to cross or not to cross - a marketing dilemma

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gullyjewelz

gullyjewelz

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ok, so of course everyone wants to be able to sustain themselves with their music.

here is the dilemma -- i am a hip hop artist, but especially with a keen eye for history- RUN DMC showed us all that a good cross over song can CHANGE everything!@!!!!

in fact, it can be easily argued that EVERYONE has used their formula . . but thats neither here nor there

long story short - i want to collaborate with a pop/rock artist [any takers?] to do at least one if not 3 songs that can be used as a vehicle for success [obviously] . . . .

however, the question remains . . . could such be a negative rather than a posiitive to one's "budding" music career?
 
gullyjewelz said:
ok, so of course everyone wants to be able to sustain themselves with their music.

here is the dilemma -- i am a hip hop artist, but especially with a keen eye for history- RUN DMC showed us all that a good cross over song can CHANGE everything!@!!!!

in fact, it can be easily argued that EVERYONE has used their formula . . but thats neither here nor there

long story short - i want to collaborate with a pop/rock artist [any takers?] to do at least one if not 3 songs that can be used as a vehicle for success [obviously] . . . .

however, the question remains . . . could such be a negative rather than a posiitive to one's "budding" music career?
Click to expand...

I think what should be looked at here is the success of the original collaborators and the success of their collaboration. For instance, Run-DMC and Aerosmith doing "Walk This Way". Both were successful (Aerosmith moreso simply because they'd been around longer), and the collaboration was successful, but not as successful as the standard Aerosmith version.

There are, however, exceptions to this rule. You're speaking in terms of a collaboration, but check out some Kid Rock or some Limp Bizkit for a style similar to what you're talking about. It can be done, but the biggest question is, how successful will it be?

Interestingly enough, there are people who have basically switched genres and had some success.

Bret Michaels (of the 80's group Poison) did a very country-sounding version of one of his songs ("Every Rose Has It's Thorn"), and was mildly successful. Garth Brooks, probably the biggest selling solo artist ever, did his "Chris Gaines" project, and it flopped, selling only 200,000 units.

Right now I'm listening to Trans-Siberian orchestra. They're basically a rock orchestra. They have a string ensemble, and a small orchestra, but they also have essentially a rock band. They're hugely successful.

All in all, though, I think it comes down to the singers, the song, and how well it's done.

As far as it being a negative or a positive, it's difficult to say. If you're collaborating with someone who's established in your area, it may help. That being said, the whole "combining rock with hip-hop" may be a turn-off to a large number of people who may otherwise want to listen to your music. Then again, theres the "train wreck effect". What I mean by that is that people will buy it either out of strict curiosity, or will buy it for it's "train wreck" nature, where, for some reason or another, they're drawn to it. It's kind of a double-edged sword.
 
true -- that is, i agree with you on all points -- really a lot of why i posted this was along the lines of a . . publicity stunt . . . one that could hopefully have a positive result - i.e. publicity for all involved . . . . they say . . . any publicity is good for business . . .
 
you gotta try it and see if it feels right.

if it sucks, you'll know it.

if it rocks, you'll know it.

it's not necessarily the crossover thing, but the musical thing that matters.
 
It can definitely be a negative in that you may isolate your current audience. Nelly is a great example of that.

But, he now has an even larger audience than before.

Same thing could be said for any act that goes for a more "pop" sound. Metallica, Ozzy, etc.
 
yea i wanna try it - if i cdould find a "band" or group to try it with!!
 
as long as you like the music that you are fusing with you will be fine. if you sort of don't like it and you do it anyway because it might bring you success, well I think you know what might happen. but you should always be able to stand behind anything you release. but you already knew this.
 
yea i feel u falken

it would only be released if i like the song, at the end of the process . . .
 
Lots of people "sit in" with other bands/performers so go for it. If it works you will know it and if it dosen't you will know that too. Finding the band and the song which does not clash with what you have in mind will likely be harder than working out the song(s).
 
The real question is do you want to be heard as a crosover artist? Just like mrj said, when Run DMC and Aerosmith got together, they were both already hosehold names, the same goes for Pubic Enemy and Anthax when they did "Bring the Noise." If you loke rock music and want to experament with how it sounds when mixed with your material then go for it. Just be careful about using it to break big and get your name out there, if people start to recognize you because of a cross over song, they may be disapointed when the rest of you music is more focused.

I would do the crossover song if it's somting you want to play with, but first have a few well broduced songs with good solid beats to grab people's attention first. Use the crossover material to sort of grab them again after they've already made up thei rminds that they like you in the forst place.
 
I Def. Agree With You - Although Depending On The Type Of Crossover Song -- Maybe Just A Good As Collaboration Between Two Genres . . . Again I Point To Nelly N That Country Singer And Kanye And Levine . . .

But I Feel U - I Dont Want To Trap Myself Into A Corner That I Cant Get Out Of . . . So Really Its A Double Edged Sword!!!
 
I don't really think it's a cross over until you've sort of made your name in one genre... then you cross over to another. This could end up being confused with "your style" so be careful.
 
Opinion

Usually all "genres" or "styles" are doing their own thing
on the side anyways, Why would it hurt?
It's kinda like two differant solo artists doing a duet.
If Heavy Metal can be mixed with Hip Hop and vice versa.
Why not?
I think it's really good for listeners to not feel "limited"
by "styles" and it also shows that there isn't a "battle"
between artists.

If it sounds good.
If it feels good.
(It's all music.)
 
Gullyjewelz...

Dude! I went to your CDBaby site...

Take this with a grain of salt, because I don't know much about rap, but that's some pretty good stuff you've got there, man!
 
the best part of your sentence is the last part of your sentence . . . THANKS

IF U CARE TO WEIGH IN ON THIS QUESTION: WHICH OF THOSE SONGS COULD U HEAR (POSSIBLY) ON THE RADIO AS A SINGLE? FEEL FREE!!!!!
 
Label this!

Howdy Gully!

Can I weigh in on this thread?
Crossover, crossunder, crisscross or whatevercross. quality content doesn't care what you label it. If it's so original and has relevant parts, when R&D supports multiple copies, "they'll" put another label on it.

Not to get too scientific but, If you have your musical influences, you've crossed over somewhere down the line. I'm sure you can dig what I'm saying here man. If it "takes you home" you've got to "ride that train".

I'm really not saying anything different than what has allready been said on this thread but, I hope to have encapsulated most of it right here.

"Crossover" is just another term used by marketing to temperarilly ID gendre for placement. When and if it "takes off", you can be absolutely sure, another label will be given to that gendre.

Personally, as a creative musician, I would never try to aproach a market thinking that I was a crossover artist. When your material is unique and original enough, and is broadly accepted, It shouldn't matter what labels your record label labels your stuff. :p
 
I think all that's said needed to be said. I suppose the fine line is the way it's executed.

As much as you know about hip hop, then you have to take out some time to learn rock politics. I was taught that before you break any rules, you understand them and abide by them first.

Once you know that, then you can cross the politics of rock and the politics of hip hop. However, when it comes to collaborations like this, they seem to end up from one point and one point alone- to become a crowd pleaser. Purely entertainment value for what it is.


More so when you have a name. Because lets face it, if someone is a nobody and they hook up with another nobody, then people are paying to see "just some hip hop guy with some rock band".

Not "Aerosmith and Run DMC", or "Linkin Park and Jay Z".



So you see, it's a combination of musical politics, industry politics and public satisfaction politics. The whole point is to catch your audience with something that will generate hype.

Plus that's not mentioning that there are rock artists that don't belong anywhere near hip hop.

It's a connection you'd have to make that's so solid both musically and politically, that for it to stand it's ground in front of your audience, it would have to be from two established artists. If not, you would of lost both your audience and your potrayal of image. Which means an early death to your carreer. So it's probably to early in the game to think that big.

Unless you want to call it "a jam with friends". I don't know your status, so I couldn't tell you if it would stand up as a headlining act.


I honestly would wait until you've established a solid name for yourself. That's not to say you shouldn't experiment with rock, just that it may be too soon to go public with it as a headliner.

If not, you'll turn into another 311 becoming a permanent addition to a rock band.

Of course, if you're able to come up with material so out of this world at such an early stage, then you've probably already learned how to break the rules and none of this applies.



And trust me, my 2 and a half years in Virginia where never misspent. I got my hip hop politics fed to me in Richmond. So I would definitly say you'd have to be close to another Pharrell with the hip hop/rock blend if you're going to make some waves in VA.
 
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"The worst thing you can do in this industry is to take yourself seriously"

Of course, this is not to say, don't take your art and craft seriously! :eek:
 
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