U87

  • Thread starter Thread starter DarthFaders
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I own a C-1, and I know when it was introduced they put it next to a U-87 at the NAMM show. Seemingly the SP folks thought it sounded pretty close. I've heard some people say they sound very close, others say "you get what you pay for." Let's leave price out the equation since that has nothing to do with the actual sound.

Is there anyone who has done a side-by-side comparison that can share their thoughts? Thanks.
 
i thought i heard about people saying (at that show) that the C1 sounded BETTER to them than a U87...

but i think the comparison is a bad one. i'm assuming they were listening to a solo'd voice in headphones. that is no way to judge a mic's worth. you really have to hear it WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF A MIX and on good monitors to judge it properly.
perhaps the C1 is more initally impressive, as many of the sub-500 mics are these days (due to an excited high end), but i really doubt that impressiveness translates into a mix as well as a U87's dark, natural smoothness does.
 
bleyrad said:
i thought i heard about people saying (at that show) that the C1 sounded BETTER to them than a U87...

but i think the comparison is a bad one.
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Unless you're recording solo voice that will only ever be listened to through headphones on a noisy convention floor. :)
 
BradD said:
Is there anyone who has done a side-by-side comparison that can share their thoughts? Thanks.
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I've done many comparisons, and I think the C1 sounds just as good as the U87.

My girlfriend also looks just as good as Naomi Campbell, Yamila Diaz-Rahi, or Brooke Burke. Really. My POD sounds just as good as a Mesa Dual Rec, too, by the way. And the Behringer Virtualizer Pro? The TC ain't got nothing on it.
 
chessnubs, that was a really nubby thing to say. looks like we all have a little nub living inside of us.
 
sweetnubs said:
by the way the u87 is an overated mic. just like the 414.
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Well, I agree with that statement based on the new U87's and 414's. In fact the newer U87's are nothing like the old ones. The new ones are weak in many areas, yet still a good mic for certian applications if it was $600.00...

If you have spent time engineering in professional recording studios, you will get pretty much the same comment on the U87 from most of the top engineers. I have spent time with many of them, Jack Puig, David Way, Jerry Finn, Chuck Ainley, Bill Schnee, Joe Chicarelli, well the list goes on.

It is not to say a U87 is not good, it is, but it is not the mic you would use for everything...then again nothing is. The U87 is weak at 80hZ, and it is dark in the top end. Usually you have to boost at 10KHz, or 12KHz to get it to sparkle at all. Again it comes down to personal preference. If those out there hear a $1,600.00 difference between a new U87 and some of the better low cost mics, then hell, get out the check book and write away.

If the U87 does it for your ears, then that is the mic to use. Me, I don't see spending that much more when there are other darker top end mics out there for a fraction of the price, if that is what you are looking for.

This is just my opinion, so you all decide and express how you feel, but just remember, this is my personal opinion only. :)
 
as i said, i did a side by side comparison of the u87, u47, and a c1. the c1 sounds nothing like the u87, in my opinion. for this particular application, i thought that the c1's high end was way too bright, almost grating. and honestly, i thought the u87 sounded bigger in the mix than the u47. in other words, the u87 KICKED ASS on this song. do i care if it's 2000 bucks or 200 or 10,000? nope.
 
Thanks RecTech. That's what I was looking for. Now I'm curious as to why there are so many comparisons between the C1 and the U87. Do they have any similar characteristics? I've seen Alan describe the C1 as "German sounding." I'd love to hear Alan's insight on this issue.

Was the C1 designed to emulate the U87?

All that being said, I really like the sound of my C1, but have never compared it head to head to a U87.
 
Well my experience with mics in that league is very limited, but I did audition a new U87ai against B.L.U.E. KIWI, and bought the KIWI in a heartbeat.-Richie
 
BradD said:
Now I'm curious as to why there are so many comparisons between the C1 and the U87.
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It's mostly a combination of marketing hype and wishful thinking. A lot of the same things were being said when Rode first released the NT2, which by all accounts was obviously fashioning itself after the u87 cosmetically. What we really have, in my humblest of observations, is a reasonable proximity of an NT2. Not exactly the same, but very similar, and in a similar class in terms of quality, which is most important (but only at half the price). Whether or not it sounds like a U87, the fact is that it still sounds good for the money, and represents a good value. But still not a Neumann.

And I'll again have to second what Ritchie said: BLUE mics are in a class all by themselves. Unlike a lot of manufacturers, they keep on pumping out unique mics that don't try to sound like anything else. Quality doesn't seem to degrade all the time, and they don't pull switch-a-roos, marketing a completely different mic under the same name every other year, ala the 414 (which is why it is considered to be over-rated). And in their own right, they represent an excellent value.
 
"If you have spent time engineering in professional recording studios, you will get pretty much the same comment on the U87 from most of the top engineers. I have spent time with many of them, Jack Puig, David Way, Jerry Finn, Chuck Ainley, Bill Schnee, Joe Chicarelli, well the list goes on."


funny how the nubmeister said the same thing pre-empting this quote. now i'm not saying the u87 or the 414 is a bad mic by any stretch of the imagination, just overated. there are some very fine engineers that love the u87's and 414's, god knows why. perhaps they are being given samples to say that? definately wouldn't be the first time. yes my friends, professional audio is just as corrupt as everything else. maybe they are older ones. the older 414's with the c12 capsules are pretty decent and i've definately used '87's successfully. the newer ones do sound different, not shure as to why-never really researched it. also the km-184's are over-rated. i'd take a schoeps or earthworks small diaphragm over a 184 any day.
 
still, i think that there's probably a reason that nearly every microphone cheaper than a neumann is compared to a neumann.
 
sweetnubs said:
there are some very fine engineers that love the u87's and 414's, god knows why....i'd take a Schopes or earthworks small diaphragm over a 184 any day.
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I like both the 414 and the 87, for similar reasons. They are both very clean microphones. The 87 is a little smoother, which is nice, and it will give better results on a wide range of voices than most mics. It is not the BEST for every voice, but it is still great on most really good voices. I have also used on a lot of electric guitars, because it is a nice change from the old 57 in the cone thing.

As for the 414, I really like the TL version, as well as the EB, on percussion. It sounds really good on snare drum. It is better for close micing percussion than most LD condensers. It is also a very good piano mic. I have not found a singer who sounds particularly good with any of the 414s.

However, nubs, I am must agree with you about the 184. The old 84s are nicer, but I would much rather use a Schopes or an Earthworks. Even more I would want a DPA. Give me a 4011 or a 4006.

Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
The legendary "Neumann" is not the Neumann company anymore - which was bought by Sennheiser. The U87AI is a sad modern version of the older real "pre CBS" Neumann U87.

If you want a real Neumann now, buy one from the company that the Neumann family owns, Microtech Gefell.

The U87, while being a fine mic - and damn close to the bottom of the barrel of Neumann's – wasn't the mic used on all those hits, it was the U67 - which is now the ]Microtech Gefell M 92.1 S.

_____________

Dan Richards
Digital Pro Sound
The Listening Sessions
 
I still love my U87

I recently saved up some gig money and bought a very used 87 from early 1980's. When I saw how beatup it was on the outside it was I was nervous. I payed 1300.00 on ebay which I thought was good. Came with shockmount and vinyl neumann case.
Anyway when I did some vocal tracks with it I was blown away by the smoothness. I think its worth every penny myself. For my voice its awesome. Cym
 
Light said:

As for the 414, I really like the TL version, as well as the EB, on percussion. It sounds really good on snare drum. It is better for close micing percussion than most LD condensers. It is also a very good piano mic. I have not found a singer who sounds particularly good with any of the 414s.
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I agree with Light about 414's on snares and toms. I think one reason why 414's of any flavor tend to work well in these contexts compared to many other large diaphragm condensers is because they have a (-20)dB pad. This allows for cleaner close mic'ing (minimizing distortion) compared to a lot of the mics today which have only (-10)dB pads (or none at all) which are often insufficient.

Whatever the reason behind the great sound, all I know is these days I use 414's on Toms whenever possible.
 
i like earthworks small diaphgragms in the front on the beater, and for the snare wires. i like schoeps small diaphragm condensers on the toms, sometimes snare and as xy overheads. those are kickass mics. y'all know how to tune drums? you'd be suprised how many drummers can't. i love it when they go on a lunch break, i run out into the drum room and tune their drums while they are gone. when they come back they are always surprised at how good their drums sound on playback. idiots. someday when you get a really good drummer in tell them you'll give 'em a free hour or two if they show you how to tune them. it will pay for itself tenfold and two-score furlongs.
 
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