Track seperation/clarity?

[drbabbers]

All,

I am a newbie to the world of home recording, however I have been making gradual process with everything and secured a few good recordings.

My current problem is I believe with my track seperation. When my guitars/bass/drums/vocals are playing together, I struggle to hear individual parts and particularly melodies from the guitar and bass. Ill be honest and say that the mix is acceptable, but it could be a lot better!

On parts with just drums and bass for example it sounds very clear.. it is just when the guitars get involved.. I also loose a lot of the drum presence, especially when things get loud and 'full'.

Is there a recommended approach to dealing with this? Mixing technique? Mastering etc...?

Any help is much appreciated!
D

 

[drbabbers]

I just had a read through the sticky mixing thread and picked up some good tips:

Front to back: (Level)
Level gives an element of a mix it's own space. Compression on individual channels helps keep the level so that it doesn't disappear in the mix. A loud instrument will appear forward, or towards the front. A quiet instrument will appear to be back or further away.

Left to right: (Panning)
Panning allows you to give an element of the mix it's own space. For instance putting a guitar part hard right keeps it from washing out the vocal.

Up and down: (Frequency)
Frequency is the use of EQ to boost or cut frequencies that either muddy or clear the mix up. For instance 250Hz-700Hz are fairly muddy frequencies, and if you have too many instruments using this frequency range the mix could be muddy. Everything in an arrangement or mix should have it's own unique fundamental frequency space.

Far and near: (Spatial Perception)
Spatial perception is the use of reverbs, chambers, plates, delays, far mic placement, etc.. to create the illusion of space in the mix. An instrument with allot of reverb can sound like it is placed in a large hall. An instrument or a vocal with a long delay, can sound like it's in the alps. An instrument that's completely dry, will sound like it's in a small carpeted room, right next to you.

Sparse to dense: (Contrast)
Arrangement is the use of muting, and altering the recorded arrangement to create space where it is needed to accent the more dense parts. The use of density to contrast sparse is great for creating the illusion of dynamics in a mix, within minimal dynamic range. The use of a limited dynamic range makes for better listening in more casual environments, where there tends to be external noise.


I wonder if this will sort out my problem..

A total newbie question... how do I identify the frequency of each track?
D

 

[papusnance]

Hello !

I am no pro ...
but in my experience (i believe i have achieved pretty decent mixes... ill be posting them in the future)

EQ is a the or one of most important techniques you can use to make everything sound audible and nice ..
You have to train your ears , in order to be able to identify what frequencies are making this guitar sound weak when you play it along with the drums or whatever situation... learn to identify the high freqs, high mids, low mids, and the lows .. and what effects and characteristics they usually add to a track, and when its mixed.

(After some time you can go more pro to identifying more specific frequency ranges.. like being able to say "ohh, that guitar sounds really loud around the 2000hz -4000 hz.. I should cut a little bit over there.." and on and on you'll be able to identify frequencies with more accuracy)

Dont guide yourself by EQing the tracks in solo mode, they might sound really cool, but when you mix them with the other stuff its like "dude, wtf happened?" guide yourself with both, solo and mixed with everything. but pay more attention the total mix


Of course there is also , paning to the sides, volume adjustment, effects and stuff you can use for this application...But in my experience .. When i learned to use EQ correctly and understand its nature (i still have a lot to learn).. Everything changed !! I now know why this and that sounds muddy, annoying, weak or it cant be heard, and i know how to fix it most of the times...

So EQ is really important on that

you can learn to identify frecuencies with a software called "simple feeback trainer" Simple Feedback Trainer or another called sweepgen.. in sweepgen you choose the frecuency you wanna hear or a range you wanna hear and it reproduces it. the simple feedback thing is like a game where the software plays a certain frecuency and you have to guess it until you hit the correct one ... also by reading about their caracteristics and trying to really identify those characteristics in a song or sound...

for example:
lows around 150hz or lower usually add like really heavy vibrating sound .. FAT

frequencies close to 2500hz have a really annoying penetrating high pitch sound ... 5000hz also

the really high freqs are not that annoying , they add like a shiny sound, they usually are the little crispy details in a mix like the sound of the vocalist's lips ..

mids usually give presence to a sound, but too much mids makes it annoying often.. it all depends on how the track sounds naturally


I really suggest you play a simple track and fuck around with the EQ in different frecuencies... push some frecuencies to extremes and stuff

 

[mjbphotos]

A total newbie question... how do I identify the frequency of each track?
D

What DAW are you using? There are frequency analyzer plug-ins.

 

[drbabbers]

Hello !

I am no pro ...
but in my experience (i believe i have achieved pretty decent mixes... ill be posting them in the future)

EQ is a the or one of most important techniques you can use to make everything sound audible and nice ..
You have to train your ears , in order to be able to identify what frequencies are making this guitar sound weak when you play it along with the drums or whatever situation... learn to identify the high freqs, high mids, low mids, and the lows .. and what effects and characteristics they usually add to a track, and when its mixed.

(After some time you can go more pro to identifying more specific frequency ranges.. like being able to say "ohh, that guitar sounds really loud around the 2000hz -4000 hz.. I should cut a little bit over there.." and on and on you'll be able to identify frequencies with more accuracy)

Dont guide yourself by EQing the tracks in solo mode, they might sound really cool, but when you mix them with the other stuff its like "dude, wtf happened?" guide yourself with both, solo and mixed with everything. but pay more attention the total mix


Of course there is also , paning to the sides, volume adjustment, effects and stuff you can use for this application...But in my experience .. When i learned to use EQ correctly and understand its nature (i still have a lot to learn).. Everything changed !! I now know why this and that sounds muddy, annoying, weak or it cant be heard, and i know how to fix it most of the times...

So EQ is really important on that

you can learn to identify frecuencies with a software called "simple feeback trainer" Simple Feedback Trainer or another called sweepgen.. in sweepgen you choose the frecuency you wanna hear or a range you wanna hear and it reproduces it. the simple feedback thing is like a game where the software plays a certain frecuency and you have to guess it until you hit the correct one ... also by reading about their caracteristics and trying to really identify those characteristics in a song or sound...

for example:
lows around 150hz or lower usually add like really heavy vibrating sound .. FAT

frequencies close to 2500hz have a really annoying penetrating high pitch sound ... 5000hz also

the really high freqs are not that annoying , they add like a shiny sound, they usually are the little crispy details in a mix like the sound of the vocalist's lips ..

mids usually give presence to a sound, but too much mids makes it annoying often.. it all depends on how the track sounds naturally


I really suggest you play a simple track and fuck around with the EQ in different frecuencies... push some frecuencies to extremes and stuff

Brilliant post thanks!!

 

[drbabbers]

What DAW are you using? There are frequency analyzer plug-ins.

I am using Reaper with Waves based plugins. Anything in there I could use?

D

 

[Dogbreath]

Hey dude...

Check this chart.
Interactive Frequency Chart - Independent Recording Network
Glen's set this up awhile ago and it really helps to see where the fundamentals are for a bunch of different instruments.

Ya mentioned that when you bring in the guitars, things started to go awry. (distorted guitars, I assume?) Could be because of the low mid mud. Try going into your guitar tracks and EQing out the low end maybe up to 100 hz or sometimes I'll roll off up to 250 hz. Just whatever it takes for that song in that mix.
PapuDude's right...EQ is one of the biggies to wrap your head around.

 

[miroslav]

While EQ has its uses...IMO it's best to first focus on panning and individual track levels...then once you have that sorted out as best as you can in the mix, only then use EQ to further define various elements.

IOW...if you have many of your tracks stacked "on top of each other" in the same pan position and with relatively the same levels....it's going to be hard even with EQ to separate things out.

Mix EQ is always the last thing I reach for when setting up a mix.

 

[dainbramage]

Great thread!

 

[Capt Hair]

Hey dude...

Check this chart.
Interactive Frequency Chart - Independent Recording Network
Glen's set this up awhile ago and it really helps to see where the fundamentals are for a bunch of different instruments.

Have this printed out put in front of my desk. Refer to it quite often, def look this over babbers.

 

[drbabbers]

Thanks for all the advice guys. Very helpful! Great thread, great forum!

Ill do some more mixing and let you know how I progress.

 

[Dogbreath]

While EQ has its uses...IMO it's best to first focus on panning and individual track levels...then once you have that sorted out as best as you can in the mix, only then use EQ to further define various elements.

IOW...if you have many of your tracks stacked "on top of each other" in the same pan position and with relatively the same levels....it's going to be hard even with EQ to separate things out.

Mix EQ is always the last thing I reach for when setting up a mix.

good point.

 

[ecktronic]

It starts with the source as always. Clean sounding recordings from the signal chain, instruments, mic choice and placeement along with playing.
Then look into the low end of the tracks as that is where it can be common to build up when layering tracks when Mixing.

G

 

[drbabbers]

All,

Can I please confirm something..When I review the frequencies of tracks, what is the best way to do this? I know the sounds basic, but presumably there is a way to do this using an EQ VST in Reaper itself or do I need a specific plugin? I am not in front of my computer until tomorrow evening so can't check.

Often I understand the logic behind things and what I need to do, but struggle to actually achieve what I want in the DAW!

Thanks.
D

 

[miroslav]

Ideally it's with your ears..and then just getting to know what instruments cover what range.

You can stare at digital representations...but IMO, that will lead you down the wrong path because how high or low a frequency is registering on some spectrum analyzer/meter has NOTHING to do with how it sounds to you in the mix.
IOW...some frequencies may look like they are too low...but in fact they *sound* just right in the mix....etc.

 

[grimtraveller]

Hey dude...

Don't make it bad
Take a sad song and make it better........




Sorry....

 

[Dogbreath]

Don't make it bad
Take a sad song and make it better........




Sorry....

 

[ecktronic]

Yes using your ears is way way better than using your eyes. You should try to trust your ears more. Saying that using your eyes can always help.

 

[drbabbers]

I am making progress but am struggling with the whole EQ tweaking! I understand the concepts of cutting and boosting high and lows, but my struggle is applying the settings in my DAW. (I am using ReaEQ within Reaper)

For example I want to correct the frequency on a snare drum track. Currently the snare drum is hitting high frequencies up to 10khz which is causing interference with other tracks at that frequency.

Looking at the rather helpful chart I want to cut the highs and lows so the snare sits between 120-240HZ to provide a full sound. I have watched some videos on EQ and specifically ReaEQ, but I can't pull it off!!

By default I appear to be using a 4 band EQ, presumably then I am cutting band 4? Lowering it down in order to CUT the high frequency? Then also cutting band 2 and 3 down to ensure no snare frequency peaks 240HZ?

Do I need to use 4 bands? Can I not just use 2 bands so I can cut both ends of the frequency range?

Also guys.. I checked out this page:

ReaEQ - CockosWiki

Very cool.. presumably I can use the filter modes to possibly help me cut all highs or lows at the required frequency? This is simply me getting frustrated with the software!!! grrrr!!

This maybe what I need...

Lowpass:# - Cuts any frequency above the set value
Hipass - Cuts any frequency below the set value

To only allow 120mhz-240mhz?

Does this make sense?! Help please!

D

 

[miroslav]

To only allow 120mhz-240mhz?

You can't do that and still have a decent sounding snare....it will be dull and muddy.
Again...you need to use your ears...not just looking at meters. You are making wrong assumptions what to cut/boost by simply looking at the screen.