, i'm not really attempting to build a proper studio up. i mean, it is me recording myself and friends in my living room for fun, for the love of making music. my myspace page explains my ridiculous 100 song project for the year and part of that is knowing that i'm not going to have the ability to engineer beyond basics.

i obviously want it to sound good, however i'm more interested in the 80 of the 80/20 rule.

that was the appeal of the sm7, it seemed like it is the kind of mic that almost always sounds good and it is extremely inexpensive.

i'll probably keep using it increasingly in hopes of restoring my hype-destroyed novice ear :)
 
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The C1 is probably just a better match for your voice. I wouldn't sweat it. Stick the SM7 on guitar cabs, keep it around for another vocalist who might need it in the future. I didn't keep my SM7; I preferred the Beyer M88, those are about the same price, both very good dynamics, but the M88 was easier to use live as it's not a piece of furniture.

The other thing is that modern production methods often hype highs because it's a cheap and easy way to get volume, not to mention that it really brings the vocal forward. Especially on the vocals, those are very hyped, very in-your-face nowadays. You'll hear that MJ recorded Thriller with an SM7, and that's true, but if he ever did another album his vocal sound would be very different now. That's not to say he wouldn't use an SM7 again, but the end result of the whole vocal production would not sound like 1982.
 
Well, it's all been said now - but you really need to get some monitors. Not better monitors, but... actual monitors. Those Sony 7506's (very familiar with them, I have six pair) are hyped tracking phones - great for musicians to hear their parts while a live band is recording (and a studio standard for that, sort of); but not at all good for monitoring or hearing nuance in your takes.

As far as the Logitech computer speakers go... well, they are actually nice to have for triple-checking your mixes in a consumer environment (like the old Auratone speakers were), but you'll never be able to do critical monitoring with them.

Essentially, you don't have monitors right now. Monitors are your ears when you work with audio. Even if you are only into this as a hobby, you should invest in decent speakers. Everything you learn while doing this thing we call recording will come faster and make more sense if you do. In the very least, it will increase your enjoyment of what you are doing immensely. A used pair of Mackie 824's will set you back about $600 if you shop around. If that's too spendy, there are cheaper, yet still decent options. Ask here, or try a search at Gearslutz or Tapeop.

Aj
 
mshilarious said:
The C1 is probably just a better match for your voice. I wouldn't sweat it. Stick the SM7 on guitar cabs, keep it around for another vocalist who might need it in the future. I didn't keep my SM7; I preferred the Beyer M88, those are about the same price, both very good dynamics, but the M88 was easier to use live as it's not a piece of furniture.

The other thing is that modern production methods often hype highs because it's a cheap and easy way to get volume, not to mention that it really brings the vocal forward. Especially on the vocals, those are very hyped, very in-your-face nowadays. You'll hear that MJ recorded Thriller with an SM7, and that's true, but if he ever did another album his vocal sound would be very different now. That's not to say he wouldn't use an SM7 again, but the end result of the whole vocal production would not sound like 1982.
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Yeah-- this is all true too.... In my humble experience:
I bought an SM7B a while back because of all of the hype around it (not the sound, rather reputation) and at the time I had a bunch of FET and tube condensers-- some of them over $1K and I took the time to A/B them (sometimes A/B/C) with a number of pres (sometimes the same pre for all mics, sometimes different pairings) on my voice and on a couple of other singers (who can actually sing). I also made a couple of recordings where I used it on guitar cab paired with a ribbon back then.

I was kind of underwhelmed with the SM7B as a vocal mic though so I sold it. I have some recording days planned in a couple of weeks and I just bought another SM7B last night because those guitar tracks are the best miked tracks I've ever gotten!
 
mshilarious said:
You'll hear that MJ recorded Thriller with an SM7, and that's true, but if he ever did another album his vocal sound would be very different now. That's not to say he wouldn't use an SM7 again, but the end result of the whole vocal production would not sound like 1982.
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The "BAD" album was also recorded with an SM7 on Michael's vocals. I had that SM7 for a while before I gave it back to Bruce Sweiden. The SM7 is a great mic for a lot of things, including vocals.
 
I love my SM7 on guitars!!! It and the I-5. I freakin' have man love for the I-5. I plan on trying out the SM7 for some screaming vocals here pretty soon. I've tried it on regular vocals and it was alright. It sounded nice. I'll keep trying it, too. It's bound to work well on someone.

I'm currently sticking to a Soundelux U195 for vocals, though. I'd like to add a Bock 151 soon but I think I want a Distressor and another pre in my Lunch Box first.
 
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Yep...White Strat is right. The SM7b is really smooth and un-hyped; most people are used to the brightness of most LDC's. You might find that, with a good pre (and the RNP is just fine), vocals recorded with an SM7b tend to be more dimensional an expressive...easier to mix.

All that said, if you don't dig it, you don't dig it. That's cool. The SM7b works on guitar cabs, kick drums, snares and acoustic guitars too. You'll kick yourself later if you get rid of it.

Frank
 
I use the sm7 on vocals all the time. It's not always the best choice, but it's rarely bad. What makes it great though, is it will allow you to smash the crap out of the vocals with an 1176. Pure rock vocal goodness. :D
 
My SM7 is one of the purchases I have been most happy with. It sounds good--maybe not great, but always good--on EVERYTHING I have ever put it on, including vocals, bass drum, bass guitar, electric guitar, trumpet, and violin. Another big plus for me is that it allows me to easily record quality scratch vocal tracks without having to even bother setting up a mic stand--I just hold it by the mount in my hand and let 'er rip. I don't need to worry about noise or anything, and I get good tracks.
 
I second your monitoring deficiency. I have a pair of Sony MDR V-600's and just got a pair of Senn HD-280's. Not that it helps having a pair of 10yo Sony's, but the 280's blow those away. In some respects they're even better than my M-Audio BX8's. You may not "need" to go so far as to get studio monitors, but I'd definitely invest in better cans.

Not that it matters if you can't get a good mix for what you and your friends will be listening on. But it might help you better understand how the SM7 might be a better mic, even if it's not the mic for you.
 
Whoopysnorp said:
Another big plus for me is that it allows me to easily record quality scratch vocal tracks without having to even bother setting up a mic stand--I just hold it by the mount in my hand and let 'er rip. I don't need to worry about noise or anything, and I get good tracks.
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You know, I've never thought about it, but that is a plus. I've done the same thing many times...the vocal actually made it to the album a few times.

Frank
 
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