Is there any way to make my low-watt practice amp much louder?

G

gene12586

Member
I have a Fender Champion 40 (watt) (solid state) amplifier, which I use as my practice amp. It has some onboard presets and effects, and there's a particular combination of presets and effects that has gotten me the best sound I've been able to get for a particular part of one of my songs (a decent amount better than I'm able to get for that part of the song using my analog pedals along with the amp that I plan to perform with, a Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue). So I'm wondering if somehow one could use a practice amp like the Fender Champion 40 for live performance with a full band (let's say in a medium-sized venue) and get away with it in terms of volume?? Would I simply just mic the amp and run it through a PA system? Would I get enough volume that way? Or would something else need to be done additionally, and if so what?

And a hypothetical question: To take this question to its extreme: I know that for large concerts, frequently amps are in the 100 watt range, and the way they get them so loud is to mic the amp and send it to tons of loudspeakers.... So in theory then, you should also be able to play a 40 watt solid state practice amp, mic it, and run it through even more loudspeakers than a 100 watt amp and fill up a stadium. Is that right?
 
40 watts should be plenty loud.

Do you currently play with anyone or is it a bedroom/practice amp?

I use a 12 watt tube amp and my drummer complains it’s too loud.

Not sure what you mean by medium size venue. Could be 100 people or 1,000

In a bigger space, yes, you’d have to mic the amp most likely. But for your standard bar gig it would be ok.

For more volume you might look at a speaker upgrade or use a separate cab with 2 twelves or something like that.
 
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RFR said:
40 watts should be plenty loud.

Do you currently play with anyone or is it a bedroom/practice amp?

I use a 12 watt tube amp and my drummer complains it’s too loud.

Not sure what you mean by medium size venue. Could be 100 people or 1,000

In a bigger space, yes, you’d have to mic the amp most likely. But for your standard bar gig it would be ok.

For more volume you might look at a speaker upgrade or use a separate cab with 2 twelves or something like that.
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Thanks for your reply. Honestly, I think I'm getting hung up on the fact that it's called a "practice" amp. I've never really cranked it up before (which I was planning to do tomorrow and thought I would ask the question in the mean time)... and so you're probably right that it gets loud enough for bars and such. It's crazy to know that you could just mic it and feed it to tons of tons of loudspeakers and fill a stadium... but I guess that should be common sense. Again, I'm getting hung up on the term "practice amp".

With respect to the last thing you say about the speaker upgrade or separate cab with 2 twelves... Let me just make sure I'm understanding correctly:
Are you saying for more volume one thing I could do is get a louder speaker and replace the speaker housed in the cab of my Fender Champion with it?
And you're saying that another thing I could do is buy a 2x12 cabinet and use it as an external cabinet and connect my Fender Champion to it? If so, how would one do this given that the Champion 40 doesn't have a line out?

Thanks!
 
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On the speaker question..... cheaper fender amps ( I think yours is like 250 bucks, correct?) they aren’t known for having exceptional speakers.

There’s a lot of good speakers available that usually are more efficient too. Efficient meaning it takes less power to get volume out of them.

A 2X12 cab since it has two speakers, has 24 inches of cone surface, so it will move more air. (Louder)
You could do 4x12 too, but that’s heavier to move.

Bottom line is this. Get with a drummer. If you can keep up with him volume-wise, you’re golden.
 
Watts are Watts. RFR is telling you about speaker efficiencies, as in X Watts in = Z Volume out. What made me smile is when yo7 said yo7 are planning to turn it up ……..tomorrow?? you mean you’ve not actually turned it up yet to find out if it’s even nice flat out? Practice amps are designed to sound good, low volume. Big amps often fail to impress at home but flower when turned up to 11! If you like the sound, for gigs slap a mic on it. However, it means you’ll probably have to listen via the monitors and they will sound very different. You seem to be rushing ahead with planning rather than responding to a real problem. The killer for most guitarists on stage is that amp on the floor is just too far away. If the amp is not really loud enough, conjour up a way to get it up to head height and close. Then the sound op gets to mic it up and let the audience hear it.
 
IMHO some things that have been "passed down" in gitamp folklore here that are not completely true?

A "40 watt" TRANSISTOR amplifier might be as loud as a 40 watt valve amp but I seriously doubt it. There are good solid electronic reasons for this which I can explain if anyone wants this old fart to do? Then, what some amp makers "call" a watt is not always the totally unvarnished!

The rule of thumb that bands have used since the days of the Shadows is that in a 3 piece, to get loud, CLEAN sound against a drummer you need 30 watts of valve power and that is assuming a speaker of around 100dB/W/mtr sensitivity. (the Vox AC30 is a prime example).
If you don't need sparkly clean, loud 'chime' you can get away with half or even less power FROM VALVES.

Twin speakers on any given amplifier will not give hardly any increase in loudness. Two speakers each fed with half the power will 'move' half as much. Yes, there will be a tiny gain in the forward SPL because of the greater directionality* but for just two 12s I doubt it will be more than a dB or so. The ULTIMATE loudness will be higher because the speakers will be able to handle more power before going into Thermal Compression but there IS no more power from the same amp'

I would say that 40W sstate amp will be marginal for level in a large venue and might even sound bad as trannies quickly go into nasty distortion as they clip. Valves don't do that.
Yes, mic it up and ideally feed it into a full range active speaker and to give you some idea of the power needed from Silicon? Many of those active speakers now have 500 even 1000 watt 'class D' power amps in them!

*However, virtually all 'twins' have the speakers sat side by side and that negates the directional 'gain'.

"Watts are Watts" ? Not often we clash Rob but...in the water heating world I totally agree with you but ever since the dawn of the power transistor, manufacturers have found ever more mystical ways to big up the (often feeble) power of their solid state amplifiers. "Music power. "Instantaneous Peak power" "Total IPM power" "Time Integrated power" The list goes on.
Then, even if we have a true voltage from a SS amp the actual power into a speaker load will depend on the speaker's impedance. Most ss amps are specified into 4 Ohms and will deliver significantly less into higher impedances. Valve amps, especially GUITAR valve amps are no where near so load sensitive.

Dave.
 
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I had a Peavey Bandit solid state amp. I think it was around 60 watts?

That thing was loud as hell!!!

Never turned it up past 4 and it held its own against the drummer.

Like I said earlier, get it in the context of a drummer and bass player. You’ll find out in short order if it will keep up.
 
My first Slade gig they had TWO 100W WEM amps (transistors of course, not those fragile glass thingies) and FOUR 4 x 12" columns. Memory says it was very loud, but it couldn't have been?
 
RFR said:
I had a Peavey Bandit solid state amp. I think it was around 60 watts?

That thing was loud as hell!!!

Never turned it up past 4 and it held its own against the drummer.

Like I said earlier, get it in the context of a drummer and bass player. You’ll find out in short order if it will keep up.
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Indeed, my son has a Peavey 112 and it delivers a 'specification' 80 watts into its internal 12" speaker. Son tells me it is a very loud amplifier. Peavey seem to one of a handful of amp makers that produced very reliable solid state amps of honest power delivery.
He presently uses it for bass guitar and is ever twitchy about the fate of the speaker!

Dave.
 
rob aylestone said:
My first Slade gig they had TWO 100W WEM amps (transistors of course, not those fragile glass thingies) and FOUR 4 x 12" columns. Memory says it was very loud, but it couldn't have been?
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Yes, it would have been Rob. Chas Watkins was a clever engineer and would have built 'proper' sst amps. Then, a TRUE 100W into 100dB speakers would produce 120dB SPL at a mtr (jet plane territory) but stacked speakers would give a significant 'gain' in the forward direction. At least another 6dB I would guess and possible 10dB. 130dB is getting bloody dangerous!

The figures are not even mollified by the usual "inverse square law" because stacks don't obey it, they produce 'plane waves' rather than the spherical waves of single drivers. That effect is frequency dependent, speakers get more omnidirectional as F get closer to stack size but 4x 4x12 is still going to be VERY punchy down to 250Hz or so.

Dave.
 
I tune my cabinets to their power amps. It figures to 5 to 1. The Bass needs 5x the power as the guitar.

CM800 100watts / BA400 450 watts bass
ADA Microtube 100 watts/ ADA b500B is 500 watts bass

5:1


ohms increase the volume goes down...at 2 ohm speaker is louder than a 16 ohm...tune your set up man.
 
Or hows a bout when they feed a +4 line to their tube power amp. They can only crank it a 1/4 of the way up (sounds like ass)...But put it at -10 and jam....The volume amp knob can be turned up, up to proper gain levels. Where the colors all break up.
 
LazerBeakShiek said:
Or hows a bout when they feed a +4 line to their tube power amp. They can only crank it a 1/4 of the way up (sounds like ass)...But put it at -10 and jam....The volume amp knob can be turned up, up to proper gain levels. Where the colors all break up.
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What does all that mean? Two Ohm speakers do not exist in the guitar/bass world AFAIK and DO NOT parallel speakers to get to 2R because very few sst amps can handle that. In fact there are a few very new amp systems out now that state that the MINIMUM load is 8 Ohms.

We have to discuss only CLEAN power. Depending upon how much distortion you want or can live with, a valve OP stage might deliver twice the 'catalogue' power. Transistors not so much and as said, they sound ***t when clipping (shortly before smoke!)

Dave.
 
If you are going to mic the Amp, it doesn't matter.

Having a bunch of 100 watt full stacks to play a stadium hasn't been a thing for 30 years or more. Most of the wall of cabinets is for show. There is usually one cabinet or speaker in an isolation box under the stage with a microphone.

Now that in-ears are the norm, most of the time the Amp is di'd through a cab simulator.
 
LazerBeakShiek said:
We do?
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Yes, we do because once you start to seriously distort a valve guitar amplifier the power output goes up and up until with some designs a nominal "50 watter" becomes 100 watts of filth. Transistor amps I shall repeat...again, don't DO distorted very well.

I did not say there were no 2 Ohm speaker "systems, amps or speakers, just that their are no SINGLE drive units I am aware of that are 2R. If a speaker mnfctr marketed a mult--drive unit cab with a 2R option they would soon be swamped with claims for buggered transistor amps UNLESS they put some very stern, very prominent warnings on it. Even then SOME t***t will wreck their kit!

I am all for forums being open to all opinions but here we are dealing with a chap's problem with a specific guitar amplifier. Flights of fancy about esoteric kit whilst entertaining are not going to help him much.

"The facts mam. Just the facts"

Dave.
 
I have the fender Champion 40 and it's LOUD for sure. It holds it's own in every venue but fairly large ones. Our lead player has the same amp but with a different Celestion speaker (can't remember which one) and it is even louder....but it also has a slightly different tone than mine. Since you have your amp trone set the way you like it....try it out live before you do anything different. You might be very surprised.

As was previously said....micing it changes lots of things. The mic...the monitor...the height of the PA speakers...etc...etc...all affect the fianl tone/sound.

As for tube amps vs solid state.......well......stats and tests are all fine.....but in the end it's how it sounds and what you like. I have a small / cheap Vox VT20+ amp that can push up to 30 watts according to the specs. Brother...that thing is loud and clear and can crank....even though it has an 8" speaker. It's louder than my Champion 40....but....the tone is not my favorite.

Anyway...try the 40 live.

Just my 2 cents as always.

Mick
 
gene12586 said:
I have a Fender Champion 40 (watt) (solid state) amplifier, which I use as my practice amp. It has some onboard presets and effects, and there's a particular combination of presets and effects that has gotten me the best sound I've been able to get...
Click to expand...
Here's another suggestion, buy another one and use both for when you need the extra power. A few years ago I bought a 15 watt Fender amp that I really liked so I bought a second one so that I could play in stereo and I found that using both together is a lot louder.

Having two amps has other benefits:

1. I can play in stereo
2. I can use one amp for practice at home
3. I can opt to take one amp to a practice (and leave one there if I want)
4. I can aim or place the two amps in different positions
5. If one amp fails I have a backup
 
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