Thinking about some MC012's

[jkokura]

I want to get a pair to use as overheads and on my acoustic...is it worth it to get the pair with 3 capsules? What difference does each capsule make? Why is it even worth it to have the three different kinds?

Jacob

 

[chessrock]

The different caps give you varying polar patterns.

A lot like getting a camera with different lenses; wide angle, zoom, panoramic, etc.

 

[tmix]

If you have a nice sounding room, or are going to be recording on location some place where the room will be an integral part of the sound you want to record, then you will want the multiple capsules.

One capsule is for a cardiod (narrow) pickup pattern which is great for close micing when you DONT want the room ambience included. The second capsule is an Omni pickup pattern where it picks up equally all around (360 degrees) the mic. This i great for acoustic recordings where the room is ice sounding and you want the open ambience included. I can't remember what the 3rd capsule is. I have never had more than the cardiod capsule. They usuall include a 10 db pad for keeping the mic from overloading when recording loud sources.

Hope that helps.

 

[DJL]

jkokura... get "Matched" mics, and if you get all 3 capsules... get "Matched" ones.

EDIT: Reason why... you may want the overheads to capture a stereo image... and true stereo recording requires "matched" mic.

PS... It would be nice if whoever just gave me negitive rep points for tying to help in this thread would tell me who they are and the reason behind their strike against me????

 

[crazydoc]

jkokura... get "Matched" mics, and if you get all 3 capsules... get "Matched" ones.

EDIT: Reason why... you may want the overheads to capture a stereo image... and true stereo recording requires "matched" mic.

PS... It would be nice if whoever just gave me negitive rep points for tying to help in this thread would tell me who they are and the reason behind their strike against me????

It's hard to say. In the past you have very frequently edited your posts to remove offensive material or change the gist of what you said, so as your post here was edited, it may have originally contained something offensive to someone.

Also, as you've been extremely disruptive to this forum in the past, there is a lot of ill will toward you here, and someone may have given you bad rep points just for the hell of it. While this is sort of a chicken shit thing to do, it's certainly understandable.

You've sort of made your bed here - now you have to lie in it. And besides, these rep points don't mean squat in the grand scheme of things, or even the in the most miniscule scheme of things - don't obsess over it.

 

[DJL]

My original post is still the same... my edit only added text, which I noted with "EDIT"... everything above the noted "Edit" is my original post and nothing was added or removed from it.

 

[sdelsolray]

My original post is still the same... my edit only added text, which I noted with "EDIT"... everything above the noted "Edit" is my original post and nothing was added or removed from it.

Hey Don, I noticed that you now have a green little box and a reputation rating of 8, whereas before the box was red and the rep points were zero. Congraguations, seriously.

 

[DJL]

Hey Don, I noticed that you now have a green little box and a reputation rating of 8, whereas before the box was red and the rep points were zero. Congraguations, seriously.

Thank you very much... I'm on the 4th step of the 12 step misfit program... lol. Some of the hr.com members are trying to help me turn a new leaf... and it's working.

 

[baekgaard]

Don, maybe you got the negative vibes since your contribution here eventually lead to this thread being hi-jacked and is no longer about MC-012's

I haven't figured out how this whole point-system works; but if it is about someone else giving you points, I hope I'll get some positive vibes also some day...

Anyway, Jacob, as others have pointed out, the 3 capsules are with 3 different polar patterns. The two most used are the cardioid and the omnidirectional capsule. The last one is a hypercardioid. As explained already, the cardioid pattern allows you to "zoom in" on the sound, whereas the omni tend to pick up more room sound, when place at the same position. But there is another thing to be aware of: The cardioid has a proximity effect so that the bass levels will increase the closer you get to the source. Hence, if you want to close-mic your source, sometimes it is better to use a omni mic, since these are very liniear also close up.

I only have the cardioid capsules on mine ("manually" matched), but the cardioid pattern seems pretty wide. I have not (yet) had a use for the omni pattern, although I have another set of omni mics that I could use the day the need should arise.

If you have a nice room to record in, or want to be able to do true stereo recordings in a church or similar, you should go for a matched pair of all capsules. Omni's can also be handy when recording a larger group of people, since you can place them around the mic. Or for certain stereo techniques.

But if this is not your need, I would say the cardioid patterns may be perfectly OK -- but still I'd recommend a matched pair of them.


-- Per.

 

[DJL]

Don, maybe you got the negative vibes since your contribution here eventually lead to this thread being hi-jacked and is no longer about MC-012's

Oops, sorry about that... that wasn't my intention... and no, it happened while the thread was still about MC-012's.

Anyway, back to the topic... "I want to get a pair to use as overheads and on my acoustic...is it worth it to get the pair with 3 capsules? What difference does each capsule make? Why is it even worth it to have the three different kinds?"

Jacob... rather than re-writing the book, checkout the "Sticky" at the top of this mic forum... it will answer your questions and then some... it's a long read, but well worth it. Here's a quick link... http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=27030 Don

 

[baekgaard]

Oops, sorry about that... that wasn't my intention... and no, it happened while the thread was still about MC-012's.

Yes, you're right. I'm sure that it was not your intention to hi-jack the thread initially.


And now back to MC-012's... I just remembered I did some "tests" on them also that I posted here in this link: https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=101544 -- just in case someone is still interested. These were with the cardioid capsules.

Rgds,


-- Per.

 

[jkokura]

so matched is good...

jkokura... get "Matched" mics, and if you get all 3 capsules... get "Matched" ones.


Ok...so I'm supposed to get matched mics....what's the difference between a matched pair, and an unmatched pair? Are any two MC012's or 603s's a matched pair? If not, what makes them a matched pair.

I understand the idea that matched pairs give you a stereo image, what I wanna know is why - what sets them apart?

jacob

 

[DJL]

Hi jkokura... thank you for inviting me back into your thread. Rather than re-writing the book again... I encourage you to checkout our hr.com search engine.

For example, here are two good old threads... hopefully they will help shine some light on the subject for you.

Mic matching - Fact and Fancy...
http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=116651&highlight=Matched

How to 'audition' a microphone before buying...
https://homerecording.com/bbs//showthread.php?s=&postid=264893

Also,checkout the "Sticky" at the top of the mic forum...
http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=27030

 

[baekgaard]

Ok...so I'm supposed to get matched mics....what's the difference between a matched pair, and an unmatched pair? Are any two MC012's or 603s's a matched pair? If not, what makes them a matched pair.

A matched pair is two mics with almost identical frequency response, polar pattern, sensitivity, etc. There will always be some variation between any two mics due to manufacturing variations. Thus, two random mics may not sound close enough to one another to make up for a good set of mics for true stereo recording. A matched pair is two mics selected from a larger lot on the basis that they sound identical.

If you read the links DJL provided, there will be plenty of information on this. You can also check the link I listed, if you want to see how I ended up with a matched pair from 4 random ones that I bought, and how well they match.


-- Per.

 

[DJL]

Also, be careful what you read about matched mics. For example... here is something I just read on the PMI-AG website...

"Can I get matched pairs of Studio Projects Mikes....

The answer is yes, and no, with the exception of the C4's and the LSD-2.

In the manufacturing process most capsules end up having a loose sensitivity spec of +/- 2db, so the difference between the minimum and maximum spec can be 4dB. This happens due to slight differences in the back plate drill holes from capsule to capsule because the drills wear down, or the tension of the Mylar film after the heating process, or even the capacitor of the capsule. This is a big difference and not acceptable if you want to do a stereo recording.

The spec of Studio Projects mics are +/-2dB. Is this bad? Well the sensitivity difference of Neumann Mics are +/-1.5dB, some are +/-1 dB, and some are +/-2dB. So even very well known manufacturers have this issue to deal with, so the question is...what to do with it?

Testing and matching up capsules is a long and labor involved process. That is why it costs a bunch of money to get matched pairs. The question is, what is acceptable as a matched pair?

One way we have found to resolve the problem was to test all of our capsules and split the tested capsules into three sensitivity classes and code them with a color. For example, a capsule that has a spec of:
-35dB +/-1dB,is marked by a green dot on the packaging
-36~-37dB,is marked by a black dot on the packaging
-33~-34dB,is marked by a red dot on the packaging

So to match them up, just pick two of the same color dots that are located on the outside of our packaging. Now does this make them an exact matched pair...well no, but darn close at no cost to our users. You can even order different models in the same color code so your T3 can be the same sensitivity as your B1.

No other manufacturer I know is taking these steps to make sure the end user can closely match up the mics they buy off the shelf. It is a Studio Projects first!"

I want to make sure everyone here knows that buying two SP mics with the same colored dots is NOT the same as buying a "MATCHED PAIR" of microphones... as noted above in this thread... there is much more to a real "matched pair" of mics than just matching the sensitivity.

And besides, you can always use your preamp gain to make up sensitivity differences even if the dot colors don't match... and rather than a matching dots system, some higher end mic manufactures just toss or sell the seconds as b stock or whatever. Anyway, don't be tricked or fooled into thinking for example, two SP B1's with the same colored dots are a "MATCHED PAIR" of mics. IMO, this point needs to be made VERY CLEAR and that's why I've added this to this thread.

EDIT: Disclaimer...
I'm not implying PMI-AG intentionally is trying to trick or fool anyone. I just want to make sure newbies know there is a big difference.

 

[Phyl]

Looks like it's back to step one for you.

 

[Bob's Mods]

For some reason Guitar Mart has decided to stop selling the MC012s, which had to be one of the best mic values on the planet. Now, even on ebay they are few and far between. If you find them new, they are expensive, where when Banjo Center was selling them, you could get one for 100 and even less at times. There is a serious short supply of these now and so the price is up. Hopefully GC will bring them back. Its hard to understand why the mart would drop such a popular mic. They probably have a ton of other mic inventory that gathers dust.

Bob

 

[DJL]

For some reason Guitar Mart has decided to stop selling the MC012s, which had to be one of the best mic values on the planet. Now, even on ebay they are few and far between. If you find them new, they are expensive, where when Banjo Center was selling them, you could get one for 100 and even less at times. There is a serious short supply of these now and so the price is up. Hopefully GC will bring them back. Its hard to understand why the mart would drop such a popular mic. They probably have a ton of other mic inventory that gathers dust.

Bob

I wouldn't be surprised if someday (a few years from now) the MC-012's get pretty expensive and really hard to find... expressly matched pairs.

 

[Bob's Mods]

Those mics were once more plentiful than poop in a cess pool. Then, sometime a mere short while ago, they dried up.

 

[DJL]

Those mics were once more plentiful than poop in a cell pool. Then, sometime a mere short while ago, they dried up.

This is the second time... GC use to sell them through MF too. Does anyone know if Oktava is still making the MC-012's?