The 100,000th question on this BBS about drum micing!

  • Thread starter Thread starter pisces7378
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well pices iscariot-

heh, nah I am not tired of this question...actually I am coming to Ireland pretty soon, so who knows ;)

As far as the 603's being good overheads....I do own a pair...and I do like them a lot. I also have a pair of Rode NT3s...which i have much more use with - the NT3s are 150/each....and they are nice sounding mics. the 603s are definately "right there" with them?

I do understand your concern though, certainly...i am the same way. but, as was said - these small diaphragm mics are really high quality. when you say "condensor" you want to lump the 603 in with something like the NTK almost...which it isn't. its not a large diaphragm mic.

Which would you prefer for overheads? Well....try and see. heh. Do you like the sound of your NTK overhead? try playing with just that before you buy. If you love the sound of it - hell, buy another NTK. It's gonna cost you...but, it might be the differnece in that "close to pro" sound. Lots of pros use U87s as overheads. NTK could compete with that.

But I am not saying that the 603s wouldn't give you a great sound as well - they are DEFINATELY worth listening to.

I would say in general start trying to decide on what *types* of mics will work best for you....in terms of OH, and..whatever mics on the toms/snare....and then just fill in the model numbers. But, 603 is a good mic...definately check it out. Having 2 NTKs in a way sounds like having "too much mic" and that 1 would be going to waste most of the time - but, it's a very attractive option. of course, if I had 2 NTKs, I'd use some of those 3 mic techniques with them....not necessarily OHs. Here are the other link as promised...maybe it will give some something useful.

http://www.drumweb.com/profsound.shtml

anyways, I've said more than I know - so...I am gonna hope someone else can jump in from here on out...but try out what you can...and i definately want to hear the set when you get it in the works.
 
Top of the mornin to ya laddie,

Yeah you'll deffinitly have to have a Guiness for me when you get to Ireland. Ya know I was born in raised in ATL. Born in north side hospital and grew up my whole life in the Peach State. I went to the University in Athens (UGA) before I came over here to Deutschland.

If those Marshal MXL603 are a propper mic for ($80) then that is just a damn sweet thing. I guess $80 isn't exactly chump change. I certainly do not think that 2 NTKs would sound great. They would sound like, as you said... TOO MUCH MIC!

Thanks for all your help. I "shure" as shit have a better picture of what to ask for and look around at when I go to the store.

Preciate it!

Mike
 
Just wanted to add, dont forget the Senheiser E601 kick mic. I own one and i find it very versatile with styles. It captures more of the true sound of the kick instead of faking it. Of course this might bad, or it might be good. But from what i have heard, although not really fact, is that the AKG D112 is mostly good for rock, metal, and punk type musics, because of its accented high end. Of course, i dont know for sure so i wouldnt be surprised if someone has to correct me on this. But they are both very good mics, but i think the Senheiser is a bit more versatile then the AKG. So it depends on the sound you are looking for and whether or not you want the versatility.

Darnold
 
For what its worth, here is the mic list I normally use for people like Aynsley, Jota Morelli etc.
Just to illustrate that, what you might call "high end" recording, does not always use expensive microphones ON the drums.
I emphasized 'on' as overhead and room mics are a different story.

Snare - 1 x Sennheiser E304 top, 1 x E304 bottem.
Rack toms - depending on the sound we're after, E304's or AKGC418's
Floor toms - AKGC418 or Sennheiser 412
Kick - Sennheiser D112 front, AKG C418 at the hammer
Hat & Ride - AKG C451B
Overheads - 2 x Audio Technica 4060
Room - 2 x MagMike's or 2 x Neumann 149 (which are going to be replaced by Lawsons).

It might be worthwhile to note that, as a rule, the better your room ambiance is suited to drums, the less you will use the mics on the actual drums and the more your overheads and in particular your room mics come into play.
I would say that in our studio the average balance of sound is 40% close, 60% room and overheads.

If your room is not particularly suited to drum recording - MOVE. I never get this, nobody seems to realize that you can get the most awsome drum sounds in concerthalls, churches, etc. Why not just ask if you can track your drums there???
 
sjoko2 said:
.

If your room is not particularly suited to drum recording - MOVE. I never get this, nobody seems to realize that you can get the most awsome drum sounds in concerthalls, churches, etc. Why not just ask if you can track your drums there???
Click to expand...

Why did this never occur to me ? A friend has access to church facilities as teacher of a young choir group...and I never thought about the possiblity of getting better drum tracks than my crappy sounding room.

Cheers Sjoko.

pAp

p.s wes480...what part of Ireland are you visiting ?
 
Pap - well, I am not sure. i am planning on going over there for about 5-6 months...and I would like to find an apartment probably to live in for that time....which I would probably actually stay in for about 3 months....and soak up the culture...and probably backpack the other 2-3 months.

Right now I guess my thought is to check out Dublin first and see what around there interests me....if it would be a good place to experience a different culture than America (or...is it too "Americanized").

So, truth is I don't really know. Are you in ireland? Any info you could give me would be great....and of course I'd be more than happy to crash at your place for a few days to get my bearings. ;) ;)
 
wes480 said:
Pap - well, I am not sure. i am planning on going over there for about 5-6 months...and I would like to find an apartment probably to live in for that time....which I would probably actually stay in for about 3 months....and soak up the culture...and probably backpack the other 2-3 months.

Right now I guess my thought is to check out Dublin first and see what around there interests me....if it would be a good place to experience a different culture than America (or...is it too "Americanized").

So, truth is I don't really know. Are you in ireland? Any info you could give me would be great....and of course I'd be more than happy to crash at your place for a few days to get my bearings. ;) ;)
Click to expand...

Dublin is cool. It's a pretty big city though...I'd call it more 'Europeanized' rather than 'Americanized'. Recommendations ? Well, bearing in mind you want to soak up some of Irelands culture, I would recommend starting in the West, or the South-East, and try a couple of places before you decide where you are going to start the backpacking part of your holiday. The West is beautiful, and is probably the least 'europeanized' part. Galway is a great place, good vibes and good people. Dingle is another place in the west, much smaller than Galway, that I remember being very picturesque, although I was pretty young when I was there. In fact if I was going on a backpacking holiday, I would base it in Kerry.

As far as towns\cities go, my favourite holiday destinations would be:

1: Galway.
2: Cork.
3: Waterford (where I live).
4: Dublin.

If you like a pretty vibrant and varied music scene, Galway or Cork are my favourites. Dublin is obviously more varied and vibrant, but the main music venues have gone way downhill in the quality if their bands recently imo...exploiting sixteen-eighteen year garage bands etc...All this probably isn't making much sense, I'm just typing as I think...also bear in mind I haven't really got any (good) experience of Northern Ireland, so I'm not gonna mention it, but there are some beautiful places up there. Weather is better down here though. The tourist industry (which was never huge) has really quietened down since Sept. 11th.

If I was in your shoes and I was planning on staying in more or less one place for 3 months...I would be choosing between the South-East (Cork\Waterford\Kilkenny\Wexford) or the West (Galway and basically all of Kerry). email me at nathanpower@eircom.net if you have any specific questions, or you want help with accomadation and I'll hook you up.

Cheers,

Nathan.
 
Not to veer off-subject, but ...

Wes480, I was just in Belfast and up along the Antrim Coast last May. It's pretty nice up there ... Belfast is trippy. I didn't stay in that city for too long but find the visit worthwhile ... if you're interested in this area and want to hear more PM me. I just wanted to say that the Antrim coast has Giants Causeway, and if you're even remotely interested in geology that's definitely worth a look, given the amount of time you're planning on spending there. I second Pap on Dublin ... very cool. I thought the Connemara was beautiful and have heard Dingle Peninsula rocks. Well, that's enough outta me...
 
pisces7378 said:
Hey Gidge,

Thanks for your input on this thread. You seem to be there for me a lot. I respect your input more than most people on this board.

Thanks man,

Mike

P.S. Who the hell is Harvey Gerst?
Click to expand...
Damned if I know, but his name sure seems to come up a lot when people start talking about what mics to use on stuff, and how to place them.

As far as your original question goes, I have a few questions for you; what kinda drums, what kinda snare, what kinda cymbals?

Around here, we use any of five different sets of overhead mics, depending on the drums and the style of music: Behringer ECM8000, Audix TR-40, Oktava MC012, Shure SM-81, or the Marshall MXL603S. We generally stick to the brighter light cymbals, since we don't need the volume.

For snare, we use either the Shure SM-57 or the Beyer M201.

For high toms, we usually use the Sennheiser 504D (which is now called the E604), or the Shure SM57sor the AT PRo 25.

Floor tom will be either the 504D, the AT Pro 25, or the Sennheiser 421MD.

Kick will usually wind up with an ATM25 (most of the time), or an AKG D112. Sometimes we'll use a Coles 4038 ribbon mic in a tunnel off the front of the drum, or add a second kick shell in front of the original kick shell.

IF the highhat needs it, I'll sometimes use another Beyer M201 or a Beyer 260 ribbon mic on it. The Zildy 12" recording hats are a favorite here.

For room, we usually go to a large diaphragm condenser mic. Good choices are a Neumann U47fet, a Marshall MXL V67, a good ribbon mic, or just about any good large condenser that isn't harsh sounding.

More important (or at least equally important) is how well the drums are tuned. We usually use Ambassador single ply, coated heads on just about all the top heads and clears on the bottom heads.

We have 3 sets of drums here: a Tama Rockstar set, a custom Premier set, and a custom Maphex set. We also have 3 maple snares and several brass snares. While they all get miked similarly, each is fined tuned differently as far as final mic selection and placement.

Well Mike, you still don't know "who the hell Harvey Gerst is", but at least you now know what he thinks about drums and drum mics.
 
Ohhh, THAT Harvey Gerst...

Harvey,

Man thanks for all that. This has been a killer thread. I have bought tons and tons of books on recording. Everything from old school "The Musicians GUide to Home Recording" to "Digital Recording" to "The Master Handbook of Acoustics." They all "address" micing drums, but they never really get into the down and dirty technics and they NEVER venture to make an actual mic suggestions (probably because of how fast technology moves, plus avoiding advertising one brand).

I know that the only real way to learn is to record good drums is to get in there and just do it, and do it and do it, until you get the feel for it and your room. But this thread has given me a great start.

By the way I have Tama Rockstar drums with a metal snare. But I would like to have a good mapel snare. My dream snare is a Grover snare.
 
Not always mic problems

I have to say this thread has been very informative... It's great to see everyone's input on how they mic and which ones they use to do so... But, like a previous person stated.. You can have the best microphones in the world and still get a terrible sound.. These two things are what you need to consider also:
1. No matter what mic you use or how you place it.. Your not gonna make a bad sounding set of drums sound killer... So tune up those drums, replace the skins.. eliminate the kick pedal squeaks.. etc. At worst.. get a new set.. YIKES..
2. The room you record the drums in is a very important key in how they end up sounding on the recording...
Both of these suggestions are just common sense.. but just wanted to add them since you suggested you wanted a great drum sound.. and getting the right microphones for the job are important.. I hope you can see that there are many other things to consider to help you get that sound your seeking.. GL
 
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