Tascam Msr-24 Problems- Need Help!

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acoustix

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Hi- I bought a Tascam MSR-24 a few months ago, and am just now getting around to trying out the recording side of things. Yesterday, I discovered that 6 tracks out of 24 are distorted when going into the machine. The other 18 tracks are fine. The machine came with a pre-recorded tape, and the channels that don't record good (distorted) do play back what was previously recorded on the used tape clean and clear.

However, when I record on any of the 6 bad tracks, they play back distorted.

I have no idea what is wrong and if it can even be fixed as these machines have not been made in years. I don't know where to start, or if I should just use the tracks that work and forget the others. The heads look fine, and I do clean and demagnetize often. The bad tracks are 1, 3, 10, 16, 17, and 24.

Also, I do understand the difference in +4 and -10, and have the Fostex 5030 line converter, so the problem doesn't lie with the levels I'm feeding the machine. Any help from anyone who knows about this machine would be appreciated! Thanks!
 
MSR-24 problems

For the tracks that are recording and playing bad swap out the cards with working channels. This way you will be able to tell if the recoding or playback cards are the problem. Do one channel at a time. The cards are located behind the track leds. They slide in and out. Yes I owned one of these back in the day. Sometimes just reseating the cards will fix the problem. They may have rusty connectors.
 
jack101 said:
For the tracks that are recording and playing bad swap out the cards with working channels. This way you will be able to tell if the recoding or playback cards are the problem. Do one channel at a time. The cards are located behind the track leds. They slide in and out. Yes I owned one of these back in the day. Sometimes just reseating the cards will fix the problem. They may have rusty connectors.
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Thanks, Jack101! Is this machine hard to get apart? I was told it didn't have cards as such that you could pull, but you should know since you had one. Thanks again!
 
MSR-24 help

Dont start taking it apart you just have to unscew the 4 screws in front of the meter bridge then the front panel drops down. They might be hex screws.
 
jack101 said:
Dont start taking it apart you just have to unscew the 4 screws in front of the meter bridge then the front panel drops down. They might be hex screws.
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Thanks, Jack. I really appreciate the help! How did you like the machine when you owned one?
 
MSR-24 Help

I originally had a 80-8 then went to TSR-8 then went to 90-16 then went to 85-16B then went to MS-16 (my favorite) then to ATR-60 then to MSR-24. I was great having 24 tracks to work with the mixing was insane I had 24 outboard effect devices such as Digitechs and Alesis's which really got to be crazy to much to mix. I ran them through my M-3500 32 channel console which I still have. It really sounded great but my favorite machine was the MS-16 and it had all the goodies. Once you clean up your MSR-24 as long as the heads are good you should get a lot of recording done on it. i did 2 albums off that machine and loved it.
 
MSR-24 Help

I originally had a 80-8 then went to TSR-8 then went to 90-16 then went to 85-16B then went to MS-16 (my favorite) then to ATR-60 then to MSR-24. I was great having 24 tracks to work with the mixing was insane I had 24 outboard effect devices such as Digitechs and Alesis's which really got to be crazy to much to mix. I ran them through my M-3500 32 channel console which I still have. It really sounded great but my favorite machine was the MS-16 and it had all the goodies. Once you clean up your MSR-24 as long as the heads are good you should get a lot of recording done on it. i did 2 albums off that machine and loved it.
 
jack101 said:
I originally had a 80-8 then went to TSR-8 then went to 90-16 then went to 85-16B then went to MS-16 (my favorite) then to ATR-60 then to MSR-24. I was great having 24 tracks to work with the mixing was insane I had 24 outboard effect devices such as Digitechs and Alesis's which really got to be crazy to much to mix. I ran them through my M-3500 32 channel console which I still have. It really sounded great but my favorite machine was the MS-16 and it had all the goodies. Once you clean up your MSR-24 as long as the heads are good you should get a lot of recording done on it. i did 2 albums off that machine and loved it.
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Cool. Sounds like you've had a lot of experience with different machines. One more quick question, as you've helped me the most. I'm assuming that these cards are not hot-swappable, I'll need to do it with the machine off, right? Your theory makes a lot of sense in that I bet this machine has sat around unused for no telling how long, and there's corrosion or something that has developed on some of the cards. That, or, maybe they got a little loose in being shipped. Thanks!
 
MSR-24 Help

DO NOT HOT SWAP THEM it is not a server! Power on and off as needed.
 
acoustix,

you can dribble a little bit of Cag's DeOxit in the multipin sockets on the amp cards as well...this may help if a simple re-seat doesn't work. You dribble a little in and then lay the card end down so the DeOxit doesn't run on to the card, and then seat and re-seat a couple-three times.

We'll do what we can if the problems persist.

My first thought though was calibration. Any idea if the deck has had any sort of calibration recently?
 
sweetbeats said:
acoustix,

you can dribble a little bit of Cag's DeOxit in the multipin sockets on the amp cards as well...this may help if a simple re-seat doesn't work. You dribble a little in and then lay the card end down so the DeOxit doesn't run on to the card, and then seat and re-seat a couple-three times.

We'll do what we can if the problems persist.

My first thought though was calibration. Any idea if the deck has had any sort of calibration recently?
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Where are the amp cards? Is that the same thing Jack101 was speaking of? Thanks!
 
Also, I haven't done a calibration, and don't figure it's had one recently. My understanding is that these 2 head machines are quite the bear to calibrate.
 
Where are the amp cards? Is that the same thing Jack101 was speaking of? Thanks!
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yeah, sorry...I'm talking about exactly the same thing and just augmenting jack101's good advice.

My first thought about your issue was the possibility that the calibration settings are way off...are the distorting channels adjacent to each other? Some of the channels on my 58 were really wacked out.

Do you know what gear the deck was interfacing with before?

I've been working through calibrating my 58 (with lots of help from this forum as well as the unofficial Tascam Forum). I started knowing next to nothing about it and I feel like I have a relatively good grip now on how to do it and what is necessary. It makes me feel closer to the machine (in terms of understanding it and being familiar with it), and basically I started down the path I'm on because, through discussions with other owners/users you can rarely trust a shop to do it right, even the Tascam auth'ed shops. The Tascam factory in Montebello CA. will do it right but getting the deck there and back is the scary problem. To be honest with you, if I had a problem with my 58 that required factory service, I'd find a way to personally transport it down there. Its becaome an obscure art to care and feed these machines, but I believe it to be part and parcel to using them. Our fast-food culture has put digital on top because its fast, easy and cheap (relatively speaking). It takes time and resources to learn to DIY but I'd have it no other way...It has been a fun and educational process learning what I've learned so far, and in the long run it will keep my 58 and 48 running as they are supposed to run for nothing but the time it takes to do it.

Trust me...I understand that it may seem big and insurmountable (or maybe not...not sure where you are at mentally with this subject), but its not...and I'm one to drag my feet getting started on seemingly big complicated things. If you plan on keeing the MSR-24 and really using it, I strongly encourage you to jump in with both feet and learning the full scope of the craft of analog recording and learn how to maintain the machine. Best pieces of advice I have received on this topic are:

1. Get a service manual
2. Just take it one step at a time
3. Enjoy it!

Do you have a manual?

There are some additional steps to deal with the 2-head issue, but there are LOTS of 2-head decks out there...it can be done for sure.
 
Thanks, Sweetbeats. I really appreciate all the great information. I am not afraid to get my feet wet. I love analog and used to work in a studio with Otari machines. I never did the whole calibration myself. I helped my boss do it. My biggest fear on this TASCAM MSR-24 is just messing something up that can't be fixed then.

Sounds like I should get the service manual and start from there. I really love analog. Nothing like it. I've been dealing with Protools for the last 4 or 5 years and as good as it is and as popular as it is, it just isn't the same as good analog. Seems like digital has made engineers lazy. They don't want the work of maintaining analog machines. I'm of the mindset that anything good is worth working for. Thanks much!
 
Excellent!

I've been dealing with Protools for the last 4 or 5 years...
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I run a Cubase/Yamaha 01X ~ i88x rig with a chunk of associated gear. I'm engineered/produced a couple full-length projects on it. Its really great and I'm really comfortable with it, but I've learned some of what it can't do. There's a lot it CAN do for sure, and digital has its solid place in the spectrum. But there is something, IMHO, it cannot do, and that is truly replace analog. That's an opinion, and its a personal one. I was recently doing some A-B comparisons using compressor plugins vs. analog hardware compressors. I've really stayed away from this because I was trying to avoid the "unneccessary" D\A\D trip...well, NOTHING IS PERFECT ANYWAY!

The trip out and back from the analog compressor sounds so much more natural than the plugin...not that my dynamics plugs aren't good for anything...everything has a place and it is more important to know how to use what you have than to have what you think you need...otherwise you don't know what you have and hence don't know what you need y'know?

Well, I have years-ago experience with a Teac 3340S...nothing since has compared to "that something" that it had for me personally...and again it is a personal thing. No right or perfect answers, but I'm really excited to be incorporating an analog tracking rig into my digital studio...

You are right...digital has promoted a degree of laziness...I'm not talking about the professionals who do this for a living and can fully exploit the gear they have at their disposal, I'm talking about guys like me that know enough to be dangerous and (due to the moonlight nature of my activities with audio production) don't have the experience to *really* know all I feel I should about what is at my disposal.

My studio PC has enough power to run more simultaneous plugins than I have ever had open, and that's dangerous, because rather than using one piece of rack gear to its fullest I can open a whole bunch of them digitally...pretty soon there is too much to tweak and something gets lost. That's the fast food mentality. "That doesn't sound right...I'll insert *this* plugin...maybe that will help..." It is ultimately up to me, but the risk is there when its at your fingertips and along with the sound I've missed for so long I think my 58 will tactily retrain me that less is indeed more in the midst of the digital age and will help me use better discernment with the digital rig.

With your background I think you are going to be just fine...get a manual, and we'll help where we can from there. As long as you follow the procedures in the manual as well as asking questions here like you have already, you'd be hard-pressed to irreparably mess something up. If you are concerned about it now, you'll do the right thing when you get to those crossroads. ;)
 
Acoustix,

Good to see you found your way here. If you need to understand why I would have pointed you towards HR rather than the Tascam forum, just ask sweetbeats as he's only recently "come across".

ChrisO :cool:
 
Don't even need to ask...

:p

acoustix, I spent a couple years over at the unofficial Tascam Forum and for the first year or so it was great (and even moreso I understand before that), but activity has progressively become less and less over there. Kinda sad, really, considering the heritage of the site, but it is what it is.

cjacek actively helped to get my attention over here, and I am ever glad he did. As far as I'm concerned this THE place to give and receive. Glad to have you here!

jack101,

Checked out your site. Would you be willing to share more about the signal path and recording process related to particularly Dancing Butterflys? Are you saying that was tracked on an MSR-24? Its really, really wonderful...in spite of the fact that it has been converted to one of the major evils of the digital age, the mp3 (by convention in order to share it on the internet...). But there is so much wonder screaming through the digital compression artifacts...I want to know more. Care to share? Nice piece.
 
Hey Sweetbeats, Yep, you're right. On this forum I've already found way more help than anywhere else I've posted. I too believe digital technology has its place. I have been using Protools and before that ADATs for the last 7 or 8 years. Then it occurred to me that of all my favorite records- NOT ONE of them was tracked on digital. They were all tracked analog. Then, I found a good price on this MSR-24 and decided to pull the trigger. I know it's not a truly pro machine like an OTARI MTR-90 or AMPEX MM-1200. I'd love to have one of those machines! But, for the difference, I think it sounds pretty darn good.

So this past weekend is when I went through every channel and found the bad ones, but also recorded some scratch stuff on the good channels. WOW! I remembered why I always loved analog sound so much. It sounded so pleasing to my ears. To me, digital, although clean and quiet, still has a loud, hardness about it. Analog is smooth. I do like digital for lots of things, like the CDs I have still sounding the same after many years- that's pretty cool.

I ordered a service manual for the MSR-24 from TASCAM yesterday and am looking forward to getting the ol' boy back in tip-top shape! Thanks for all the helpful advice thus far!
 
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