Time to stock up on Behringer gear!

[wilkee]

I was not sure how the ADAT interface worked, as the docs are a little light in this area. This DDX unit came with one ADAT unit, so we arleady have that one. It was not clear from the docs that you could connect two ADA8000 units at the same time. With that approach we would have all 32 channels and a single mixer, which is better. Today we use a max of 16 channels at a time in any of the 3 services, so doing the 1-16, 17-32 switch should work fine.


Ed

Remember that all of the 28 Mic inputs would be available at the same time its just that the Input switches (1-16 & 17-32 ) have to be pressed to allow alterations to be made. It sounds like one ADA8000 unit would suit you just fine.

For the extra Aux outputs you could set up sub-groups and pass these on thru the ADAT ouputs.

Tony

 

[Ed Dixon]

The aux send problem relates mostly to vocals verses instruments. We handle them differently in aux sends based on the stage moniutor system. With the output from one mixer into channel 13/14 in the second, you would lose that separation somewhat, unless the pan control made up the difference.

The approach with ADA8000 units sounds better and gives us all 32 channels to work with. Then all channels are separate with full control on each.

Ed

 

[robgb]

You are right, silly me, I should listen and believe all reviews. I have been doing it wrong all my life...............

Interesting that you just IGNORE what these people have said. Of course, you would have to try the mic yourself -- that's a given. But since you're obviously tied to your opinion, it's doubtful you'll even give the mic a listen DESPITE the glowing reviews (and I have more, from real users, if you like). And that's YOUR loss.

This is exactly the type of elitism I'm talking about. It's great to be skeptical, in fact it's WISE to be, but while you certainly wouldn't make your decision based on a review, why not at least give the mic a try? These users aren't saying this stuff just to get their name up in lights.

The C1 is a GREAT mic. I can't compare it to a U87 because I don't have one. But it certainly outclasses many other mics far beyond its price.

 

[Ed Dixon]

Remember that all of the 28 Mic inputs would be available at the same time its just that the Input switches (1-16 & 17-32 ) have to be pressed to allow alterations to be made. It sounds like one ADA8000 unit would suit you just fine.

For the extra Aux outputs you could set up sub-groups and pass these on thru the ADAT ouputs.

Tony

If one ADA8000 has 8 inputs, I believe we would need two as currently all 32 channels have something connected. It does sound like the ADAT outputs could be used for other aux send type options.

Ed

 

[acorec]

"The C1 is a GREAT mic. I can't compare it to a U87 because I don't have one. But it certainly outclasses many other mics far beyond its price.[/QUOTE]"

There ya go. Why should I try a cheap mic that supposedly sounds like my two u87s when I already have the real ones?

I discount most all reviews for the same reason everyone should. There are:
different rooms, pre-amps, mixing boards, recorders, skill levels in millions of combinations. I seriously doubt that the pro-studios will sell their u87s in favor of any mic that costs ten times less in the hopes that they will get the same quality of sound. Until YOU use U87s for a while on alot of sources and stack some full mixes, you will never know why there is a difference. Reviews are helpful if they come from someone you trust, and you can verify yourself the condition under which they are used/tested. Ultimately, it is in your signal chain that the real truth will be known and then you will like a certain mic, or hate a certain mic. If you are happy with your C1 mic, then use it and be happy. I use mine and have had them for twenty years and they still function and look as new. I also don't need quoted drivel from "experts" and reviewers as I have never questioned the ability of my U87s to capture what I need to capture. It is all up to me to make them work. The U87s are certainly not the best mics in the world and for some reason it becomes the "standard" to judge the slew of chinese mics that come in droves. It should be obvious at this point that with all the people singing the praises about how certain mics are so close, if not better that the U87, these people should sit down and re-evaluate their skills instead of looking for "the best mic, pre-amp, etc. for under $100"


"...This is exactly the type of elitism I'm talking about. It's great to be skeptical, in fact it's WISE to be, but while you certainly wouldn't make your decision based on a review, why not at least give the mic a try? These users aren't saying this stuff just to get their name up in lights."

I have tried many of these budget mics in my studio and can say that these things tend to fall apart and show their flaws when used in a dense mix. The upper level mics show their true worthiness in this instance. If you track simple and keep the mix lite, then I agree that most of the budget mics will do a good job.

Inclosing, these users ARE EXACTLY trying to get their name up in lights. That is what they are paid to say. The first page in the magazine is a review of product X and the next page is an AD for product X. Pretty simple.

 

[CoolCat]

criteria met

My DDX has been dragged around England and used at live venues for 2 years now with not an hint of bother and like I said in an earlier post has had beer, Indian curries, and piss over it at some time or other.


Tony

wow. now there's a new criteria test of equipment....

beer,curries,and piss over it.....

fhkng funny. thanks.

 

[distortedrumble]

106 posts.....and still going....and more arguing about U87s and what mics come close to it. LOL lets face it, until neumann knows a mic that is a direct attack on its U87s and its being sold for a thousand or so cheaper...its not going to worry about it because its been "Elited". people will pay thousands for the mic because they know its good...others will pay thousands for it because they think they have to have it to be respected. same thing with pro tools. same thing with gucci, prada, louie vouton and versace. if you always compare your stuff to stuff you cant afford. you'll give the "haves'" bigger heads and you'll always say "almost" and "so close".

 

[noisedude]

You're a crazy guy ... but you make a good point.

 

[robgb]

Inclosing, these users ARE EXACTLY trying to get their name up in lights. That is what they are paid to say. The first page in the magazine is a review of product X and the next page is an AD for product X. Pretty simple.

Complete B.S. While I have no doubt that there are reviewers who take payoffs somewhere in the world, they are few and far between. I used to do software reviews for a national magazine and nobody ever gave me a red cent and I was free to say what I wanted about the product. In fact, few companies have the funds to be paying for reviews. So, until you've walked the walk, don't disparage those who have.

Secondly, nobody is asking YOU in particular to buy a Studio Projects mic. You were the one who chimed in on the subject by saying the comparison is b.s. All I'm saying is that BEFORE you attack the mic, at least give it a listen. The fact that it's a budget mic does not necessarily mean its a crappy one.

Do you attack a song or proclaim it a work of genius before you've even heard it?

It doesn't matter a hoot if you've tried a dozen budget mics. The question is, have you tried the C1? Doesn't sound like it. Yet you jump to a conclusion based on what? Snobbery. Nothing else.

Like I said, take the reviewers with a grain of salt, but if most of them are giving a piece of equipment the nod, then you'd be foolish not to investigate.

 

[SonicAlbert]

If one ADA8000 has 8 inputs, I believe we would need two as currently all 32 channels have something connected. It does sound like the ADAT outputs could be used for other aux send type options.

Assuming the DDX allows this kind of routing. I believe the structure is: four internal sends to onboard processors, and four multi outputs. Not sure if the four external sends can be routed to anything other than the four multi outs.

The DDX is very light on returns, as in: it has none. So if it is even possible to use the ADAT outs as sends, you have to burn some of your 32 input channels to get the effects back into the mixer. The internal effects can be returned without burning channels, but not anything you send to outboard boxes.

You might be better off getting two of them and using the second for extra inputs and fx returns.

 

[MadAudio]

I just wanted to say that despite my earlier snide comments, I love my V-Amp Pro and love my Bass V-Amp Pro even more. I'm also fairly fond of my Composer, but I'm probably gonna sell my Multigate ('cause it's just not that good). So there.

 

[Ed Dixon]

The sends are not for effects, but for aux sends. Today we have 3 monitor systems, tape out, lobby out, and vocals out (for stage monitor system). that's six, and the DDX only has 4. By using the ADA8000 outs, we get extra if I understand how things work.

Ed

 

[mattkw80]

The fact that this conversation is even going on makes
me (as a newbie) scared to try Behringer stuff.

What (generally) is an affordable good-bang-for-your-buck
pro audio company you can trust ?

Shure ?

 

[Ed Dixon]

There are lots, depending on what you need. Each firm has their good and bad products.

Ed

 

[boingoman]

The fact that this conversation is even going on makes
me (as a newbie) scared to try Behringer stuff.

Don't be. It functions well within it's limits, and very well for it's price range. There is better, and there is worse. And like Ed said, every company has good and bad products.

You have stumbled into a long running and sometimes bitter debate played out on BBS all over the web for years. The real title of each of these threads should be "Hey, I'm bored. Let's talk about Behringer. Anyone want to play?"
Take ten pro-behri guys, ten anti-behri guys, and a few neutrals, stand back and watch it go. Threads that consume people and burn with a passion like few others in audio.

Unless they are about a specific piece of gear, most are a waste of bandwidth, and a waste of time to read, unless you like esoteric, convoluted, and sometimes torturous logic and rationalizations by people basically listening to themselves talk about nothing.

It is similar to huge threads discussing Microsoft, a company with a similar history to behringer. They stole the designs for some of their first breakthrough products, made a shitload of money, and make a ton of gear to this day, and actually now make stuff that they did themselves. And they sell it all very cheap. And they are never going away. This pisses a lot of people off for various reasons, some of which you read in this thread. And those people spark off the supporters. Like I said, the music biz Microsoft. Not as pervasive, but just as emotionally discussed.

And in the end, the threads turn out to be about nothing, pretty much. You won't figure out anything about Behringer gear reading a thread like this.

Behringer will be making gear long after this thread passes like a bad burrito. And it will work fine, or great, or whatever, within it's capabilities.

I'm yapping now, but I know I'm full of it.

Actually, this thread has the redeeming value of an impromptu discussion of Behringer's digital mixer started by Ed Dixon, and has made me decide to look at it more closely than before. Thanks, Ed.

Ed's last post pretty much contains all you need to know, by the way.

 

[robgb]

Except that the argument doesn't really have anything to do with Beheringer at all. It's more about our very human instinct to only find value in goods or services that have a) a higher price tag; and/or b) a designer name.

Or maybe it's not human instinct at all. Maybe it's just advertising.

 

[boingoman]

Except that the argument doesn't really have anything to do with Beheringer at all. It's more about our very human instinct to only find value in goods or services that have a) a higher price tag; and/or b) a designer name.

If you say so. I think you may have missed that I wasn't paying attention and don't care . I'll definitely agree it has little to do with Behringer or Behringer gear or rebates, the actual subject of this thread. I was just answering a newbie's question, laying it out how I saw it. I am not involved in the argument and do not wish to be.

Ed's and Sonic's etc. gear talk and the kid's question are the only things I have bothered to pay attention to in this thread. The rest of it is mostly crap, with some of your bits being among the crappiest.

I think the whole thing is a testament to our human instinct to talk about ourselves and our opinions, and thinking someone else wants to or is going to listen. But that's just my opinion. Maybe people just like to type. Or are actually revealing mega-truths never before considered by man. I'm not going to worry about it either way.

Or maybe it's not human instinct at all. Maybe it's just advertising.

If you feel driven to try to figure it out, far be it from me to stop you. Sounds like it could get pretty esoteric and convoluted by the end. Don't torture yourself too much about it, and don't forget to post when you figure it out. I can't wait to read it.

 

[SonicAlbert]

The sends are not for effects, but for aux sends. Today we have 3 monitor systems, tape out, lobby out, and vocals out (for stage monitor system). that's six, and the DDX only has 4. By using the ADA8000 outs, we get extra if I understand how things work.

So you actually need to use them as busses more than aux sends? The DDX is pretty well loaded as far as busses, as it has 16. The only question again is the routing capabilities. The DDX seems to need to assign everything in groups of eight, but that should be fine for you.

As far as makers of inexpensive gear that you can trust, that's a bit of a tough one. I'd have to say that there is a lower limit to that, as far as cost. In other words, if you go too low in price there simply isn't a whole lot of upside as far as reliability or long-lastingness. Things will fail sooner than later. Also, as have been mentioned, you often ahve to pick and choose products from a manufacturer. They might make one or two great products, but others might be shoddy.

In general, I like low cost products from companies that also make high end products, or at least mid-market products. I feel like the designers will tend to carry the philosophy of quality down into the lower end products a bit more than a company that exists only to make low end products.

So for mixers, a company like Yamaha or Soundcraft would be preferable to Behringer or Alesis, for example. I also like older professional products that are now available used for a lower price. I'll write more on this tomorrow, I have to go now. There are some deals to be had on some good gear.

 

[wilkee]

Wow, there is so much cool stuff in this post to respond to!

First, equating Behringer with Rolls Royce is just so far off base it is laughable. Behringer is like Kia or Dawoo, the cheapest and flimsiest cars out there. So the musical comparison is really closer to comparing a Rolls with a Kia. Guess which has better parts and which is the better car?

.

If you think I was equating Behringer with Rolls Royce you are very wrong. I was pointing out that with the advent of high quality mass production and all the economies of scale that this brings then items of equipment can be made at prices that would have seemed ridiculous a few years ago, my choice of Rolls Royce was not very well made

Some of you guys use two equations for equipment quality:-

Inexpensive = Shit

Expensive = Good

All I ever do and a few others on this forum is to try and put some objectivity into it all.

Regarding the quality of recordings, I was talking about Headline artists. Are you suggesting that the big studio's do indeed have Berry,Nady,Samson, etc gear?

Tony

p.s. Actually I should have said three equations

Behringer = Shitty Shit

 

[wilkee]

wow. now there's a new criteria test of equipment....

beer,curries,and piss over it.....

fhkng funny. thanks.

Its actually had a few more things than this thrown on it but just in case there are some kids viewing???

I have also been chatted-up by a woman who was totally fascinated by the motorised faders!!!

Tony