"transparency" of a mix

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Hi, i was listening to pearl jam today in the car, and the whole sound was just so open. The vocals were upfront, but not screaming in your ear, the bass was audible without being loud, the guitar was clean and strong but not overpowering and the drums were really infront of me.
Two weeks ago i recorded a very New Found Gloryish band, guitars leading the mix, bass providing consistent low-end, and a loud clicking bass drum. Very good sounding and loud mix, but everything seemed to be crowded. I think this is exactly what the band wanted, luckily for me, but for my own band i want space between each instrument. At first i thought this was reverb, but when everything had its own reverb the whole mix ended up washed, so the guitars ended up completely dry. Is this sound im looking for from the pre-amps? I'm lucky enough to have the beautiful preamps of an allen and heath mixer, so i wouldnt think that this is my problem. But I've heard the word transparency used so much with preamps, which seems to describe the sound i want. So finally my question is, are my preamps the issue, my use of reverb, maybe the quality of my reverb plugin, or even over compression? Any related techniques in using reverb or miking that could help would be greatly appreiciated as well.

Thanks a lot
 
I'm NO expert on this, but I know what you are talking about with that space between the instruments.

Here's a few things that I have tried to get close to that sound (with varying degrees of success.)

1- ONLY the lead vocals (and doubled lead vox), bass, kick, and snare are dead center in the mix. Sometimes harmony vocals are centered, but I tend to at least double them and pan them slightly off center.

2- Acoustic guitars miced in stereo. Makes all the difference.

3- Electric guitars are at least doubled and panned right and left.

4- Drums have to sound like the are in a nice room and full stereo. I do my best with my drum program and some nice, stereo room verbs.

And, 5....

EQ!!

Make SURE that only the kick and the bass are taking up the low end. Roll off the bass freqs. on everything else. Once you know what you're about, just record the guitars without those low freqs and it will sound even better than using the EQ.

To make sure that the guitars and the vocals aren't competing, I'll find the freqs. where they step on each other and cut that freq in the guitars. Not too much, but enough to give the vox a little more room to breath.

Are the kick and the bass mushing together too much? Cut some low mids on the kick- right in the meat of the bass sound. Or the other way around if that's what you want.

Basically, when the mix sounds right volume-wise but crowded sonically, I start listening for what frequencies can get cut for each instrument. This lets the main body of the instruments sound ring through clearly while reducing the amount of competition between them.

I hope that makes sense. I'm not that good at it, but it sure is fun to play with. :)

Take care,
Chris
 
Chris Shaeffer said:
EQ!! . . . Basically, when the mix sounds right volume-wise but crowded sonically, I start listening for what frequencies can get cut for each instrument. This lets the main body of the instruments sound ring through clearly while reducing the amount of competition between them.
Click to expand...

Very well-put. EQ-ing is even more important than panning when it comes to putting space between tracks.
 
thanks a lot, i use the double track and pan technique with guitar, but i never thought of using eq outside of the bass and kick area, i suppose its really the guitars that are the problem, i just never thought of applying the technique in that frequency range, thanks again
 
Sometimes I've had the opposite problem, where my mixes would sound TOO open. Almost like there were holes in it. Like you couldn't listen to the mix without subconciously picking up and following one instrument instead of the whole sound. Usually I'd go back and EQ things differently and things would be fine. It usually happens when I try to do a quick "headphone mix".
 
Sorry if this is a newbie question, but one thing I've never understood is why doubling a track then panning left and right sounds any different than a mono track centered. Don't both versions have the effect of sending equal volume to each monitor, and therefore being centered in the mix? What am I missing?
 
the only difference in recording two different tracks, is the sound will never be exactly the same, only exact sounds appear to be in the middle. Imagine someone standing in front of you, when they talk, they sound like they are infront of you because your ears both hear the same exact sound, there is no ear infront of you, your brain uses this method to interpret the relative positions of sound sources. Conversly if there are peopel standing to your left and right both saying the same thing your brain can hear the difference in sound and position the sound sources accordingly. So the stereo audio format tricks your brain into seeing an entire soundstage with a left, right and middle. Understanding how stereo sound works and how your brain interperts the sound is a huge part of learning how to mix. It allows you to take full advantage of the two speakers with a wide drum set and upfront vocals.
 
I think one of the tricks to space is very little reverb. Reverb blends things together. Stay dry for more space.
 
I will say that "doubling" works a lot better if you use different equipment each time you do a track of the same thing.
 
I know what you mean about the space between the instruments and I think you have found some good advice on the subject thanks to everyone here.....



The one thing I wanted to say is that, for future reference, I think that the word "transparency" is the wrong word for this.......Language is a tricky thing...


Generally, when someone says that a preamp is transparent sounding I usually take that as meaning that the pre-amp doesn't add any extra "color" to the sound and that it leaves the sound virtually the same way as it sounds when it is coming from it's source....



Just thought I throw that out there.......Good luck with your mixes....
 
Try doing your mixes first with everything panned to the center. Make space for the instruments with EQ and compression, then pan them where you like. You'll probably have to make some level adjustments when you pan, but you can end up with that space around each instrument.

Also, with reverb, pay close attention to how much pre-delay you use and how it effects the clarity of the mix. You might want to try using just a delay on some tracks to keep from muddying the mix. Try reading a little bit about the Haas effect as well - its interesting stuff and might change the way you think about reverb, etc.
 
INteresting Nave, i always though of "see through," and i certaintly will look into it gnarled
 
I substantiate Neirbo's concerns.
If you are playing your guitar through a stereo amplifier/effects, then it's absurd to clone the tracks and pan them. If the guitar is a mono track then YES, it will be fine. But if it's stereo, it will definitely sound lousy. A stereo guitar sounds already 'panned'. That is, for example, if you have delay on, then you can hear the delay on one year and the main lead on the other ear. It's kinda well mixed ..sounds like stereo chorussing.
 
some good practice would be to really study that Pearl Jam sound that your listening to and try to recreate it. If your ears are 'trained' good enough you should should be able to copy subtle images in the mix. I really think the best practice is listening to your fav. artists and try to hear what their doing.
 
amt7565 - you are right with doubling stereo guitars, what i do is record to stereo with the bass drum mic and an sm57, for a clear track and a punchy one, i record a part twice with these two mics, then bounce each to mono and THEN pan to respective sides. The only reason I would record to stereo first is just to get both mics, i suppose the same thing would happen if you just recorded two seperate tracks, maybe even give you more options, but anyway I, at least, only record to stereo to get the balance of clarity and punch that i want bounce to mono, then pan

p.s. I put the bass drum mic on the edge of the cone, and the sm57 more or less in the center of the cone, this is on a marshall 4x12, two seperate cones, i get the mic balance on the mixer than record, just incase you or anyone else was interested
 
I prefer to double the vocals. Usually two seperate takes. use one as the lead and one as the backup.
 
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