Time to stock up on Behringer gear!

[Ed Dixon]

Their use mode makes a difference. Some folks here are asking about live use. There, where noise is much more of an issue, many of the nuances of high end gear are mostly lost.

For others who may be recording at home, unless the rest of their gear is reasonably good, and their enviropnemtn matches, high end pieces may do little good. It's kind of a "the chain is only as strong as the weakest link" issue.

Ed

 

[robgb]

WHY, does the Behringer brand mean "rubbish" to some of the members? I am new to this forum and can't get a educated answer to this question.

Among musicians, like any other profession, there is a certain elitism that develops -- usually the blokes who must compensate for their lack of talent by bashing anything in their path.

Behringer has some great products and some lousy products, just like every manufacturer. But the elitists seem to think that it's the price, or the "designer" label on a piece of equipment that determines its value.

Which, of course, is ridiculous. I remember a guitarist once saying (and I'll probably get the quote wrong) that there are no bad guitars, only bad guitar players. A great player can make even the most inexpensive guitar sing.

While this is a bit of an exaggeration, there's certainly a lot of truth there as well.

Many have reported that in a side by side comparison, the Studio Projects C1 condensor mic sounds nearly identical to a U 87, even though it costs only a fraction of the price. How many elitists do you think are groaning right now?

Beheringer enables a lot of people who can't afford to be elitist the opportunity to build their own studios, and they manage to provide decent and sometimes excellent equipment to do it with.

 

[robgb]

What would a good alternative to my B-1 Large Diaphram mic be ?(I paid $150 cdn for that, so lets say I'm willing to spend $500 now).

As I said above, this mic has been favorably compared to the Nueman U87:

http://www.studioprojectsusa.com/c1.html

Now, there will undoubtedly be those who will scream foul at this suggestion, but everyone I know who has one swears by it, and when Studio Projects itself did a side by side comparison at a show, few "professionals" could tell the difference between the two.

 

[SonicAlbert]

Among musicians, like any other profession, there is a certain elitism that develops -- usually the blokes who must compensate for their lack of talent by bashing anything in their path.

Behringer has some great products and some lousy products, just like every manufacturer. But the elitists seem to think that it's the price, or the "designer" label on a piece of equipment that determines its value.

Which, of course, is ridiculous. I remember a guitarist once saying (and I'll probably get the quote wrong) that there are no bad guitars, only bad guitar players. A great player can make even the most inexpensive guitar sing.

Please re-read earlier posts. What I was stating was in fact that the *sound* of a unit determines its value. And better designed and built boxes cost more to create, just from the nature of the extra time that must be put into testing the design and parts, and the cost of better parts themselves.

Also, what is not necessarily known, is that some gear costs more because of what parts *aren't* used. Like for example the Empirical Labs Distressors. They use high quality pots, and the pots are hand matched very carefully. Any pot that doesn't meet the high spec is tossed out. So that cost does have to be passed on. The units ship with great pots, knobs, etc., and they all match extremely well, not an easy thing to do believe it or not. Do you really think that Behringer does that?

Come on, it's silly to compare mass produced gear with the cheapest possible components, built by nearly slave labor in China to handmade gear using the finest components built by the designer and a small crew.

This is what we are talking about here. This is why good gear costs more. This is not "elitism", this is facts.

There's no problem that Behringer serves the hobbiest or beginner market, or anybody who just needs it cheap and quick. There's no problem with that at all. But let's just not get confused and think that the gear is anything more than that. Discussions about quality are totally beside the point in this realm. It's gear designed and built to hit a price point, period.

The business about no bad guitars, only bad players is cute, but not very real-world. If you work with working musicians, the folks that are actually making a living at it by playing shows or sessions full time, you'll find that every single one of them takes great care with their instruments and equipment. They have really, REALLY good stuff with them. In fact, most musicians are extremely proud of their instruments (I include synths and fx racks in this), and most musicians spend as much as they possibly can on having the very best gear they can afford.

This is consistent everywhere, in my experience. Nobody shows up on a professional gig with a shitty guitar. Doesn't happen. If they did, they'd never be asked back because it would sound bad, no matter how good a player they are. So that statement about no bad guitars was not realistic at all.

Incidentally, I've never seen a pro player show up at a gig with Behringer gear. Never. You see the DI boxes from time to time, and quite often the graphic eq's. But those are always the house systems, in the houses where they have no budget. Houses that have a budget and can buy whatever they want never have Behringer in their racks. I don't doubt that there are probably great players out there that carry some Behringer, but I'm saying that I personally have never witnessed it.

 

[turnitdown]

I remember when Zakk Wylde used to use Univox Les Pauls.... back in our club days... Then he got the deal w/ Ozzy, and bought Les Paul Customs...

I guess what I'm trying to say is... you make due, w/ what you can afford. Or something about the guitar player thing... I forget... it's late... Oh, a great player sounds good on a cheap guitar, but getting rid of my Behringer headphone amp and DI box won't make my mxes stop sucking....

Good night...

 

[wilkee]

At least this thread has maintained a level of objectiveness and has not descended into another bout of mindless drivel.

I am a fan of Behringer most pepe's on this forum now that, I also am a fan of high quality recordings. How a piece of equipment does its job is the only thing that is important to me. If I need to spend money to acheive my aims then money is spent full stop.
What really annoys me is the people that just jump on the bandwagon and bad mouth a piece of gear without either listening to it or even having the ability to recognise a good sound if they heard it.

Any piece of gear I buy is auditioned thru my main home monitors (ATC scm50's) if it does its job it stays if not Ebay gets another listing.

I have never never heard a piece of Berry gear that sounds shyte, for me most of the stuff does its job no more no less. I have also never seen a badly made piece of Berry gear nor "cheap" components, they are by no means SOA but for the price they perform way beyond what we have the right to expect.

As for the guys that keep banging on about "cheap chinese labour etc" have a look on the labels of some well respected brands and be prepared for a shock.

 

[turnitdown]

Here's something to consider....

Anyone hear Giles117 (Bryan Giles?) recordings lately??? Anyone check out his gear roster??? Loads of Behringer gear, in the audio path too...but his productions sound better than most... SO, don't blame the gear.... it's the talent....

That said, I have no excuse.... I could have a freaking Neve console and a rack of Pultes, Distressors etc, and still sound like poo.

 

[johneeeveee]

I've tried several of their pieces... and didn't like them at all... even their DI box I found quite noisy and colored-sounding compared to my Radial JDI....

If they can't even get a simple DI box right, hard for me to beleive they have a handle on much else!

hey bear, i use a countryman di in my live acoustic guitar rig, and i've been reading and hearing about the radial passive jdi box. i'm thinking about getting one... you think it sounds as good or better than the countryman?(which i like, but am looking at other stuff)
thanks in advance - jv
ps - i gotta agree with the sound of the behri di's... definitely did something weird to my guitar sound... muddy. i have a euro 802 that i use for headphone monitoring and holding papers down on my desk... so far so good, and i got it for $29... not bad for that.

 

[acorec]

As I said above, this mic has been favorably compared to the Nueman U87:

http://www.studioprojectsusa.com/c1.html

Now, there will undoubtedly be those who will scream foul at this suggestion, but everyone I know who has one swears by it, and when Studio Projects itself did a side by side comparison at a show, few "professionals" could tell the difference between the two.

Marketing hype and total BS. There was no sideby side comparison unless you call a great comparison done in a noisy hall through headphones a fair comparison. I have called Alan on this many times and he denies that ant comparison was ever done many times.

 

[boingoman]

hey bear, i use a countryman di in my live acoustic guitar rig, and i've been reading and hearing about the radial passive jdi box. i'm thinking about getting one... you think it sounds as good or better than the countryman?(which i like, but am looking at other stuff)
thanks in advance - jv
ps - i gotta agree with the sound of the behri di's... definitely did something weird to my guitar sound... muddy. i have a euro 802 that i use for headphone monitoring and holding papers down on my desk... so far so good, and i got it for $29... not bad for that.

Thumbs up on the Radials. Both the J48(active) and JDI are top-notch. The difference between the JDI and other passive boxes I've tried is 9 out of 10, and the difference between the J48 and other actives is more like 5 out of 10, if you get me.

I have behri, Whirlwind active and passive, and Countryman 85 in my inventory. I got 2XJDI and a J48 a couple weeks ago, and have been comparing.

I haven't compared the JDI and the type85. The 85 is active, the JDI passive. I generally use actives and passives for different apps, so haven't really cross-tested the JDI against my actives.

I will say this: the JDI blows away my other passive boxes by a mile. It's so much better I can't say anything because I won't be able to stop. I ran keys, active instruments, and mixers through it. It sounded a mile better, and handled much higher signals without distorting.

The J48 is better sounding than my type85 and Hotbox, on active sources. It also handles much hotter signals without clipping with full 48V phantom on each box.
On passive instruments, it has a little less high end. It has less input impedance than the 85 and Hotbox, so no surprise there. It doesn't sound bad. You are dealing with a top line DI, and comparing it to others in the same class. Any differences are because of that, not because it has flaws. It's like the difference between 198mph and 200 mph.
In any case, the extra high end on the Hotbox sounded crappy, and I usually roll off a little highs live anyway.
I will keep my 85s for really dark sources, but the J48 is my fave overall by enough to make it my #1 choice of the three.

I haven't put the JDI against my type85 or Hotbox yet because of the general rule:
Active DIs for passive instruments
Passive DIs for active instruments and line-level sources

So I've been going passive vs. passive and active vs. active. Cross testing is next, though I won't bother testing a passive instrument in the JDI.

But I have no doubt the JDI would at least equal the 85 or Hotbox in sound quality, and probably handle more input without distorting.

 

[johneeeveee]

boingo... i am using the countryman for live acoustic guitar (great k&k pickup in a little 00-15 martin). i have used many different active and passive di's, and for some reason i have liked the way this guitar sounds through a passive di... more natural... not hyped at all, and i figured the jdi might be a good choice. thanks for the input. i will go demo a radial, although they re usually a special order item at the local stores here in portland, or.
much appreciated

 

[boingoman]

LOL. Yes, things are a bit different now. I suppose I should have said "magnetic pickup instrument" instead of "passive instrument". They used to mean the same thing.

 

[johneeeveee]

... actually the k&k isn't a magnetic pickup... it consists of 3 small transducers attached to the soundboard in the guitar. most natural pickup i ever tried, and i've had most of'em... lr baggs, sunrise, fishman, pickup the world, etc. i'm gonna take a chance and order a jdi and see what's what. everything i've read about radial has been glowing. wish me luck.
thanks - jv

 

[Alexi]

hey there,

the ecm 8000 is great, i'd love to buy it for such a tiny price,
always remember: you need skills not the gear......i thought those were your words once blue bear......

 

[boingoman]

... actually the k&k isn't a magnetic pickup... it consists of 3 small transducers attached to the soundboard in the guitar. most natural pickup i ever tried, and i've had most of'em... lr baggs, sunrise, fishman, pickup the world, etc. i'm gonna take a chance and order a jdi and see what's what. everything i've read about radial has been glowing. wish me luck.
thanks - jv

I figured it wasn't magnetic when you said it works well with a passive DI. Passive magnetic pickups generally don't. Passive DIs don't have enough input impedance, and severe tone losses are the usual result.

Back in the day, "passive" meant passive and magnetic. Not necessarily, anymore. Those K&K pickups look pretty cool. I may have to do some ordering of my own. I haven't been happy with anything yet.

 

[johneeeveee]

... they're the closest thing to a mic i've found. if you play in a loud band i wouldn't recommend the k&k's, but for moderate volumes or solo stuff (i tour with a piano player and sometimes upright bass), they are fanfkingtastic. now you got me going, and isn't this a behringer thread ? - jv

 

[SonicAlbert]

I have also never seen a badly made piece of Berry gear nor "cheap" components, they are by no means SOA but for the price they perform way beyond what we have the right to expect.

If you've seen a piece of Behringer gear, then you've seen cheap components. Behringer is the definition of cheap components.

I have no dissapointments with Behringer gear because it lives up to my expectations, which are basically nothing.

For those that keep claiming great or famous musicians use Behringer gear heavily in their rigs, can we have some names please? Some photos of big sessions or tours where musicians have racks loaded with Behringer gear? I'm willing to believe, but show me.

One major problem with low end gear is that the sweet spot is very very tiny. Every piece of gear has a sweet spot. Geat gear that is of high quality has a wide sweet spot, and cheap gear has a tiny sweet spot. So I understand how decent recordings can be made with cheap gear: you have to play within that tiny sweet spot to sound golden. That's limiting, but possible.

For example, take something like the Alesis Nanoverb (which I used to own). It actually sounded good if you found that one spot where the noise was low and you hit the box just right. But outside that, and you run into problems with noise or the thing just not sounding good. I have yet to use a budget box that isn't like that. Some don't ahve any sweet spot, but *usually* there is a setting where you can get it to sound decent. The problem is, you are working around the gear limitations, which is not necessarily what is ideally best for that track.

 

[boingoman]

For those that keep claiming great or famous musicians use Behringer gear heavily in their rigs, can we have some names please? Some photos of big sessions or tours where musicians have racks loaded with Behringer gear? I'm willing to believe, but show me.

Behringer users

I'm not a big behri fan, but some sure are. The FOH guy for Metallica uses a ton of it, as do some pretty heavy monitor guys, who could have anything they want. A lot of heavy metal FOH guys use it. That may have it's own implications.

 

[notbradsohner]

BlueBear, I quoted you in my sig line from a while back, becasue I thought that was such a good thing to tell people when they ask about gear. I even think your sig line was something about "george massenburg getting better results with a portastudio than a monkey with a neve" for a while. Would you tell people to get a neve or an ssl or an mci console if they didnt know what they were doing? or would you tell them to get a behringer mixer and see if they can learn off that?


sometimes you MUST say behringer, wether you like it or not

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Brad, re-read my posts here -- I'm not advocating people not buy cheap gear - only that they shouldn't have expectations that it is equal to high-end gear... something many beleive due to the marketing hype the manufacturers dish out.

I'm also saying that people's ears will tell them if/when a gear upgrade is in order...