The End of Guitar Center - America and the Big Corporate Empire,.. good article......

[jokerone]

2) They killed the mom and pop shops - Mom and pop shops have limited inventory and high prices.

I lived in Europe for about a year (Germany to be specific) and it gave me some insight into how things work in another country that you can't get by just visiting. Because you have to shop at stores, you have general needs that can't be placed in a suitcase and brought with you for 7 days.

Germany as well as most of the rest of Europe has blue laws. This insures that Mom and Pop can compete with any big box retailer.

Here is how its done (and I am NOT advocating it. I hated it.)

Stores are only open from 9am until 4:30pm. Monday to Friday, and open to 6pm on Wednesday.
Stores are only open from 9am until Noon on Saturday, and once a month 9am until 4:30 on Saturday.

One Drug store is "Open" per district/area one night a week until late. You would have to go to the local drugstore and look on the closed door for the hours of which one in your area was open late . (this was pre internet days). Then take the metro rail, walk, or drive to that drug store.

Restaurants were open late, I don't remember the hours. Basically Mom and Pop only have to work about 50 hours a week and the most, then go upstairs to their apt. (downstairs is the business).

There is no pull your SUV into the parking lot and load up for the week. There is no parking lot. You take the metrorail (Strassenbonn) to the stop near the market, there is no real parking lot in those areas, so owning a car to shop doesn't help.

you buy your food, etc, and whatever you can carry in your hands (3 or 4 bags) back to the metro rail and back to your home is what you buy. So you have to shop about every 3 days.

If you want to build a house, business, etc. You can only build it on the same size footprint as the current/previous house. If its farmland, it remains farmland, no sprawl. None. Which made driving from village to village odd, because it was like you punch though a virtual city wall and hit farmland with nothing separating it.

So this is how the government keeps a Walmart out of an area.

Walmart can't build a 130,000 square foot building without building on the site of a former 130K SQFT. Building.
Walmart has to close at 4:30 like everybody else., etc.

Again, as a Consumer it sucked because you pay FULL RETAIL, and I mean FULL Retail which also pays for all that "Free" health care.
The lowliest McDonald's worker, Maid, etc. Pays 35 Percent in income tax, and it goes up to 80% for higher income earners.

They also have a 17.5 VAT. (value added tax, that is passed on and accumulated for each leg of the supply chain)

So this is how that works. A mining company mines iron ore and sells it to the steel mill Plus 17.5%, The steel mill smelts it and sells the steel to Mercedes plus another 17.5%, Mercedes sells you the car, plus 17.5%. That's what I mean by FULL Retail.

So, anybody want to move to Europe???

 

[miroslav]

These days....if I can buy it online and have it shipped to me (preferably for free whenever possible, and I'll shop with that in mind most times)...that's the way to go.

I only shop for food and immediate necessity items by going to brick-n-mortar stores...or stuff that can only be gotten locally or that isn't worth having shipped.

I have not seen the inside of a "gallaria mall" in at least 15 years.

 

[muttley600]

I lived in Europe for about a year (Germany to be specific) and it gave me some insight into how things work in another country that you can't get by just visiting. Because you have to shop at stores, you have general needs that can't be placed in a suitcase and brought with you for 7 days.

Germany as well as most of the rest of Europe has blue laws. This insures that Mom and Pop can compete with any big box retailer.

Here is how its done (and I am NOT advocating it. I hated it.)

Stores are only open from 9am until 4:30pm. Monday to Friday, and open to 6pm on Wednesday.
Stores are only open from 9am until Noon on Saturday, and once a month 9am until 4:30 on Saturday.

One Drug store is "Open" per district/area one night a week until late. You would have to go to the local drugstore and look on the closed door for the hours of which one in your area was open late . (this was pre internet days). Then take the metro rail, walk, or drive to that drug store.

Restaurants were open late, I don't remember the hours. Basically Mom and Pop only have to work about 50 hours a week and the most, then go upstairs to their apt. (downstairs is the business).

There is no pull your SUV into the parking lot and load up for the week. There is no parking lot. You take the metrorail (Strassenbonn) to the stop near the market, there is no real parking lot in those areas, so owning a car to shop doesn't help.

you buy your food, etc, and whatever you can carry in your hands (3 or 4 bags) back to the metro rail and back to your home is what you buy. So you have to shop about every 3 days.

If you want to build a house, business, etc. You can only build it on the same size footprint as the current/previous house. If its farmland, it remains farmland, no sprawl. None. Which made driving from village to village odd, because it was like you punch though a virtual city wall and hit farmland with nothing separating it.

So this is how the government keeps a Walmart out of an area.

Walmart can't build a 130,000 square foot building without building on the site of a former 130K SQFT. Building.
Walmart has to close at 4:30 like everybody else., etc.

Again, as a Consumer it sucked because you pay FULL RETAIL, and I mean FULL Retail which also pays for all that "Free" health care.
The lowliest McDonald's worker, Maid, etc. Pays 35 Percent in income tax, and it goes up to 80% for higher income earners.

They also have a 17.5 VAT. (value added tax, that is passed on and accumulated for each leg of the supply chain)

So this is how that works. A mining company mines iron ore and sells it to the steel mill Plus 17.5%, The steel mill smelts it and sells the steel to Mercedes plus another 17.5%, Mercedes sells you the car, plus 17.5%. That's what I mean by FULL Retail.

So, anybody want to move to Europe???

lol.....

 

[jokerone]

I have not seen the inside of a "gallaria mall" in at least 15 years.

Its the same as it was 15 years ago, except now everybody has their head bent down looking at their smartphones and running into each other.

 

[jonny deep]

That's not how VAT works.

 

[jokerone]

That's not how VAT works.

that was the way it was explained to me, but please correct me if I'm in error.

With a 10% VAT:
The manufacturer spends ($1 + ($1 × 10%)) = $1.10 for the raw materials, and the seller of the raw materials pays the government $0.10.
The manufacturer charges the retailer ($1.20 + ($1.20 × 10%)) = $1.32 and pays the government ($0.12 minus $0.10) = $0.02, leaving the same gross margin of ($1.32 – $1.10 – $0.02) = $0.20.

The retailer charges the consumer ($1.50 + ($1.50 × 10%)) = $1.65 and pays the government ($0.15 minus $0.12) = $0.03, leaving the same gross margin of ($1.65 – $1.32 – $0.03) = $0.30.
The manufacturer and retailer realize less gross margin from a percentage perspective.
Note that the taxes paid by both the manufacturer and the retailer to the government are 10% of the values added by their respective business practices (e.g. the value added by the manufacturer is $1.20 minus $1.00, thus the tax payable by the manufacturer is ($1.20 – $1.00) × 10% = $0.02).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax

 

[Armistice]

We don't have many chains in Australia - Allans / Billy Hyde would be the biggest.... I avoid them as far as possible because they're full of people with long hair who call you "dude" too much... but if they've got the best price on something, I'll buy it from them. They're probably a few notches up from GC in the advice stakes, but still, they're trying to sell you stuff, not look out for your best interests, which, ultimately, is your own job.

And I'm deeply suspicious of a guitar shop that has no relationship with Fender, Vox, Marshall or Maton and doesn't sell their products. 300 fucking Les Pauls of every description hanging on the wall, but if you want a strat, you're outta luck...

 

[miroslav]

Its the same as it was 15 years ago, except now everybody has their head bent down looking at their smartphones and running into each other.

Then I guess I'm not missing anything.

 

[Greg_L]

300 fucking Les Pauls of every description hanging on the wall, but if you want a strat, you're outta luck...

I could go for that. I'd need the Marshalls though. Fenders...I can do without the guitars, the amps are cool though.

 

[Schwarzenyaeger]

Turn it up!!!!!

Is this staged? Nobody is buying gear, everybody is just showing off.



@jokerone: And funnily enough, living in a large European city is still loads cheaper than living in a large US city.
Don't forget that public transportation is subsidized and cars aren't a necessity. I paid 365€ a year in Vienna for all public transport, which ran 24/7, 365 days a year. I can travel anywhere in my country for almost 28 years on the sales price of a car at 10.000€. That's not including insurance, gas and whatever you pay for on a car.
Also, considering that more than 50% of people will develop cancer in their life time, I'd rather pay taxes toward healthcare than die at 55 because I'm poor. The benefits I can and have reaped from my country are insane. Poor and even middle class Americans would kill their granny for this kind of stuff. Socialism works (sometimes).
I like going to the grocery store every day on the way home anyhow. I like looking at food ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .
Nobody has a large fridge in Europe except for the British.

Plus most stores are open until 19:30 nowadays. Saturdays around 16:00 if you're lucky but on a Sunday you'll only find bakeries and drug stores open.

It has its good sides.

 

[Greg_L]

Is this staged? Nobody is buying gear, everybody is just showing off.

That's any GC on any weekend.

Poor and even middle class Americans would kill their granny for this kind of stuff. Socialism works (sometimes).

There's a valid reason it doesn't work here. I could explain it to you, but this is neither the time or place.

 

[muttley600]

I lived in Europe for about a year (Germany to be specific) and it gave me some insight into how things work in another country that you can't get by just visiting. Because you have to shop at stores, you have general needs that can't be placed in a suitcase and brought with you for 7 days.

Germany as well as most of the rest of Europe has blue laws. This insures that Mom and Pop can compete with any big box retailer.

Here is how its done (and I am NOT advocating it. I hated it.)

Stores are only open from 9am until 4:30pm. Monday to Friday, and open to 6pm on Wednesday.
Stores are only open from 9am until Noon on Saturday, and once a month 9am until 4:30 on Saturday.

One Drug store is "Open" per district/area one night a week until late. You would have to go to the local drugstore and look on the closed door for the hours of which one in your area was open late . (this was pre internet days). Then take the metro rail, walk, or drive to that drug store.

Restaurants were open late, I don't remember the hours. Basically Mom and Pop only have to work about 50 hours a week and the most, then go upstairs to their apt. (downstairs is the business).

There is no pull your SUV into the parking lot and load up for the week. There is no parking lot. You take the metrorail (Strassenbonn) to the stop near the market, there is no real parking lot in those areas, so owning a car to shop doesn't help.

you buy your food, etc, and whatever you can carry in your hands (3 or 4 bags) back to the metro rail and back to your home is what you buy. So you have to shop about every 3 days.

If you want to build a house, business, etc. You can only build it on the same size footprint as the current/previous house. If its farmland, it remains farmland, no sprawl. None. Which made driving from village to village odd, because it was like you punch though a virtual city wall and hit farmland with nothing separating it.

So this is how the government keeps a Walmart out of an area.

Walmart can't build a 130,000 square foot building without building on the site of a former 130K SQFT. Building.
Walmart has to close at 4:30 like everybody else., etc.

Again, as a Consumer it sucked because you pay FULL RETAIL, and I mean FULL Retail which also pays for all that "Free" health care.
The lowliest McDonald's worker, Maid, etc. Pays 35 Percent in income tax, and it goes up to 80% for higher income earners.

They also have a 17.5 VAT. (value added tax, that is passed on and accumulated for each leg of the supply chain)

So this is how that works. A mining company mines iron ore and sells it to the steel mill Plus 17.5%, The steel mill smelts it and sells the steel to Mercedes plus another 17.5%, Mercedes sells you the car, plus 17.5%. That's what I mean by FULL Retail.

So, anybody want to move to Europe???

that was the way it was explained to me, but please correct me if I'm in error.

With a 10% VAT:
The manufacturer spends ($1 + ($1 × 10%)) = $1.10 for the raw materials, and the seller of the raw materials pays the government $0.10.
The manufacturer charges the retailer ($1.20 + ($1.20 × 10%)) = $1.32 and pays the government ($0.12 minus $0.10) = $0.02, leaving the same gross margin of ($1.32 – $1.10 – $0.02) = $0.20.

The retailer charges the consumer ($1.50 + ($1.50 × 10%)) = $1.65 and pays the government ($0.15 minus $0.12) = $0.03, leaving the same gross margin of ($1.65 – $1.32 – $0.03) = $0.30.
The manufacturer and retailer realize less gross margin from a percentage perspective.
Note that the taxes paid by both the manufacturer and the retailer to the government are 10% of the values added by their respective business practices (e.g. the value added by the manufacturer is $1.20 minus $1.00, thus the tax payable by the manufacturer is ($1.20 – $1.00) × 10% = $0.02).


Value-added tax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mate. Stop it, you are embarrassing yourself and your fellow countrymen....

 

[Schwarzenyaeger]

That's any GC on any weekend.

Never have I been more proud to be a bedroom guitarist.

The guy standing doing the rock star moves was the best. You can tell he has experience.

 

[jokerone]

Is this staged? Nobody is buying gear, everybody is just showing off.



@jokerone: And funnily enough, living in a large European city is still loads cheaper than living in a large US city.
Don't forget that public transportation is subsidized and cars aren't a necessity. I paid 365€ a year in Vienna for all public transport, which ran 24/7, 365 days a year. I can travel anywhere in my country for almost 28 years on the sales price of a car at 10.000€. That's not including insurance, gas and whatever you pay for on a car.
Also, considering that more than 50% of people will develop cancer in their life time, I'd rather pay taxes toward healthcare than die at 55 because I'm poor. The benefits I can and have reaped from my country are insane. Poor and even middle class Americans would kill their granny for this kind of stuff. Socialism works (sometimes).
I like going to the grocery store every day on the way home anyhow. I like looking at food ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .
Nobody has a large fridge in Europe except for the British.

Plus most stores are open until 19:30 nowadays. Saturdays around 16:00 if you're lucky but on a Sunday you'll only find bakeries and drug stores open.

It has its good sides.

The transportation is cheap, if things are going where you want to go. I leased a car, bought a car, and dumped both and used the rail system since I could get to work in 40 minutes by rail and 45 mins by car.
However, I disagree about living in a city. I can get a house in St. Louis, like you can in Detroit for free. yes, you have to shoot your way in and out like charlton heston in Omega man, but hell, no neighborhood is perfect..

I had a $1500 a month ( 1992) place outside Heidelberg. It was about 400 square feet. (hence the reason for the dorm room size fridge) The bedroom/kitchen/living room were the same room. You couldn't stand up straight in only half of it because the roof hit you in the head. The bath was separate.

as to dying at 55, they had death panels in Germany. they would red-line you. You need a heart valve operation and you are over 55, then here is a chit to take to your boss so you can get 95% of your pay and here is another chit to take to Baden Baden to hang out in the spas until you die. No valve transplant for you.. Sorry we can't afford it. thats a death panel for you. they would rather take that money and spend it on children, younger people, etc. Thats great unless you are the one being denied a simple operation. Thats the world of socialism and universal bliss..

I really wish all the people who love this crap would just move to a country that has it and stop trying to fuck over our country with this shit. Sorry.

Socialism only works until you run out of somebody else's money.

 

[jokerone]

Mate. Stop it, you are embarrassing yourself and your fellow countrymen....

the info came from wiki, where is it wrong? Please explain why Europeans come to the states with empty suitcases to fill up with crap. (not so much now that their own countries charge them the VAT when they go though customs upon return)

You haven't said where I was wrong.

 

[Armistice]

I like going to the grocery store every day on the way home anyhow. I like looking at food ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .
Nobody has a large fridge in Europe except for the British.

Best supermarket I ever saw was in the south of France... granted you tend to live on bread, cheese and ham when you're travelling anyway, but that place must have had about 50 different types of ham, and we all know about the French and cheese... and vodka for 11 euro a bottle... I didn't want to leave... Maybe I was just hungry...

I'm going to retire to Europe... pending a suitable exchange rate... so many different experiences within a hour or two's flight..

 

[Armistice]

I could go for that. I'd need the Marshalls though. Fenders...I can do without the guitars, the amps are cool though.

Actually it's probably 150 Les Pauls and 150 Epi Les Pauls... but yeah, the no Marshall amp thing's a bit weird... I assume for some reason these major instrument companies all won't deal with them - doesn't say much for Allans / Billy Hyde...

They're big on Orange at the moment, but then everyone seems to be...

 

[jokerone]

Best supermarket I ever saw was in the south of France... granted you tend to live on bread, cheese and ham when you're travelling anyway, but that place must have had about 50 different types of ham, and we all know about the French and cheese... and vodka for 11 euro a bottle... I didn't want to leave... Maybe I was just hungry...

I'm going to retire to Europe... pending a suitable exchange rate... so many different experiences within a hour or two's flight..

I will grant you there are many things I liked about Europe. You mentioned two of them. Lots of good food (even if its expensive), and you can't swing a cat by the tail without hitting some history. I worked for 6 months across the street from this old church. It wasn't until I was almost coming back the states that found out that old church was the one that Martin Luther nailed his proclamation to.

 

[jonny deep]

Vat is only paid once. I run my own company which is vat registered, so I have to charge vat on top of my usual fees. Anything I buy for the company, I don't pay vat on.

VAT in Germany

 

[Schwarzenyaeger]

stuff

The thing is that transportation is literally going everywhere. That argument doesn't apply. I can literally go up a mountain in a train.

Let's try not to compare a house in Detroit to living in a German city...


My gramma got multiple operations over the last ten year and my mom's friend just had her tumor removed at 55. The system works. I worked as a paramedic for nine months and I can guarantee you that the state will pay for EVERYTHING besides a prank call or a accident that was due to alcohol consumption.