THIS IS WIERD (with pics)< CAN YOU EXPLAIN ?????

[metalj]

Ok, so last Friday I did about the weirdest show Ive ever done. My band played at a horsetrack !!! The place is called Canterbury Downs, just out side of Minneapolism Mn.

Even though that is weird enough playing at a horse track, right next to the "apron" where the horses actually run by (and kick dirt on us) while they are racing.

The weirdest part to me was I played the whole show with a little H&K 20 watt tube amp 1x12 combo, and thats it for amplification. Nothing was mic'd or run through the PA except for vocals.

THis is an outdoor venue, that holds thousands of people, I think max capacity is close to 10k, the attendance that night was right about 3000. My point being that it is a huge outdoor venue.

But anyways I had people in the crowd that were up in the higher balcony that said they could hear everything just perfect. If you notice our other guitar player was playing a Marshall 300watt 1/2 stack, and I have a little tuber on the left.

how is that possible?

I might add the venue asked us to only be as loud as "1 city block could hear us" so that is why i thought a small amp would be needed. I did not know there would be NO mic's and nothing would run through the PA except for vocals until I got there and about crapped. But somehow the rock gods made me loud enough to be heard.

check out the pics.

 

[gbondo9]

Very cool man.

Can't explain the phenomena...but it's cool regardless!!!

 

[Harvey Gerst]

The difference between 20 watts and 300 watts is about 11 or 12 dB, assuming both amps were being played wide open.

 

[the_crowing]

The difference between 20 watts and 300 watts is about 11 or 12 dB, assuming both amps were being played wide open.

And, if I'm not mistaken, your co-guitarist seems to be playing a Marshall Mode Four, which is a solid-state head, meaning it's probably not being played at full volume since they were designed to have loads of extra headroom to compensate for the sterile tone that usually comes with an SS amp run wide open.

 

[metalj]

And, if I'm not mistaken, your co-guitarist seems to be playing a Marshall Mode Four, which is a solid-state head, meaning it's probably not being played at full volume since they were designed to have loads of extra headroom to compensate for the sterile tone that usually comes with an SS amp run wide open.

Yeah it is a mode4 amp he uses. Im sure he wasnt wide open, but i was very close.

I guess the main thing im suprised that one, i could even be heard, and two that the whole place could hear the entire band clearly. I mean nothing except vocals was going through the PA. Drums, bass, guitars were NOT mic'd.

In a place that big which is about 4 times wider than the picture you see and is about as long as maybe the one side of a pro football stadium, you would think maybe the first 5 rows and maybe only two seating section could hear us.

I guess its a lesson on acoustics. Even though I dont understand it.

 

[TexRoadkill]

Don't forget that people are often idiots or just trying to be nice and even though it sounded like echoey crap they said "It sounds fine."

 

[metalj]

Don't forget that people are often idiots or just trying to be nice and even though it sounded like echoey crap they said "It sounds fine."

Yeah I know what you mean, BUT these people were musicians themselves and took it upon themselves to move around all over the stadium to listen for us so we got a balanced mix.

Not your typical listeners that think everything sounds good.

 

[boingoman]

In a place that big which is about 4 times wider than the picture you see and is about as long as maybe the one side of a pro football stadium, you would think maybe the first 5 rows and maybe only two seating section could hear us.

I guess its a lesson on acoustics.

Really it's a lesson about the fact that people play too loud 99% of the time, and that most people don't need fancy PA systems, just a little somethin' for the vocals.

 

[R.A.E]

The physics of sound are incredible. I took acoustics last semester and it was a crazy class. All the demonstrations he showed us was like, wtf, sound can do that? If you do shit the right way, you will barely have to make a sound a all to be heard around the world.

 

[NRS]

Being the design of staduim style seating is to give each spectator a completely unobstructive view of the floor level, it would seem to make sense that sound waves would also benifit from that same unobstructed path to the spectators ears. ("One city block" is probably about the distance from the stage to the highest seats).

I'm guessing its also possible to some degree that volume efficiancy to the highest seats in a stadium might also pick up some steam due to the general funnel like shape of a stadium whch is not so unlike a bullhorn or cupping your hands over your mouth to yell louder.

 

[Jouni]

bearing in mind that auditoriums and old greek theaters were same shape, and ment for people speaking with no amplification. ...Could be a reason.

Also the difference between transistor and tube watts, and how something cuts through in the "mix", might help along... Shit just happens.

 

[boingoman]

Being the design of staduim style seating is to give each spectator a completely unobstructive view of the floor level, .

It's also hard plastic and concrete, and he said it's a 10K stadium only 1/3 full. If it was at capacity, all those people would have sucked up a lot more sound, and the ambient noise level would have been a lot higher too.

 

[Stefan Elmblad]

Surely the Marshall Modefour is all valve?

 

[BrentDomann]

Surely the Marshall Modefour is all valve?

Nope. I think it has 2 12ax7s in the preamp(s), but the poweramp is SS all the way.

By the way, metalj, I think your p90s through a tube amp vs. his humbuckers through a SS amp makes the difference. It's not a question of volume, it's a question of cut and oomph.

Fizz v. Balls. Balls win every time.

 

[jonnyc]

Surely the Marshall Modefour is all valve?

Brent's right, solidstate with two little 12ax7's thrown in for a tiny bit of flavor. I've heard it can be a great metal amp but I also find them on ebay for 500 bucks when 2 years ago they were as much as an all tube Marshall.

 

[Slowrider]

Did a gig like that in the 80's. I "heard" from spotters..that we could be heard for 3 blocks away and everything sounded balanced. Took that with a grain of salt, ya know. One guy was supposed to tape us on TV, and screwed that up.

Supposedly ,there were 10,000 heads. Place was really packed out, though. National Clay Courts Tournaments.
Our agents had us do that gig for free. We only had time to play 6 tunes, then had to pack up and be gone; for the next act.

Sounds like you guys did Fantastic! Congratulations!

 

[toyL]

Like NRS said--the "unobstructed path" between the stage and the audience was undoubtedly a big factor. Also, I'll bet that MN evenings have very little humidity--yet another unobstructive factor for perceived loudness.
I agree with Brent, too--p90s thru a tube amp will VERY efficiently "project" your volume.

 

[KaveKong]

Have you ever been to a children's science museum? They have one in San Diego, and in opposite corners of the interactive museum are two huge dishes that look like giant satellite dishes. Each is about twenty feet in diameter, and about 200 feet apart, facing each other. You climb up a flight of stairs until you are centered on the disc. You can literally whisper to the person on the other side of the room and they can hear you. It's wild.

Also, in the US Capitol, in the old Senate chamber (now it's just another part of the building with statues), there is a spot where the Democrats drove the Whigs nuts. One of the Senators pretended to sleep at his desk. On the other side of the room (about fifty feet), men from the opposite party would whisper to each other. The guy pretending to sleep could hear everything because of the acoustics. You can still do it today. The floor is marked. Two people stand at each spot and can whisper and hear. It's pretty cool.


Also, what about the wind? If there was a steady breeze behind you it might have done it.