The Ever-Popular "Which Reel-to-Reel Should I Buy?" Question

[troutmask]

Thanks for all of the input, everyone! I'm still a bit undecided between the two machines, but I am leaning more toward the TSR-8 (especially since it looks like they tend to go for less on eBay -- I'm going to try to buy one locally anyway), even though it means I'll have to buy an 8-buss mixer to go with it and that tape will be more expensive...anyway, thanks again for your help!

 

[zorf]

I would avoid eBay if possible for tape decks.
Descriptions are often less than accurate,
As far as history and condition.
But the main thing is the shipping.
Not only expensive, but your deck is
Going to take a beating in transit.
If you get lucky and get a local listing,
Maybe you pick it up in person.
Otherwise do you have a craigslist for your city?

 

[troutmask]

Zorf,

I'm definitely trying to find something within a reasonable distance to where I live, as I've read that shipping tape machines (especially the 388) is risky as hell. I'm keeping an eye on eBay just in case a machine appears within my 'region', but I've also put out a 'wanted to buy' ad on Craigslist for both units to see what I get (so far, just one person who told me that, if I wanted to buy one, check out 'grabswag.biz'...yeah...). I'm guessing that it will take a while to find a good machine this way.

 

[VESSEL2020]

I'm definitely trying to find something within a reasonable distance to where I live, as I've read that shipping tape machines (especially the 388) is risky as hell.. I'm guessing that it will take a while to find a good machine this way.

You're right, it may take some time...

I just finally found a 388 in Ct. that I'm going to see in person on my way up
to Boston, from Pa. next month.
I had a long talk with the seller over the phone about the history of the machine,
and we made arrangements for me to stop by his studio while I'm passing through Ct.
I've probably been looking for the "right" 388 to come along for about a year and a half now. I have a good feeling about this one, and I can't wait to check it out.
The seller said we can hook it up in his studio to check all functions. If I'm willing to make a purchase such as this,..I would definitely like to see the gear in person.

 

[zorf]

I bet you can find a good deck in a month or less
If you check every day on craigslist
Just do a keyword search.
If you are willing to drive a couple of hours, you can expand your search
Are you in the Chicago area?

 

[troutmask]

I'm about an hour outside of DC, so driving to find stuff like that is a fact of life for me. Truthfully, I'm hoping that I can find something in DC or the surrounding Metro area.

 

[sweetbeats]

Thanks for all of the input, everyone! I'm still a bit undecided between the two machines, but I am leaning more toward the TSR-8 (especially since it looks like they tend to go for less on eBay -- I'm going to try to buy one locally anyway), even though it means I'll have to buy an 8-buss mixer to go with it and that tape will be more expensive...anyway, thanks again for your help!

Why do you feel you need an 8-buss mixer?

I prefer slaving the deck.

Tascam 48 is another 1/2" 8-track machine with balanced/unbalanced I/O and sync capability, 3-head machine, no onboard noise reduction.

Yes there was a Tascam ATR60-8...1/2" 8-track, 3-head, no onboard noise reduction.

Another possibility is 1/2" 4-track but there aren't a lot of machines in that format with sync cabability. Tascam ATR60-4HS is one...not very common...and you'd only have 3 tracks at a time for audio.

Keep in mind also that of you plan on slaving the deck you're going to need a synchronizer that converts MTC from the DAW to SMPTE so it can reference and compare and control based on the SMPTE T/C coming off of the tape, unless your DAW will output SMPTE T/C...most do not. TimeLine Micro Lynx will chase lock SMPTE T/C to MTC. Tascam ATS-500 and MTS-1000 will not.

 

[jpmorris]

Keep in mind also that of you plan on slaving the deck you're going to need a synchronizer that converts MTC from the DAW to SMPTE so it can reference and compare and control based on the SMPTE T/C coming off of the tape, unless your DAW will output SMPTE T/C...most do not. TimeLine Micro Lynx will chase lock SMPTE T/C to MTC. Tascam ATS-500 and MTS-1000 will not.

Alternatively, you can stripe a track of the DAW and feed that in as the master timecode.

 

[troutmask]

Why do you feel you need an 8-buss mixer?

That way, if I decide that I want to track all 8 channels (or 7 with timecode) live to the recorder (assuming I go with the TSR-8, which does not have on-board mixing capabilities), I can track each input independently. Admittedly, this would not happen frequently with me, since I tend to record mostly by myself, but it would be a nice capability to have, and since I would need some sort of outboard mixer to work with the TSR-8 (I'm going by the assumption here that the machine does not have built-in level controls for each channel...or does it?), I figure that I might as well go with something that has eight busses.

I prefer slaving the deck.
Keep in mind also that of you plan on slaving the deck you're going to need a synchronizer that converts MTC from the DAW to SMPTE so it can reference and compare and control based on the SMPTE T/C coming off of the tape, unless your DAW will output SMPTE T/C...most do not. TimeLine Micro Lynx will chase lock SMPTE T/C to MTC. Tascam ATS-500 and MTS-1000 will not.

Actually, *this* might be my final question. I've seen people talk about external units like the TimeLine you mention for sync capabilities. What exactly would I need in order to slave a 388 or TSR-8 to a DAW?

 

[jpmorris]

Actually, *this* might be my final question. I've seen people talk about external units like the TimeLine you mention for sync capabilities. What exactly would I need in order to slave a 388 or TSR-8 to a DAW?

You have a choice as to how you want to connect the tape machine to the synchronizer, and how you want to connect the computer to the synchronizer.

The tape machine can be driven in one of two ways: Serial, via the accessory-2 port, or Parallel via the Accessory-1 port. For the most part, only TASCAM synchronizers are liable to be able to use the serial protocol.
Parallel protocol is more standard, but there are various per-manufacturer quirks about whether it's positive or negatively triggered, whether the capstan speed is voltage-controlled or frequency-controlled, what the clock frequency should be and things like that.

These settings will be controlled electronically by the synchronizer (though you will probably need a different cable for each deck type). The Lynx MK1 is parallel only, I don't know about the Lynx II or MicroLynx.
The ATS-500 uses TASCAM's serial protocol, though there is an optional add-on, the IF/500 to allow it to talk to parallel decks too. The MTS1000 Midiizer uses serial, I'm not sure if it supports parallel mode.

Now, the computer side of things. Basically you have two more choices here. If you have a synchronizer that can lock a tape deck against a MIDI MTC code, that's great. There aren't many of those, though - the MicroLynx might be the only one. I thought the TASCAM MMC100 could do this, but unfortunately I was wrong. It can control the deck and force it to start under MIDI control but it will not regulate the speed of the deck.

For the most part, synchronizers of this kind are designed to make two tape decks lock together, or lock a tape machine against a video deck. They will expect a timecode incoming from the master deck, and optionally control signals as well, though it is possible to do a timecode-only lock.
What you would do is record timecode on the DAW, and feed that in is the master timecode. Then it should make the slave deck chase that (for best results on the ATS500, enable both CHASE and PHASE modes).

EDIT: I was going to add that with the Lynx MK1, you have to have one for each deck. I was also going to point out that with the manual, with all the cables and months of trying, I never did manage to get the Lynx to slave the machines properly. They make very nice dual timecode monitors, though.