Transferring Multitrack Reels Into Computer?

  • Thread starter Thread starter bmg
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Wondering about 'rendering' now.
I carefully rode these mixes to avoid any clipping on the meters, but after checking the files with this command, most are in the red.
Why would they be clipping if the meters didn't show this while recording?
 
TheSynthDev said:
There is a way to input these tracks to a computer so each will be on its own track, but it's not possible in the first place.

--
Jason Hook. I enjoy remixing old songs using Audacity together with UnMixIt for vocal removal or isolation
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Hello Jason or whatever you would like to be referred to as. We welcome you to the site, but it is seeming as if you are out of touch with many of your comments, as well as spamming your links. Please refer to the DM and warning I have sent you.

Cheers!

Jimmy
 
bmg said:
Wondering about 'rendering' now.
I carefully rode these mixes to avoid any clipping on the meters, but after checking the files with this command, most are in the red.
Why would they be clipping if the meters didn't show this while recording?
Click to expand...
I guess I've missed something. I thought we were talking about transferring individual tracks into the computer, not mixes.

In any case, if you're at risk of hitting the top of the digital scale, you're running something too hot. The only time that would be the case would be when mastering.
 
bmg said:
Wondering about 'rendering' now.
I carefully rode these mixes to avoid any clipping on the meters, but after checking the files with this command, most are in the red.
Why would they be clipping if the meters didn't show this while recording?
Click to expand...
If you have two channels with levels close to 0, and they are panned to the same side there will be an additive effect which means it can be higher than either one by itself. Two channels of 0dB added together will give a net +3dB. Simply lower the master fader by 3 dB when you render if you are getting occasional peaks, or lower the faders on the channels.

I'm still unclear about how you are doing the transfer. Are you first transferring the 4 individual tracks from the 3340 to Reaper, or are you mixing down through the mixer and capturing the resulting mix. If the latter, make sure you pan the two channels left and right in Reaper when you render, otherwise you get a mono file as output.

If you're doing the mixing from 4 individual tracks, then you can set the pan for the individual tracks appropriately and then render.
 
Straight from the Teac, through the Clarett, to Reaper, using 4 mono tracks (which I suppose it the right way?)
 
That should be perfectly fine. Just lower the faders in Reaper and set your pan levels and EQ to taste. If the master track shows red peaks, drop the level until it goes away. I usually render, check to see what the level is below 0dB, then adjust the master level so that I hit peaks of about -1dB. Of course, if you don't feel it's loud enough subjectively, then you probably are getting peaks from things like drum tracks. Adding compression or soft limiting will raise the apparent overall level without peaking above 0.

Remember, with 4 tracks, things will add up. As an example, I took 4 identical tracks, panned center, and to get the master volume the same as the individual tracks, it had to be reduced by 9dB.

Additive volume.webp
 
Thanks - interesting.
I'm just trying to get these tracks into the digital realm, without having to go back and correct beginner mistakes.
(There are a lot of tapes, so I want to get it right, as much as possible.)
 
Just make sure your individual tracks in Reaper are not anywhere near clipping. Forget about trying to get tracks 'hot' near 0db. I assume in Reaper you can adjust your recording input levels. Shoot for around -10dbfs or less. You have a ton of headroom recording digitally and can always bring up the gain later. No need to bother with babysitting the levels while transferring them. Record them low and run all the tapes. Archive them all with separate names then you can go back later and raise the track gain when you mix them or whatever you have planned. (y)
 
Right, set the gain on the interface so the record level never gets near the top, 0 dBFs. Peaks at -10 or -12 are fine. Don't change the levels while it's transferring. You don't want to have to deal with random level changes later on. You have an extremely low noise floor in digital and massive amounts of control, so you don't need to push levels. I realize I'm saying what has already been said, but it bears repeating. In digital, 0 is not the target, it's the absolute top of the scale, a boundary you never want to hit.
 
This is straight from Focusrite:
>Like its predecessor, the Clarett+ series are not equipped with the PAD feature.
 
bmg said:
This is straight from Focusrite:
>Like its predecessor, the Clarett+ series are not equipped with the PAD feature.
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Wait, so what do you mean by this? Are you getting signal from the 4trk into the Clarett line ins that is showing clipping on the interface? And you can't lower it by turning down the gain on the interface?
 
In a nutshell, yes, but I'm able to get around it by lowering the output of the tape machine.
FR also recommends this:
>To remedy this, you'll need to gain stage on the reel-to-reel.
 
Are you going into the XLR input or the TRS input? The TRS are most likely padded down by default.
 
bmg said:
In a nutshell, yes, but I'm able to get around it by lowering the output of the tape machine.
FR also recommends this:
>To remedy this, you'll need to gain stage on the reel-to-reel.
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That's not really a problem. Looking at the service manual, if you have the 3340S, the output level is 0dB -.775V. The original 3340 is -8dB - 0.3V. It's the reason there are output volume controls on the 3340 in the first place. Lowering the volume shouldn't have any effect on the overall S/N ratio, so No Harm/No Foul. When you were mixing down to tape, it was important to push the levels as high as possible for a reason.

However, with the 3340, S/N with mic inputs is 50dB. If you are capturing digitally at 24bit audio, you have a potential of 144dB S/N, although in reality, you probably top out at around 120 with the electronics. So you can record the output at -20dB on the meters in Reaper and still have a MASSIVE amount of room before you get even close to the original noise floor.

Don't obsess over the meter readings going into Reaper except to make sure that they are coming through and not hitting peak.
 
bmg said:
TRS.
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Last I recall, you were setting your Clarett gains at 9:00. Have you tried all the way down? It's probably not a huge difference, but you evidently don't need any extra gain.

Something tells me the output of the deck is +4. I recall it being said that it's not, but it just doesn't seem to add up right unless it is.

...

I just did a little digging, and at least some people say that the 3340S puts out +6 with the outputs fully clockwise.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Last I recall, you were setting your Clarett gains at 9:00. Have you tried all the way down? It's probably not a huge difference, but you evidently don't need any extra gain.

Something tells me the output of the deck is +4. I recall it being said that it's not, but it just doesn't seem to add up right unless it is.

...

I just did a little digging, and at least some people say that the 3340S puts out +6 with the outputs fully clockwise. [Edit] The service manual confirms this. I don't think fully clockwise is the "normal" setting.
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I have a 3440 - here are the specs I was able to locate:
1.webp
I've been using the Clarett with the volume all the way down since today, and found a better skin with bigger meters.
This has made it much easier to see what's going on; the last thing I want to do is have to repeat what I've already done.
 
Sorry if I confused you with the 3340 / 3440 thing. My experiences were with the 3340, back in the late 70s. The 3440 came out around '82 but spec-wise, its pretty close to the original. The layout moved to the Tascam line which is laid out in a more "pro" style vs the consumer styling of the 3340 type. And, yes, the output spec is 0.3V rated.

In any case, everything I said earlier stands. You've got at least 50dB more S/N to play with, and it's a piece of cake to digitally boost the signal and not lose anything. When I do my transfers (the last ones were vinyl records that aren't available any more), I went ahead and captured at 88K/24bit. I can't hear a difference between the actual record and the digital capture, listening on 1) AKG headphones, 2) JBL 308s, 3 IMF TLS-50 MkIIs. I cleaned up some clicks and pops, chopped up the capture into the individual songs, faded the tracks in and out to make it silent between tracks and burned to CDR.

BTW, if you need either the service manual or the owners manual, both are available free at HiFiEngine.com, along with parts lists and schematics.
 
It seems weird to me to keep things conservative, but then raise the levels later on.
(Seems like the same thing; like robbing Peter to pay Paul.)
I know it's to avoid clipping, but it's a strange way to think, especially to an old analogue guy.

My unit says Teac, not Tascam.
My 80-8 was a Tascam, and things will certainly get more interesting when those tapes are unearthed.
First I have to obtain one, then, because those recordings were made with 456, bake the tapes.
Not to mention the DBX unit that was used when recording.
Is there a sw version that will decode them, or do I have to get a physical DX-8?
 
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