The New 4 Track

[SteveM]

An Ampex Ag 440-B 1/2" 4 track...

The Issues

- One channel did not pass sound at all.

- Tape lifters are not fully extending causing tape to rub on play head while rew and ff.

- Sometimes slow picking up in ff or rw (most likely related to the tape lifters)

- All VU meter lamps, record ready lamps are out and the power lamp.

- Slight shredding of the tape at take up arm.

- Dirty pots, switches. (DEOXIT!)


The Solutions

- I got the bad channel working.. The sound through these channels is enormous. The problem was a bad repro card. I got a box of spare parts and cards with this and was able to get put together a working repro card. Not sure about playback on that channel yet. It's not right yet. Hopefully it will set up.

- There is a procedure in the manual for re-adjusting the tape lifters. So that will be my next project. That should kill 2 birds.

If anyone has any tips or ideas about the shredding or lamp replacement or any thing else mentioned here I'd appreciate it.

One thing I wish this had was a tape counter. It's something you don't appreciate as much until you don't have one. Even the oldest of my decks have had counters.

 

[sweetbeats]

Steve, do join the Ampex List like I mentioned in my last PM and once the registration is confirmed you can do a search on the archives for "440 lamps" and get a bevy of info.

Those are "A" version electronics. You've got an original 440 (some call it the "A" version but there technically was no "A"...just called "440" and then it went to the 440B after that).

Good job getting that channel to work...so was it just a matter of swapping a card with a different EQ daughter board?

Betcha the lifters are lazy due to a need for cleaning and lubrication...

 

[SteveM]

Thanks for the tips Cory.


So it's an "A"? I got the manual for a "B".

It wasn't the eq board. I tried that. Nice how you can just swap those around. Those were good. I had 3 repro cards. I swapped out some components from the other two to one until I got lucky and got one to work. It sounds great just monitoring input.

 

[dodgeaspen]

That's a nice deck. But why no tape counter? Kind of makes no sense to me.

 

[sweetbeats]

Hey dodge, welcome to the world of vintage Ampex. Leader tape...goooood.

Steve, again, if you can get a shot of the back of the electronics modules I'll know for sure, but all the knobs on the modules are 'A' type. A lot of people put the 'B' type on the 'A' electronics...haven't run into the opposite yet, but it certainly is possible. Post up a pic of the back and we'll know for sure.

The 'B' manual will generally work for the 'A' models. Almost no difference between the 'A' and 'B' transports (some stuff with the brakes I can go over in more detail if you like)...actually, if you can get to the underside of the transport look at the part number of the transport. The sticker should be on the underside of the deck plate below the the supply motor I think...

Not a lot of difference between the 'A' and 'B' electronics either. 'B' and 'C' was the big change especially with the electronics.

Good work on the repro card.

 

[SteveM]

OK, will do that. I'm working on the tape lifter now so I'll get the part number.

 

[Dr ZEE]

super cool

WOW, Steve. Nice one.

If I was you, I would printout and real high quality "Special" sign and place it right on the front panel.

Here, see attached. I've made up a sketch for you.

 

[SteveM]

Thanks Mike. We'll see how works out. So far so good.

Hey Mike. These guys stole your amps. http://www.drzamps.com/

 

[SteveM]

Makes total sense about the shuttling Cory. I've been doing that. Y

You can turn the reels to spool tape while brakes are engaged. Turns pretty easily.

You did say, "they" are in series. Thing is I didn't know you meant "they" were two in the VU. I didn't occur to me because I'd never seen two lamps in a VU.

Hopefully it doesn't get to me having to remove motors. I'll wait patiently for the corks to arrive and go from there.

A reel table may be wobbling. I thought I did notice it wobbling yesterday. If it was it was subtle. I'll have to take another look

The tape is off the play head by at least a 1/4". Not sure if it can go out much further. I'll have to try and get some more pics up. It's at such an angle though it's hard to see with the eye. Lifters are not sluggish at all.

Steve,

Transport p/n: Yep...that part number is for a 1/2 inch 4-track 60Hz (i.e. U.S. model) portable (i.e. road cases) 440A. Nothing wrong with that...if it has its original brakes the 'A' version is desirable IMO...with the brakes engaged can you still turn either reel table in one direction or do the brakes hold the motor from turning altogether? The 'A' model does lack a lifter delay circuit which keeps the lifters from retracting until the transport has come to a complete stop, so definitely use the shuttling technique we talked about earlier to dave your ears and monitors...does that make sense? On the 'A' version it is possible for the lifters to drop the tape onto the heads while tape is still moving in high speed so use the shuttle controls to bring it to a near stop before hitting STOP.

Lamps: Did I not say there were two lamps wired in series? Thought I did, sorry if I didn't. Anyway, 39V to the lamps is good. When two lamps are wired in series each lamp sees half the voltage, which would be about 20V, so that's why a 24V lamp works. The lamps I was talking about that people usually replace with LED's are the record-ready and record lamps. I'll have to go digging to get part numbers and stuff for what you need to get.

Rubbing flange: Make sure there is nothing in between the deck plate and the reel motor mounting plate like any washers or shims or whatever...dunno why there would be any there but that'll effectively lower the reel motor. There are three nyloc nuts that hold each motor to the deck plate...7/16 nuts IIRC and you'll want a long socket extension to get the ratchet past the motor if you need to or want to pull a motor...quick and easy. The reel corks sold by David Dintenfass are factory correct in every sense. If your corks hardened they are likely thinner too. If they still rub with new corks there is something else going on. Does it look like the reel table is wobbling at all?

Lifters: how far are the lifters getting the tape off the heads? Is the lifter action snappy or sluggish?

 

[sweetbeats]

Hm.

Corks: yeah, I'd be willing to bet you need those regardless so that's a good no-brainer move. Take the reel adapters off (BTW you have nice ones on there), tear off the old cork and clean the reel table off really good with acetone. Then use contact cement to glue the new cork on, reinstall the reel adapter and clamp a reel on there for a day or so while the glue sets. Makes for a good install. You'll need to do no trimming or anything to the new corks. They are ready to glue on. Now if I can just find new corks for my MM-1000...

Wobble: hmmm...we'll see how things go with the new corks, but if the shaft is bent then the motor needs pulled, reel table removed and shaft straightened. I can do that.

Brakes: Ah! You have later model brakes then which is no loss. Its just that eventually the one-way clutch mechanisms in those brakes go bad and pretty soon its a two-way (or rather no-way) clutch...the brake band holds the drum but the motor shaft just keeps spinning inside the drum. Alot of times I hear of folks replacing the later clutch-type drums with the early 'A' type solid/clutchless drums. But if they hold good one direction the clutches are still good.

Lifters: yes, pics would help. There is no way I can fathom that the reproduce head would be able to pick up the tape from 1/4" away...maybe I'm not understanding something. Again, on the 'A' transport there is no lifter delay circuit (unless it has been added) so the lifters retract as soon as PLAY is pushed, and the tape may still be moving from shuttling when PLAY is engaged which is why you always hit STOP first (and wait for the transport to come to a complete stop) and then hit PLAY. Sorry I can't be of more help yet.

Steve, if you are taking pictures, can you take a shot of the capstan shaft and the hole through the deck plate? It looks like your shaft has a sleeve on it... And you are missing the dust cover over the hole in the transport plate...I might have one.

 

[SteveM]

Yes, will take some overall pictures of everything. I knew I was missing the dust cover.
By "hole through the shaft" do you mean, on the capstan from the top? You're right, it looks like I have an adapter on the capstan.

No wonder I was confused about the delay with the lifters. I noticed I didn't have it but I thought I did. It's because I have the "b" manual and read it in there.

The lifters by default are supposed to be in right? They come out when ff or rw is pushed. I ask this because above you mentioned them retracting when you hit play. I never hit play with any deck when its ff or rw.

Hm.

Corks: yeah, I'd be willing to bet you need those regardless so that's a good no-brainer move. Take the reel adapters off (BTW you have nice ones on there), tear off the old cork and clean the reel table off really good with acetone. Then use contact cement to glue the new cork on, reinstall the reel adapter and clamp a reel on there for a day or so while the glue sets. Makes for a good install. You'll need to do no trimming or anything to the new corks. They are ready to glue on. Now if I can just find new corks for my MM-1000...

Wobble: hmmm...we'll see how things go with the new corks, but if the shaft is bent then the motor needs pulled, reel table removed and shaft straightened. I can do that.

Brakes: Ah! You have later model brakes then which is no loss. Its just that eventually the one-way clutch mechanisms in those brakes go bad and pretty soon its a two-way (or rather no-way) clutch...the brake band holds the drum but the motor shaft just keeps spinning inside the drum. Alot of times I hear of folks replacing the later clutch-type drums with the early 'A' type solid/clutchless drums. But if they hold good one direction the clutches are still good.

Lifters: yes, pics would help. There is no way I can fathom that the reproduce head would be able to pick up the tape from 1/4" away...maybe I'm not understanding something. Again, on the 'A' transport there is no lifter delay circuit (unless it has been added) so the lifters retract as soon as PLAY is pushed, and the tape may still be moving from shuttling when PLAY is engaged which is why you always hit STOP first (and wait for the transport to come to a complete stop) and then hit PLAY. Sorry I can't be of more help yet.

Steve, if you are taking pictures, can you take a shot of the capstan shaft and the hole through the deck plate? It looks like your shaft has a sleeve on it... And you are missing the dust cover over the hole in the transport plate...I might have one.

 

[sweetbeats]

Re-read my request...it says hole through the deck plate.

Adapter on the capstan...hm...that's interesting...well, that will indeed keep the tape closer to the heads when the lifters are extended. I wanna see that adapter. Does it seem like the capstan runs at 15ips when in high speed?

Yes, lifters should be up or retracted by default and extend when shuttling, retract in STOP or PLAY mode.

 

[SteveM]

I think you've figured it out about the capstan sleeve. I don't think it belongs there. Looking at pictures of others I don't see that. But how to get it off? It won't just pull off.

This camera I'm using is pretty bad. It's impossible to get a good shot of the heads. Never mind the tape in front of the heads. Here's a few shots. I'm going to get a better one of the capstan from the front.

 

[SteveM]

yup, you figure it out Cory. That thing needs to come off. How do I get it off?

I managed to get a couple better pictures.

The "hole in the deck plate" The one around the capstan that's pictured above right?

Those capstan sleeves are usually used for different speeds. Thing is I don't know if it's for the higher or lower speed. I want to think it's probably for the 71/2 speed.

 

[Dr ZEE]

looks cool!

Steve, how did you handle the purchase? And I mean - literally. Did you take the fedex truck off the "route" for a while or something ???

And what's up with those cork pads. Do they really have to be specifically corks. Or can you make something up using some other material, I don't know, some felt, shoe leather maybe??? Just wondering.

When are you releasing your Album!!!!!!!!!!!????? It's time!

 

[sweetbeats]

Okay...definitely 'A' electronics.

What a PITA...I can't believe it...looks like somebody pressed a sleeve onto the capstan shaft to get a higher tape speed and of course the shaft would no longer fit through the dust cap so they just left it off. ARG. See those four cap screws on the deck plate around the capstan shaft? Loosen/remove those and the capstan motor is free, and it plugs into the transport control box into a socket that is even labeled capstan motor. Then if you want you send it to me and I pull that sleeve and send it back to you...if your reel table ends up being wobbly you put that in the box too and I straighten the motor shaft and send it back to you. PM me if needed. If you dn't want to do that I can try to help and walk you through the procedures.

The sleeve will increase the tape speed regardless of the speed the deck is set to. In other words, if the sleeve doubles the circumference of the shaft it'll turn 7.5ips into 15ips even though the deck is set to slow speed, and it'll turn 15ips into 30ips.

The other option is to just leave it on and leave the deck set to slow speed and and it'll be at 15ips. But I don't know about tension settings and all that. If the deck is set to 7.5ips and the sleeve drives tape at 15ips then the tension settings would need to be redone and whether or not they did that I don't know...

Steve, what is the revision number on the reproduce EQ daughter board? 4020270-XX?

 

[SteveM]

Steve, how did you handle the purchase? And I mean - literally. Did you take the fedex truck off the "route" for a while or something ???

And what's up with those cork pads. Do they really have to be specifically corks. Or can you make something up using some other material, I don't know, some felt, shoe leather maybe??? Just wondering.

When are you releasing your Album!!!!!!!!!!!????? It's time!

I had a hand getting it into my car and then I took it out piece by piece.

The cork pads look just like round hand sander pads. You probably could use something else but they're cheap enough. I ordered a couple.

 

[SteveM]

Okay...definitely 'A' electronics.

What a PITA...I can't believe it...looks like somebody pressed a sleeve onto the capstan shaft to get a higher tape speed and of course the shaft would no longer fit through the dust cap so they just left it off. ARG. See those four cap screws on the deck plate around the capstan shaft? Loosen/remove those and the capstan motor is free, and it plugs into the transport control box into a socket that is even labeled capstan motor. Then if you want you send it to me and I pull that sleeve and send it back to you...if your reel table ends up being wobbly you put that in the box too and I straighten the motor shaft and send it back to you. PM me if needed. If you dn't want to do that I can try to help and walk you through the procedures.

The sleeve will increase the tape speed regardless of the speed the deck is set to. In other words, if the sleeve doubles the circumference of the shaft it'll turn 7.5ips into 15ips even though the deck is set to slow speed, and it'll turn 15ips into 30ips.

The other option is to just leave it on and leave the deck set to slow speed and and it'll be at 15ips. But I don't know about tension settings and all that. If the deck is set to 7.5ips and the sleeve drives tape at 15ips then the tension settings would need to be redone and whether or not they did that I don't know...

Steve, what is the revision number on the reproduce EQ daughter board? 4020270-XX?

Thanks for the offer Cory! I want to try and figure out what speed it's set at first. I'll get that number.

Actually Cory, the "reproduce eq daughter board" is the revision number on the reproduce card?

 

[sweetbeats]

No, not on the repro card but on the little plug-in eq board. Pull that little board out, the one with the trimmers on it, and look for the part number. There should be a hand-written two-digit number following the printed 7-digit part number. That revision number will tell us what eq curve and speed your 440 is setup for.

 

[ofajen]

yup, you figure it out Cory. That thing needs to come off. How do I get it off?

Whoa! I'd go slow on that. Assuming that it is converting the speed to 15/30 ips, there should also be adjustments that were made to the repro and record electronics that provide proper EQ at those speeds. If you change the capstan, you need the components to change all that circuitry back, i.e. the daughter cards. Also, you will need to readjust the pinch roller pressure/setting. The path of least resistance would be to first try it out on the slow setting as is and see how it does before you make a change that forces you to make a bunch of other changes you might not need to do. And besides, maybe you'd have a use for 30 ips?

Cheers,

Otto