Tom Cram

  • Thread starter Thread starter tubedude
  • Start date Start date
Wow,

You guys are as informed as I am. I just heard about this thing last Friday. I'll probably beta test them in a couple of days. e-mail me offline in a week or two for information.

Tom Cram
dbx Senior Technical Support
(801) 568-7530
tcram@dbxpro.com
 
Tom,
Well, how about going ahead and posting your initial feelings and comparisons, and maybe some features of this thing, after you've had a day or 2 with it? :) We'd LOVE ya for an MP and RNMP comparison of the new DBX ;)
Peace,
Paul
 
uh,

It would be unethical of me to do a review. I could give you my impressions of the dbx unit, but not in comparison to any other box. This would be better suited to somebody who doesn't work for a particular company. I have no problem comparing features, but sonic comparisons are best left to "impartial" reviewers.

You all are probably going to look to Harvey for comparisons, I think he was/is working for FMR though.

Yo, Harvey are you still doing stuff for FMR?

Tom Cram
dbx Senior Technical Support
(801) 568-7530
tcram@dbxpro.com
 
Yeah, I'm working on the RNC manual for McQ, but that's stuff I do for friends for free. I'm retired from the world of business but I still help people out if I can. I work on Dan Kennedy's Great River Electronics web site when he needs it updated, and I'm also writing an article for Russ Jones over at audiomidi, another old friend. A few years ago, I wrote some amplifier manuals for Gibson, and I've talked to Ted Weber at VST about them re-making my old JBL speakers again. Any of my friends in the mic industry only became friends after I tried and liked their mics.

I'm pretty much out of the day-to-day music business stuff, and I don't have any financial ties to any company in the music or audio business. I've been involved in the music business for almost 50 years now, so I'm on a first name basis with most of the old farts in the industry. I don't have too many biases, either for, or against, any line of products. Every company makes some good stuff, and some stuff they shouldn't have made.

Like you, I expect the RNMP to be a killer product, but not because I happen to like Mark or respect him, but because I know how fussy he is. But when it gets here, I'll check it out like any other new toy. If it has weak spots, I'll find them.
 
Whoah there cowboy...

Harvey, I'm not questioning your integrity man. But you and I have ties to various manufacturers, so we've got to be careful. Remember how we met? I dared to comment on the RNC's feature set. Just comparing features got me into trouble, let alone a sonic comparison.

Tom Cram
dbx Senior Technical Support
(801) 568-7530
tcram@dbxpro.com
 
Ties? My God, I've probably got "ties" to almost everybody in this industry: ART Digitech, JBL, Oberheim, Gibson, Peavey, Fender, Jackson, Charvel, Akai, Weber, FMR, Great River, Manley, Rickenbacker,St. Louis Music, Eminence, Roland, Morley, - I could keep going for a lot longer.

Yeah, we did bang heads when I first got here, but I recognized that you weren't trashing the RNC, but I didn't feel you had all the facts right about it either. I would have been just as stubborn about the dbX 166 if someone starting hitting on that, or comparing it to a 3630.

It had nothing to do with ties to any company - it was just that I really put the RNC thru its paces on a borrowed Neutrik test rig when I first bought it, and it exceeded its specs by a ridiculously wide margin.

But I don't work for any company these days - I'm pretty much retired. So if I comment on something, my paycheck ain't hanging in the balance.

When I tested the stuff from the Sound Room, I found some Oktava that really sucked and said so, along with their highly touted Elation line, but I'm still friends with Taylor Johnson. When I tested the Marshall stuff, I found two mics in their whole line that I thought were amazing values, two mics that flat out sucked, and the rest were ok, but I'm still friends with Brent Casey.

Right now, I'm looking at the Studio Projects mics, and I'll post my impressions of them shortly. But the big difference is, I don't work for any of these people. And I don't do reviews for a living or for magazines.

You work 40 hours+ a week for dbx. I don't work for Mark. I'm rewriting his manual (for free) for two reasons; cuz it sucks; and cuz he doesn't have the time to do it, nor does he have the extra money to hire someone to write it. And I'm gonna point out why it's stereo only, not dual mono, and why it doesn't have noise gates. Mark can use that, or delete it - it's his company, but at least I have the freedom to write it as I see it. I'm also helping Russ (at audioMIDI) redo his website - for free. He's an old friend from my Acoustic Control days.

Fortunately, at my age, I no longer hafta be all that careful anymore. But at the same time, I have some confidences I can't betray. After so many years in manufacturing, I can usually guess (within a couple of bucks) what it costs someone to ship something out the door, so I'm privy to a lot of actual parts and labor cost information, which most consumers just wouldn't understand, since there's so much more involved in marketing a product. Parts and labor is just a part of the actual costs.

As far as you doing a review of a dbx product, I have no problem with that, since I know you to be honest and ethical, and because you work for dbx, you are unable to really comment harshly on things that may piss you off about some part of the unit. But, in general, I know you'll point out the things you really like, and it's my responsablity to read between the lines to see what areas you skipped over, or avoided direct comment on.
 
Ha!

Yep, I'm a slave to dbx. I've gotta feed my gear addiction somehow.

I think we are on the same page, though I have a hard time walking that thin line sometimes. There are things I wish I could say about certain products and companies, but it doesn't feel right. I sometimes envy Fletcher's hubris and unashamed bias. :D

p.s. I tracked down a 242PEQ, I haven't had a chance to try it out yet (too many sessions, I'll sleep when I'm dead).

;)

Tom Cram
dbx Senior Technical Support
(801) 568-7530
tcram@dbxpro.com
 
Tubedude quote:
"It appears that the 5392 is a better converter, and boasts a 116db spec, similar to the the Lucid. The 5383 sits at 110db specs. Both have bnc clock capability, which is good.
Looks like the 586 with digital outs might be my ticket. If these converters can stand up close to the lucid, I should be able to save a few dollars and buy a Lucid clock instead of the 2 channel converters."

Ehhhhhhh, Tube? Claimed dB dynamic range is not the only thing which makes a converter sound good. IMHO there is a good difference between the 2 mentioned, a difference which might appear to be small when you A/B then side by side using one signal. When you start layering tracks the difference becomes more and more apparent.

Is this called a delayed reaction? Or is it latency?
 
sjoko- "Ehhhhhhh, Tube? Claimed dB dynamic range is not the only thing which makes a converter sound good. IMHO there is a good difference between the 2 mentioned, a difference which might appear to be small when you A/B then side by side using one signal. When you start layering tracks the difference becomes more and more apparent. "

You obviously know something about these 2 preamps and/or the converters they use. Fill me in, my money lies in the tide...
:)
Paul
 
I've been involved in the development of high-end converters, and have done a lot of testing, bench as well as in real-live environment.
The chipsets of the converters mentioned are different, the Lucid (same as the one in the Apogee) performs better.

The biggest problem with people 'testing' converters is that most people go about it in a way which does not show a difference properly. Some of the reasons:

- If people are seeking a better quality AD - they more often than not will listen to various AD's on their system.
How can they tell the difference unless they use a high end DA as well? The difference they will hear will be marginal, it won't show reality.
One way to overcome this would be to record something using one AD, then do the same using an other(s) - and print the results on a CD are preferably a DVD, then play the result on various systems.

- A lot of people (and music stores) play a CD to listen to various converters. That won't tell you a lot, you are playing a low dynamic range, low bitrate media.

- One track - one sound - one voice - one instrument, even if played through an accurate monitoring system with a high quality DA, will not show the true quality of a converter.

The real quality (or the lack off..) only becomes apparent when you start stacking tracks. The more you add, the more differences become apparent, with a mix of tracks recorded through a quality converter showing detail, clarity and dynamics.
Hope that helps.

Hey Tube? if you give me your email # I'll send you some more info if you like
 
Hey Tom,

I was just wondering if you've had time to test out the new dbx Mini Pre Tube Mic Preamp? I'm sure we'd all be interested to hear about it when you get a chance.

Thanks
 
I wish the name of this thread was "dbx mic pre's" or "Tom and Harvey talk about cool stuff."

Boy am I glad I stumbled onto it. Great stuff here.


Matt
 
Well,

This thread still belongs in The Rack forum though.
:D

p.s. I'm supposed to be getting a beta of the mini pre this week.

Tom Cram
dbx Senior Technical Support
(801) 568-7530
tcram@dbxpro.com
 
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