the mother of all stupid questions

[cellardweller]

I was just reading in a thread that there was an optimal db level, somewhere around -6 on Ntrack.

I never recall seeing any of the levels metered/marked/labeled in any way!!!

Where do you get the -6, or whatever the optimal level is?

 

[DonF]

In digital audio, the optimal level is always the same: 0dBFS (assuming that the system is designed and integrated correctly). If the highest peak reaches that level, noise and distortion are minimized. If you attempt to exceed that level, you have no choice but to re-record.

The problem is that you can't always be sure ahead of time what the maximum signal level will be. An audio signal has an average level, and also a peak level, which may be many dB higher than the average. Some kinds of signals (percussion, for instance) have very high peak-to-average ratios.

So, you have to guess what your peak level will be, and set your gain to allow enough headroom for the peak to stay at or below 0dBFS. On a very peaky signal, this might mean that your average levels are around -24dBFS, but that's OK. It takes some getting used to, especially if you're accustomed to the gentle saturation characteristics of analog tape.

The difficulty of accurately guessing the peak level in advance is why some people like to put a compressor between the preamp and the sound card. This can tame the peaks and make it easier to set the levels in the DAW. The downside is, you're stuck with the compression. Could be just the ticket, though, in a "live" situation where doing it over is not an option.

Hope that helps.

 

[gordone]

If you have the recording VU meters up in N-Track, at the top (or on the right side if they're sideways) is a db level. This is the peak level of the signal until you reset it (by clicking the pointer on it). What you do is get the VU meter up and get it to monitor the input signal. Play your song or part and make sure you get to the loudest part. You want to make sure that the peak level never gets above zero. If it does, you'll see a big red rectangle on the VU meter where the peak level is indicated. You then need to lower your signal (i.e. the gain on your pre). Repeat and rinse.
Hope that helps!

I was just reading in a thread that there was an optimal db level, somewhere around -6 on Ntrack.

I never recall seeing any of the levels metered/marked/labeled in any way!!!

Where do you get the -6, or whatever the optimal level is?

 

[cellardweller]

I record using an MR8, so the Input VU meters wouldn't be applicable, but the output, correct?

So when it is bouncing into the orange, this is not a concern? It is only when it hits red?

And so since I am recording outboard, I can only reduce any given channel using the slider, correct?

With my slider set to default position (zero I believe) where should my pre-recorded tracks be on the output VU meter, to allow headroom for other tracks, yet maximize volume?

Thanx...

 

[statecap]

the mother of all stupid questions

I didn't think there was any such thing as a "stupid" question. Only a stupid answer.

 

[cellardweller]

friend or foe

statecap,

which reply are you referring to? I've gotten some decent responses on the fasoft forum, but not specifically what I am asking about meters flashing yellow...

Is yellow bad?

Is yellow my friend?

There, that's simple enough...

 

[statecap]

Re: friend or foe

statecap,

which reply are you referring to? I've gotten some decent responses on the fasoft forum, but not specifically what I am asking about meters flashing yellow...

Is yellow bad?

Is yellow my friend?

There, that's simple enough...

A friend indeed!

I was only trying to help. (just quoting my parents when I was a little boy)

I should have said that the Fasoft forum is a great place to find the answers you need. They have never steered me wrong. The BBS is also a great place to get help.

IMO... recording meters that hit the yellow are your friend.
Those blinking bouts of red are getting a bit too close for comfort. I have heard that when recording in 24 bit, you can get away with the somewhat lower recording level and still be on the safe side come playback time. (it's recording a song all the way through and maintaining the highest level that is the real trick)
In my experience I have found those statements to be true. Although I still have a great deal to learn, I enjoy it.

Best of luck to you Cellardweller

Denver

 

[Teej]

Yellow is 'caution, you're getting close to clipping'.
Blinking Red is 'Hey! you're just about to clip!'
Solid Red is 'CUT! Let's do another take.'



tj

 

[cellardweller]

Thanx, that pretty much makes it idiot proof (the explanation).

Thanx for all responses.

 

[GamezBond]

but when i pop in a mainstream CD its solid read

 

[cellardweller]

but when i pop in a mainstream CD its solid read

I can only guess... maybe due to extreme, squashing compression...?

 

[Rokket]

but when i pop in a mainstream CD its solid read

I see that in most of the software I try. I think it has something to do with the high end gear they use versus what I can afford, and the "louder is better" mantra they are running with these days. I read an article a while back that was discussing this, and they stated as a matter of opinion that the record companies are forcing engineers to push the envelope and get the recordings as loud as possible. The result is a cd that has solid playing, good songs, and is a sonic mess bordering on white noise. But that's the way they want it. Personally, all my mainstream cd's give me ear fatigue anymore unless I play them at a volume that wouldn't wake my kid taking a nap.

 

[Rokket]

And Ryan, pushing into the yellow is what you want. Not staying in yellow, but if the meter nudges up to it, you will be fine....

 

[cellardweller]

hmmm, I've been riding the yellow pretty hard for a while...
that seemed to be the concensus from this page and others...

Are you sure??? I'm inclined to take your word for it and try it...

 

[Rokket]

hmmm, I've been riding the yellow pretty hard for a while...
that seemed to be the concensus from this page and others...

Are you sure??? I'm inclined to take your word for it and try it...

You've heard my recordings.... Let your ears decide if I am on the money...

 

[cellardweller]

You've heard my recordings.... Let your ears decide if I am on the money...

You have to understand, I was under advice from the "Bob Ross" of Ntracks...
Now tell me you wouldn't hesitate for a second!

Yellow is 'caution, you're getting close to clipping'.
Blinking Red is 'Hey! you're just about to clip!'
Solid Red is 'CUT! Let's do another take.

I'm so conflicted


bites his tounge and moves along...

 

[Rokket]

You have to understand, I was under advice from the "Bob Ross" of Ntracks...
Now tell me you wouldn't hesitate for a second!I'm so conflicted


bites his tounge and moves along...

Ahhh, yeah. I probably would. But I find out more on my own than I do by listening to people. It's a character flaw. If you tell me that I can't do something, I just have to go find out why I shouldn't do it that way - within limits...

 

[cellardweller]

That would not be a flaw, quite the contrary...

As I said, I am inclined to take your word for it, and experiment.

Matter of fact, I am out of here...

 

[Rokket]

That would not be a flaw, quite the contrary...

As I said, I am inclined to take your word for it, and experiment.

Matter of fact, I am out of here...

Go have fun.... I think someone needs to do a death metal version of "Achy Breaky Heart". You up for the challenge?











I'm kidding, if you did that, I would give you a bad rep point or 6...

 

[kedman]

-6 is a good start

HI
I read somewhere that for the final mixing, starting with everything at about -6 can help you mix. It will give you room for some dynamics in the song wich is more important than the volume.

I find it's a good starting point for me.
If someone needs it really loud let them pay a mastering house to push it to the limit.
Your ears are far more tuned to dynamics than volume, if it's to loud you just turn it down.
Get the dynamics right and the rest will folow.

It's working for me at the moment.
Man that n-track eq is really nice!! by the way.
Cheers
Bob