Tube question

[IronFlippy]

I'm brand spankin' new to tube amps and was wondering how tubes affect the tone of the amp. I'm pretty set on getting a Hot Rod Deluxe or Deville but since I play slightly harder rock than they're meant for, I was wondering how a tube change would affect the tone. I checked out http://www.eurotubes.com and saw that he has a Hot Rod retube kit for "high gain" purposes. Here's the description of the kit, in case you're lazy and don't want to check the site:

A pair of the JJ 6L6GC's for maximum output along with three hand picked high gain ECC83S's with one of them being balanced for the phase inverter in V3. For you players who just need a little more edge!

What changes when tubes are replaced (don't say your tone, cuz I know that )?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Outlaws]

The amp already has 12ax7 tubes in it. They are called 'high gain' because they amplify the signal the most of any preamp tube. But that doesn't equate to the same 'high gain' you are seeming to refer to.

MesaBoogie amps for example have 4-5 stages of preamplification where the signal is sent through the preamp tubes and some circuitry that causes they 'high gain' sound that is modern rock.

The Fender amps are not really desinged for that. They are more old school rock than 'high gain'. Just changing tubes won't change the sound or make it a more suitable amp. It will change the sound a bit becuase they would be a subjectively better brand, but for what you are looking for it is completely wrong. Infact you might not even notice the slightest bit of difference since you will be lookign for more gain as opposed to the better sound quality they will be providing.

Also each 12ax7 is actually 2 tubes. Depending on the circuit, either one side or both sides can be used. So the first tube in the circuit might be only one side, but the other 2-5 tubes might use both sides causing much more 'gain' than a 3 tube setup where only 2 tubes use both sides and the first uses one.

Plus there are a million other factors at play that have an equal amount of importance to what you get for 'gain'.

 

[ibanezrocks]

If you want more distortion than the amp is meant for maybe you should look into getting a different amp, unless you've played a ton of them and thats really the one for you, in which case you will finally realize why everyone likes high output pickups. Not that highoutput pickups dont sound different through a ss amp, the difference is no where near that of using them with a tube amp, you'll get a lot more preamp distortion.

 

[IronFlippy]

I'm a fan of Fender's distortion (and obviously the clean), I was just wondering if different tubes gave a tighter or looser gain. I don't really know how tube amps work, so I wasn't sure what tubes actually do to an amp. My question is more along the lines of that.

 

[Outlaws]

I'm a fan of Fender's distortion (and obviously the clean), I was just wondering if different tubes gave a tighter or looser gain. I don't really know how tube amps work, so I wasn't sure what tubes actually do to an amp. My question is more along the lines of that.

No they don't. They do, but it is not night and day. Yes, some small EL84's are going to be vastly different from some big bottle KT88's, but just one brand of 12ax7 to another is so much of a minor difference, that if you don't like the amp completely right now, I don't honestly believe it will magically fix any issues you have.

Now there will be a bunch of posts about how someones $500 diamond tubes with halo getters sound so much better and how much more tight and focus the sound is than the stock Sovteks.......

 

[Douchetacular]

MesaBoogie amps for example have 4-5 stages of preamplification... The Fender amps are not really desinged for that.

...except for the fact that they have 4 stages of gain and look remarkably similar to a Mk I preamp.

Just changing tubes won't change the sound

Duder, sovtek ax7's suck balls, and just about any other ax7 will sound better.

Also each 12ax7 is actually 2 tubes. Depending on the circuit, either one side or both sides can be used. So the first tube in the circuit might be only one side, but the other 2-5 tubes might use both sides causing much more 'gain' than a 3 tube setup where only 2 tubes use both sides and the first uses one.

What?

No they don't. They do,

Wait. I'm so confused. And piss'd off!

Now there will be a bunch of posts about how someones $500 diamond tubes with halo getters sound so much better and how much more tight and focus the sound is than the stock Sovteks.......

Ain't no magic, ain't no diamonds, just decent tubes. For $10 or less.

 

[Outlaws]

Duder, sovtek ax7's suck balls, and just about any other ax7 will sound better.

You must be a moron if you think that changing form Sovteks to JJ's will make an amp go from a rock amp to a high gain monster.

 

[Outlaws]

What?

Yes, research some info on tubes. You will see that there is not one, but two fully functional tubes contained within one 12ax7.

 

[seismetr0n]

changing tubes can more likely change the tone of the amp, the 'high gain tubes' not only boost the gain slightly but prob also boost the mids.

I own the fender hot rod deville 2x12, it can kick ass for anything from thick melting blues to ac/dc ish distortion (sorry for the oldschool reference), but it wont get much heavier than that.
I started playing hardcore/metal in a new band and the hot rod just didnt cut it anymore. I switched to a peavey ultra gain plus and it did the trick.
my suggestion is to pick the amp thats right for your sound and then you can tweak it a little with diff tubes, also i have seen some amps (carvin) that come with an internal switch for changing to different pre tubes, so you can customize your sound even better.

gl

 

[seismetr0n]

oh yeah there is also the randall? amps that have interchangable modules for maximun sound changing

 

[Douchetacular]

You must be a moron if you think that changing form Sovteks to JJ's will make an amp go from a rock amp to a high gain monster.

Never said that. Just said they would change the sound in response to your assertion that they would not change the sound because...they will.

Yes, research some info on tubes. You will see that there is not one, but two fully functional tubes contained within one 12ax7.

Newsflash. (yawn)

Depending on the circuit, either one side or both sides can be used. So the first tube in the circuit might be only one side, but the other 2-5 tubes might use both sides causing much more 'gain' than a 3 tube setup where only 2 tubes use both sides and the first uses one.

 

[bileshake]

Nothing like confusing someone who just wanted to ask a simple question.

Here's my experience spend alot of $$$ on tubes and spend alot of time quizing the guys at the thetubestore.com. JJ ecc83's are known to smooth the bite of the preamp section. Powertubes are the last and most vital line of defense. I agree, almost anything you replace Sovtecks with will sound better. But besides what name is on the tube, the plate voltage should be your main concern. Good tube shops will measure each tube and rate the voltage so they can easily be matched. What I'm getting at is break-up this is very bigfactor to your drive. If you want more drive get a better tube with an earlier breakup.

 

[EleKtriKaz]

Can't help you with the tube issue Iron, but I have the Deville 2x12 and just recently discovered that if you set something up behind it, like a roadcase, just something for it to fire into and cover the open back, that it sounds MUCH better. The distortion is tighter sounding, the clean isn't nearly as boomy. Big improvement for me. I'm just using a thick pillow for this purpose right now.

 

[Clive Hugh]

Can't help you with the tube issue Iron, but I have the Deville 2x12 and just recently discovered that if you set something up behind it, like a roadcase, just something for it to fire into and cover the open back, that it sounds MUCH better. The distortion is tighter sounding, the clean isn't nearly as boomy. Big improvement for me. I'm just using a thick pillow for this purpose right now.

Hey, that's a real inexpensive mod that has just helped my Twin, thanks.

 

[wesley tanner]

oh yeah there is also the randall? amps that have interchangable modules for maximun sound changing

seymore duncan made an interchangeable module amp in the 80's called the convertible. it rocks, i have one.

 

[EleKtriKaz]

Hey, that's a real inexpensive mod that has just helped my Twin, thanks.

Glad you found it useful. It was seriously like a revelation when I tried it. Sometimes openbacked amps just sound too boomy, especially if you're in a bad sounding room.