Tascam MS-16 1"

retrodave · Jun 22, 2010

Hey guys!

I've only just joined this forum, as I've been stumbling on it via Google for a while I thought I'd give it a try!

I'm looking for some advice on a Tascam MS-16 1" I've just bought (I'm looking at it from a pro point of view, I have a good digital DAW but really wanted that tape sound for myself and clients). I *love* tape and have been lucky enough to work with it a bit in the past, 2" is *way* too pricey but this machine seemed in good nick, came from a genuine guy and has been relatively looked after I think. :cool:

Before I start throwing sessions at it I want to make sure it's set up right and I'm not going to kill it by using it! I have a Zonal ref tape that came with it (not good I know but I'm out of budget now sadly) which should hopefully do, a scope, access to a tone generator and a good-ish meter. I've cosmetically cleaned up this machine (and done the heads well with iso, all appears to be in good order), and generally checked the capacitors on all PCB's - amazingly they all seem good too! Now I'm thinking I should clean up and protect the rubber, check the heads (and perhaps relap if necessary - possibly sell the car to do that one!!), go for a calibration and finally replace the two bulbs that have died (one in the meters, the other in the STOP button). Anybody know how to change those bulbs? If they're even available!

I'm no expert on heads, these seem fair to me, but look like they're ready to relap about now. The sync head seems good (about 50% I thought??), the repro seems worse (maybe 35% left??), I've taken some shots which I've added to this thread. What I was wondering was if you kind people (who know a hell of a lot more about this machine than I do!!) could help me answer a few queries?

1) How do I clean the pinch roller and tacho rubber? Do I need to get something like "Rubber Renue" on them now to protect their remaining life?
2) What condition do you reckon the rubber is actually in? It all feels good and there doesn't seem to be any sticking or friction from the tape.
3) From the poor pics I've got, what condition are the heads in? Do they need relapping, or are they worn too badly already and need replacing? Obviously this is my main concern!
4) Is there an idiot-proof way to set the tape tension and alignment on the MS-16? If I do have to remove the heads to get them looked at or something I don't want to start wearing components down unevenly!
5) I've heard the MS-16 manual's calibration procedure is useless! But I figure I'm still going to need owner and service manuals. Where's the best place to get them from? Are they expensive (or even available) via the Tascam site?
6) I've heard some lovely sounds from some 499 that came with this machine, but 499 causes more wear than 456 / 406 right? If I want to protect the heads, should I be looking at using softer tape primarily? +9 would be nice! But a good general sound and longer life would be okay with me.
7) Some 456 came with it too - looks to me to be suffering from sticky shed. Should I put a blade through that or will storing it at proper humidity and temp make it usable? Is it worth doing, if only for my own projects?
8) Is there anything I'm missing with the MS-16 that I should check, or that could become a future problem? I'll probably never be able to buy another tape machine, I want to take good care of this one!
9) It's safe to clean the plasticy-looking capstan shaft with iso, right?
10) Lastly, I'm probably going to never use the DBX (sounds clean enough to me as it is!), I've heard there's a wiring mod (probably just straight OUTS to INS or something) that lets me bypass this completely. It's not important as I quite like the sound of the extra circuitry, but offhand does anyone know what the mod is? I'm sure the schematic will show me anyway when I can get my hands on one.

If anyone could throw any light on this stuff I'd be very, very grateful!

I love this machine and really think it could add a 10% that's been missing from those organic/live sounds I try to capture. Any insight into getting her going and keeping her healthy would be much appreciated!

Great site by the way guys! I only wish I'd been reading these forums years ago!!

Thanks!

Dave

retrodave · Jun 22, 2010

The Ghost of FM · Jun 22, 2010

Wow!

That machine reminds me so much of how my MS16 looked when I bought mine many moons ago with the worn heads, worn lifters, burned out bulbs and aging pinch roller. I didn't sell my car to fix mine up but I did spend a small fortune all told addressing all of those issues.

Most of the parts, like bulbs should still be available and having the service manual would give you some very detailed exploded view drawings to show where they go. The stop button lamp is a pseudo bayonet style and requires removal and disassembly of the transport button assembly to get to it.

The VU bulbs are a solder in type and the meter panel will need to be taken out and apart to get to the plastic lens which is taped to the lower half of the meter's shell case. This too is not too tricky to change but does require that you pay extreme attention to how you took it apart so that you can put it back together again.

TASCAM's parts department in the States should have the parts and the manual.

The heads do look a bit worn but the wear appears even top to bottom so its probably not imperative to re-lap them unless good tape is being shredded by them being too abrasive.

About calibration, if your reference tape is indeed one suited to 456 flux levels and can be baked if sticky, then the manual too will step you through that process if you feel the machine needs it. Best bet is to record some tone on all the channels and see where the machine is at. Check the input levels first. If all the meters are showing within a db or two and the playback of the tones is also fairly even level-wise, you can probably also forgo a full and formal calibration. When you do this, also make sure all the dbx channels are bypassed.

From the factory, the MS16 was designed to work with 456. 499 requires higher flux levels and yes, is a bit more abrasive so try to get some fresh 456 equivalent tape to use on it and use the dbx noise reduction to manage the tape hiss.

The pinch roller does look like its seen better days but some Caig Laboratories RBR rubber cleaner/conditioner should help to fix it up a fair bit. Your tach roller looks fine as is.

The tape lifters look badly worn and should be rotated to a clean arc on the post to avoid further punishing your tapes with the added friction. I couldn't clearly see the tape guides but if they're worn, they too can be rotated to a clean arc.

Out of curiosity, how much did you pay for the deck? I'm curious because I've had mine for sale for several months, completely reconditioned and can't find a serious buyer for mine.

Cheers!

retrodave · Jun 22, 2010

And relax...

Hey Ghost of FM!

Thanks very much for your reply - much appreciated! I've just got a few minutes before heading off for some shuteye so I thought I'd run off a quick response. So your MS-16 was also a little the worse for wear? It's a shame seeing them in a state like that isn't it, this one had tea stains in various places and it almost looked as if the machine had been used as a coffee table occasionally! I guess it's too easy not to realise what you have...

Great news about the bulbs - little things, tiny minds and all that; but I do think the pretty lights can be inspiring!

I can't wait to get my hands on a service manual, if only to have that information to hand, I don't mind going in blind to disassemble things but I'd rather have the official take and a bit more confidence! So meter panel and transport buttons assembly need taking out - sounds okay, just a fairly long job I'm guessing, but one I can probably do alright.

Cheers for the info about Tascam in the states (not sure if there's a UK branch) - I'll get on to them tomorrow, hopefully the manuals won't cost as much as the heads!

What you say about the heads is encouraging, tape does appear to run quite happily over them, on the other hand though if relapping would extend the head life a little it might be worth doing? I'm all for saving money at the moment (hence the car thing!) but I don't want to put off an expense that's going to have to be taken care of pretty soon anyway. *Really* good to know the heads look okay for testing to you though - I wasn't at all sure myself! And I would like to be able to use the deck whilst I save up for the relap! :eek:

The ref tape I have is 320nWb/m both IEC and NAB so it should be okay, it doesn't even appear sticky, so it might be newer stock (here's hoping!). I've no fear of scopes and responses so I would probably want to cal this machine anyway before using, but when I ran a couple of tones off the tape a good half of the tracks were miles off! The previous owner liked to tweak the settings a *lot*, so a lot of the meters were hitting +6, one or two were -4... a bit of a mess really... but I'm sure it sounded good for his purpose!

I'm not too concerned as everything looked like it just needed resetting, but unless I do so it's not too useful in its current state!

Thanks for the heads up on the DBX bypass during calibration by the way - I *hope* I would've done that, on the other hand you might've just saved me a couple of very valuable hours...!

I didn't realise MS-16's were 456 level designed - that's *very* useful info, and I will follow your suggestion there definitely. I've heard RMGI isn't so hot but I'll see if I can find some good Quantegy stock, there's some great info on another thread on this forum isn't there on where to buy, that was *really* helpful and I'll give some of the sources mentioned in it a try.

I didn't know about the Craig Lab rubber cleaner - I'll invest in some. Know anywhere in the UK that would stock that offhand? I thought the roller looked a bit rough, in person though it does seem mainly dirty so I'm hoping a good clean will make a big difference to it. There was a *lot* of dirt on the guides etc. when I first cleaned it, so I'm optimistic perhaps that's true of the pinch roller too. That's good advice about the lifters - I'll do that straight off! I didn't actually notice so much until I went to take these shots, but the lifter next to the repro head in particular looks terrible doesn't it! The tape guides actually look pretty good, new almost, so I'm not sure what the hell was going on there. I'll check them out thoroughly just in case someone's turned them already and they're like bookends at the back!

I *really* should go through forum posts more carefully - I didn't realise you had your MS-16 for sale! I actually paid... oo-er... £550 for this one (that was more than I had!), mainly because it was within a couple of hours' drive of here and had obviously been looked after for the early part of its life, and because it came with a test tape (although I took a bit of a gamble on that, hoping it wasn't worn out or shedding!). It also came with about 15 reels of 456 and 7 of 499 too (and one 2" 456), although I didn't know that when I bought it. It *didn't* come with the remote locator which is a pain, but it was the version with the meters above the deckplate which I needed to be able to squeeze it into my tiny control room! I'm all nervous now wondering how much you're selling yours for... I know mine needs a lot of TLC but I *think* I got myself a bargain considering it only cost me about £25 in gas to get it back to base, and in general she seems pretty healthy. Having said that, the thought of a beautifully reconditioned MS-16 does make me drool a bit... and wonder if I've done the right thing!

How come you're selling yours by the way? I don't think I'll ever want to part with this one, unless someone offers me a swap for an MTR-90 or something! It sounds gorgeous (from what I've been able to hear) and I'm eagerly awaiting the chance to see what tone and depth I can draw out of her. Surely you're not going over to digital are you? I've just come from there - it's a nice city, plenty of options. But damn I miss the rolling hills...

You could try eBay man, it would at least give you a lot of free publicity for your machine?

Thanks very much for your help! It's definitely set my mind at rest to know your thoughts on this, and it's good of you to take the time to check my post out.

Cheers!

The Ghost of FM · Jun 22, 2010

Well, first off, your 320 nWb/m calibration tape is a bit hot for this deck with 456 which the specs of the deck call for a 250 nWb/m calibration tape. You can still use your tape but you'll have to upward convert to get proper results from the repro head which will then be the standard level for which the rest of the results can be matched up to. I'm not sure if your tape represents a 3db or 6 db bump so hopefully someone else will chime in here to help out with that. But basically what this means is that if you had the meters calibrated properly first and then loaded that tape to ordinarily see a 0 VU meter reading, you'd now want to set the repro levels to see a +3 reading so that when you actually record with 456, you'll get the 0VU reading on the meters, assuming the rest of the calibration went by the book. Get the picture?

The deck will definitely need a full proper calibration though as you said the previous owner was goofing around with the levels...not very smart of him but I suspect he was trying to run the deck with the dbx off and just push the hell out of it to get tape compression effects for his drums. Not a completely bad idea but he obviously wasn't attentive enough to keep it maintained across the board.

As I'm in Canada, I have no idea about Caig Labs dealer in the UK but I suspect a quick google search should come up with some results. Caig is in the States. www.caig.com

My MS-16 is up for sale because I don't use it much these days because of lack of space and loss of a band mate that I used to do all my recording and writing with...life goes on. Mine, with freshly re-lapped heads and everything working is up on Craig's List for $1250 Canadian and that includes the AQ65 remote and the remote track arming kit with manual and snakes. I don't want to put in on ebay because I don't want to ship it due to the hassle and risks. Local Canadian musicians, like everywhere else on Earth seem to be perpetually broke. So I've had lots of interest in the deck but no one with the cash on hand to actually buy it. But, I'm a patient man.

Anyway, before you dive into the calibration too deep, please get the manual first as it will step you through the proper sequence of things to do and the correct order in which to do them. This goes for things like getting to the lifters and guide posts also as they need to be set at specific spots in the tape path to keep the tape aligned to the heads properly. Did I mention to get the manual?

Cheers!

retrodave · Jun 23, 2010

Rtfm

Hi there,

Cheers for the reply! Thanks for setting me straight about the ref level for the MS-16, I didn't know that. I understand the set-the-repro-as-a-ref thing, but that wouldn't have helped if I'd set every channel up to slam the tape too hard would it!

What I'm lacking in experience I make up for in.. well, mistakes really...

I think you're spot on about the previous owner, he never did use the DBX (I wasn't planning to either initially!) and he was definitely all about getting the hottest level to tape he could I think, although some channels are well down so I'm assuming he was going for a more natural effect there - effect being the key word, I don't think he ever actually tracked to this machine as such, just bounced vocals and loops to and from it to get a 'tapey' sound. I do want to play around with the whole tape-compression thing (1" 16 track for drums is as close to the 2" 16 mecca as I'll ever get!), but I want to see what she can do set properly first, and perhaps just pre-compress a little and push the tape hard when tracking drums... it's gonna be a lot of fun learning what works best!

Cheers for the Caig Labs info - I've done a quick Google search but haven't found any UK stockists yet, I'll keep looking though and the product you spoke of looks ideal.

I'm so very, very sorry to hear about your band mate - that's harsh and I'm glad you were able to achieve so much in the time you had. I can see what you mean about the lack of space issue - currently my MS-16 is drifting around the living room (staying clear of speakers of course!!) as I haven't even started clearing a space for it in the control room yet! I'm not even sure if the floor beams will take the extra weight. If you see a thread asking how to extract an MS-16 from a pile of building rubble you'll know what it's about... :eek:

$1250? That sounds pretty good, I'm sure you'll get a bite before long! I was suggesting eBay because it's a good wide audience and you can choose 'local collection only' if you don't want to ship (you can on the UK one anyhow), but in any case all the best of luck with the sale. Man, if I lived in Canada and had a bigger budget I might've been calling on you myself!

RTFM - gotcha!

I'm a big believer in following proper procedure anyway so I wouldn't have tinkered with it until I had a manual in hand. Thanks for the info about the lifters and guides - that's something I needed to know! I realise how important the tape alignment is and I do want to get this right. I've messaged Tascam about the manuals now, but if anyone here has one they'd be prepared to sell / scan / photocopy / dictate to my voicemail

let me know!!

Thanks for all your help man! And good luck with your MS-16 for sale!

Cheers!

The Ghost of FM · Jun 23, 2010

Good stuff!

About pushing the tape after the proper calibration has been done, you can still do that without having to mess with the levels inside the deck as the previous owner was doing. All you need do is bypass the dbx on the channels you wish to get the classic tape compression effects from and ride the levels higher from your mixer's level controls alone. This way, you'll be overloading the tape more and its electronics less, which is the way you want to get the compressive, harmonic distortion effect from the tape, rather then from the overloaded electronics which will never distort as gracefully with their ugly sounding IM distortion alone. The beauty of using the deck this way means that when you simply want clean, hiss free, warm, wide band analog sound, you only need to turn the dbx noise reduction back on and record at the more normal levels. No internal pot tweaking required.

One other bit of advice about TASCAM's parts department. It's best to call them with credit card in hand and order the manual and parts you want. They're notoriously lax at responding to email requests for info.

Cheers!

sweetbeats · Jun 23, 2010

retrodave said:
1) How do I clean the pinch roller and tacho rubber? Do I need to get something like "Rubber Renue" on them now to protect their remaining life?
2) What condition do you reckon the rubber is actually in? It all feels good and there doesn't seem to be any sticking or friction from the tape.
3) From the poor pics I've got, what condition are the heads in? Do they need relapping, or are they worn too badly already and need replacing? Obviously this is my main concern!
4) Is there an idiot-proof way to set the tape tension and alignment on the MS-16? If I do have to remove the heads to get them looked at or something I don't want to start wearing components down unevenly!
5) I've heard the MS-16 manual's calibration procedure is useless! But I figure I'm still going to need owner and service manuals. Where's the best place to get them from? Are they expensive (or even available) via the Tascam site?
6) I've heard some lovely sounds from some 499 that came with this machine, but 499 causes more wear than 456 / 406 right? If I want to protect the heads, should I be looking at using softer tape primarily? +9 would be nice! But a good general sound and longer life would be okay with me.
7) Some 456 came with it too - looks to me to be suffering from sticky shed. Should I put a blade through that or will storing it at proper humidity and temp make it usable? Is it worth doing, if only for my own projects?
8) Is there anything I'm missing with the MS-16 that I should check, or that could become a future problem? I'll probably never be able to buy another tape machine, I want to take good care of this one!
9) It's safe to clean the plasticy-looking capstan shaft with iso, right?
10) Lastly, I'm probably going to never use the DBX (sounds clean enough to me as it is!), I've heard there's a wiring mod (probably just straight OUTS to INS or something) that lets me bypass this completely. It's not important as I quite like the sound of the extra circuitry, but offhand does anyone know what the mod is? I'm sure the schematic will show me anyway when I can get my hands on one.

If anyone could throw any light on this stuff I'd be very, very grateful! I love this machine and really think it could add a 10% that's been missing from those organic/live sounds I try to capture. Any insight into getting her going and keeping her healthy would be much appreciated!

Great site by the way guys! I only wish I'd been reading these forums years ago!!

Thanks!

Dave

I don't really have anything to offer over Ghost and he's more familiar with the MS16 for sure, but I'll add my 2p FWIW.

First, a couple questions for you:

Is your "meter" a true RMS AC meter?
How did you "check" the capacitors?

Now to toss my 2p at your questions:

The pinch roller appears glazed which in my experience means the rubber is hardened. It will be less effective at mating the tape to the capstan. Rubber Renue will possibly extend the life of it but that is akin to putting an oil treatment in an engine that is at end-stage in an attempt to get the oil pressure up a bit. It won't rebuild the engine. Ultimately I think you want to consider getting the pinch roller rebuilt or sourcing a new part. If the tape isn't slipping and the pinch roller pressure is appropriate then I say clean it up and run with it. Under normal circumstances the right stuff for cleaning a pinch roller (or any rubber components on the transport) is just plain water and a lint-free cloth. You can also use a solution of window cleaner and water if necessary. Your tach roller appears aged as well...blistered...those little bumps. Those will effect performance, though whether or not you can hear it is a whole 'nuther question. Again, if the tach roller isn't slipping (and it shouldn't...its on roller bearing cartridges) then run with it. If it sounds okay its not hurting anything, and the good news is that it appears the rubber on those two rollers is less apt to turn to goo and rather they are drying out as they age.
See my answer to #1
Go here: http://www.analogrules.com/badheads.html. If you don't see any gaps opening up on your heads then they will work. Like Ghost said, the wear is even (I don't see any keystoning or hourglass patterns), but the profile looks quite flattened compared to the top of the head shield. I won't guess at the % life remaining as you can only do that by measuring the material thickness to the gap, but if you look at the curve of the top of the headshield is quite a bit more acute than the profile of the head. I have a feeling they've been lapped before. They ONLY way to know if they are any good is to either have them inspected, or see if you can get the deck to cal up. If it sounds good and you can calibrate it within spec then they are "good". I say you take it for a spin and see if it records and plays back from each track and see if it sounds good and then cal it when you have all the tools at hand (manual being #1...I think Tascam's calibration procedure and instructions in that era of gear was excellent).
Not really...you need a Tentelometer to do it. Unless you see evidence of there being a problem then typically its safe to assume the tensions are okay. Reproduce the 10kHz tone from your test tape when able and while its reproducing apply gentle pressure to the supply reel with a finger or two...you'r not trying to stop the thing but just trying to apply some additional back-tension. Watch the reproduce level of the tone on your meters. Does it increase when you apply pressure? If so then tensions *might* be a contributor. It would mean the tension is too low. Just one way to do a quick check but that is not a comprehensive means to checking all the tensions.
See if this guy will send it to you and what he wants for it: http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/zip/1804062584.html. Otherwise its give Tascam a call. You want the manual. Say it to yourself...youuuuu waaaaaant the maaaaaanual.
Its not a matter of tape "softness" but the thickness. Like Ghost said the electronics in the MS16 were designed around the +6 standard. I'd start there and then branch out to other varieties but educate yourself on the reasons for using +9 tape or +3. The other caveat is that if you want to run +9 tape then you need to mod the amp cards so that the bias amps will put out the right level of signal otherwise you won't be able to bias +9 tape. That mod is documented elsewhere here but just experiment with +6 tape first. That's what I think.
I recommend you don't mess with it. If you decide otherwise then you need to purchase the right tools to bake the tape which would be a food dehydrator, and understand that you will need to repeatedly bake it...one baking doesn't fix it but for days, or weeks depending on the climate and how you store it.
Dunno...You ARE lucky to have the rare console with the flying meter bridge though...
Absolutely. That is a ceramic capstan BTW...very nice. More wear resistant than steel.
Dunno. I'd leave it. It is a hardware bypass that's in there now IIRC so I don't see what you would gain except to make it impossible to use the dbx which would possibly come back to bite you.

retrodave · Jun 23, 2010

Every day's a school day...

Hey Ghost and Sweetbeats,

Wow! Thank you guys so much for your replies! There's been some amazing info for me in this thread so far, I didn't think it could get much better!

Ghost, I can't thank you enough for the info on how to *really* use tape compression - that makes *so* much sense! Somehow I had this strange feeling that the machine's discrete components produced the majority of that effect

- but it makes complete sense that it's the properties of the magnetics themselves that are behind that sweet, sweet sound!

Good call on the Tascam parts dept. too - I didn't know that! I'll give them a bell instead when I've got the cash together. As you said Sweetbeats... I *WAAANT* the maaaanuaaal...!

As for the questions:

1) Ermmm... I want to say "yes", but possibly not! It's a nice multimeter with (I believe) a proper RMS AC reading - but it could well be out or accurate at 50Hz only. As I say I'm out of budget so I had this crazy idea I could "calibrate" the readings based on the output of my Delta 1010's with different frequencies, those converters are pretty flat so I could generate known values with them and look for those values from the meter whilst calibrating... I hope!!
2) Ah, another embarassing question...!

Well, I took a good look at them all for any signs of doming, weeping, stretched outers etc. and they all seem extremely good. I haven't of course taken them out of circuit and metered them or anything, and I haven't been sticking my scope in testpoints just yet! But the slightly bad caps I've seen in the past looked way worse than these all do, so I'm hoping perhaps they're still good, they all look excellent. I had initially planned to change all the caps and upgrade all the opamps to increase the SNR, but I want to stay with the formula for now and see what she can do before I start fixing what ain't broke! :cool:

Thanks very much for the answers to my queries too, that does clear up several holes in my knowledge. The rubber of the pinch roller does feel a bit hardened now I think about it, but I hear what you're saying about dead engines and perhaps I'd better start putting those pennies away for a new one! (For an engine, actually, as well as a roller!) You mentioned blistering on the tach, damnit man you've got good eyes! I was under the impression those bumps were somehow part of the design

(don't ask! I do engage brain occasionally) but looking at them now it's clear they are *definitely* blisters. It doesn't appear to be slipping at all (emphasis on the "appear" at the moment!). I didn't know you could rebuilt a pinch roller... can you tell me a bit about that and who to go to? I'm not averse to a bit of wow and flutter (in fact it's one of the reasons I wanted to go back to tape... mmmm, sidebands!

) but I don't want to put the transport under any strain or make the capstan work harder or anything. That is good news - goo is *baaad* :eek:

- and thanks for the water-cloth / water-windowlene-cloth info. Sometimes someone just has to show you how to tie your shoes!

I did check the analogrules site - what an *awesome* site by the way! - and had a look at that info before I bought this deck. Made me cringe seeing the wear on some of those, kinda like you do when a car veers over the cliff face in a movie. :eek:

Major angst! You guys are right, the wear does look very even which is good, but not such good news if you think they might've been lapped Sweetbeats - I've just had another look and the wear does seem quite smooth in profile considering they've worn quite heavily.

Can heads be lapped twice?? I've had a look at the headshell curve compared to the head surface and it does seem a bit different! How long roughly is the life of a brand new head by the way? Just wondered what I should expect if these heads are about 70% through their useful life. I'll take your advice I think and try a cal to see what happens, even in the state its in now the levels looked pretty good on my ref tape, so perhaps it'll get quite close to spec (fingers crossed!). Good to know I was misinformed about Tascam's procedure in the manuals - it didn't seem right to me that such a good machine would have a questionable process attached to it!

That's *great* advice about the little tension test, I'd never have thought of that! Knowing what to do if it is a bit out is a different thing of course! I can't say I've ever seen a Tentelometer before! I'll have a closer look and listen anyway and perhaps come back to you guys if something doesn't seem quite right...

Thanks for the craigslist link - why didn't I see that when I was looking??

I'll give the guy a shout and see what he says. Is the owner's manual also the service manual by the way? I'm used to there being two. If they're not the same thing I'm guessing I'll need both in any case...

Not softness - thickness... riiight, I think I'm getting it now! I will definitely read up a lot more on different tape types, I know about the SNR thing and have heard the legend of the +9, but I'm still very new to tape beyond a generally amateur understanding, I'm more of an engineer than a tape op / tech! I'm definitely going to try +6 first, I want to know what this machine can do before I go tweaking it. I'm hoping perhaps I'll never want to!

Hear ya on the 456 - I think you're right. I do have baking equipment here (I've done a few 1/4" transfers going back some years!) so I understand how tentative the "fix" is. I've read some sketchy reports on how correct storage conditions actually keep gluey tape in a usable (binded) state, but the whole idea of risking anything seems wrong to me. I just thought perhaps I could run them for my own projects if they'd be stable enough, but I think perhaps I'll just take your advice and get some nice Quantegy going on the spools instead!

Regarding the meter bridge, that's a great thing to hear! I do feel very lucky. I do like this configuration a lot and the whole rack seems pretty compact with just 3" lost to the rear, it's a beautiful machine! And nice to be able to get to the components pretty easily too (except for the deck itself of course - I don't know if it's even possible for me to get that out on its own yet!!). But a gorgeous design. Kinda like a poor man's A80!

Ahh, ceramic.

Honestly, it's like the first day of school again! Thanks for that - I *really* didn't want to go dissolving anything with iso on my first lunch break...

And the DBX bypass query - oh yeah, it *is* pretty much the same thing isn't it! I think I'll just leave it how it is then. As I say I had initially planned to never use the DBX at all, but your suggestion Ghost about using it to control noise levels and disengaging for tape compression sounds perfect. I *knew* there was a reason those nice looking little boxes were there in the first place...!

Thanks *so* much for all the help! It makes a massive difference to me and I really appreciate it. Great stuff!

Cheers guys!

sweetbeats · Jun 23, 2010

1) Ermmm... I want to say "yes", but possibly not! It's a nice multimeter with (I believe) a proper RMS AC reading - but it could well be out or accurate at 50Hz only. As I say I'm out of budget so I had this crazy idea I could "calibrate" the readings based on the output of my Delta 1010's with different frequencies, those converters are pretty flat so I could generate known values with them and look for those values from the meter whilst calibrating... I hope!!

That ideology WILL work for setting the VU meters, input levels and record levels, but you HAVE to use a proper calibration tape for calibrating the reproduce levels. No way around it. And the thing with the meter is that unless it is true RMS reading and designed for audio bandwidth it is not worth using it to calibrate. Most standard meters are only reliable up to 400Hz, and all the ratings in the manual for levels are stated in true RMS AC volts, so you need a true rms meter to properly calibrate or what you see on the meter won't be what is actually going into or coming off the machine. What make and model is your meter?

2) Ah, another embarassing question...! Well, I took a good look at them all for any signs of doming, weeping, stretched outers etc. and they all seem extremely good. I haven't of course taken them out of circuit and metered them or anything, and I haven't been sticking my scope in testpoints just yet! But the slightly bad caps I've seen in the past looked way worse than these all do, so I'm hoping perhaps they're still good, they all look excellent. I had initially planned to change all the caps and upgrade all the opamps to increase the SNR, but I want to stay with the formula for now and see what she can do before I start fixing what ain't broke!

Don't be embarrased...Just learning this stuff as well and if you didn't ask you wouldn't know. Visual check is good. You are right, that is the first/best/most obvious inspection. I was wondering if you had actually done a deeper level check (i.e. checking for capacitance value drift and ESR...you have to pull one leg of the cap to check the former, and you need an ESR meter to check the latter). Don't worry about any of that. If they look good and things are working then its all good. I've done lots of recapping and very rarely have I actually found a cap that has drifted beyond spec. I don't own an ESR meter so I couldn't say anything about that, but I'd say its nothing to put on your list at this point. If you do decide to replace caps then start with the PSU. Great bang for the buck in recapping a PSU and using hi-temp (105C) caps. I have come to accept through my own experiences that opamp upgrades are interlaced with hype. The main reason I say this is because there really is NO SUCH THING as a "drop-in" replacement/upgrade. Yes there are compatible chips but an opamp is not an island unto itself. It is a network that includes the power supply and the feedback loops...and multiple stages. It is unrealistic to assume that you can just drop a new chip in and all of the sudden mojo pours out. Opamp upgrades I have done have left me longing for the stock configuration. Typically opamp upgrades will result in decreased distortion and noise, but you are inviting other by products of an ill placed component...oscillation, improper circuit bias or offset...terms I don't fully understand and/or know how to measure for results and much less determine the "fixes". Part of what sounds good about something may have to do with what's already under the hood, so just something to think about. More strain on the PSU in many cases too so you want to assess the draw of the new components to see if the PSU can handle it. There are mild upgrades and wild upgrades of course, but any "upgrade" is a change and there are no guarantees that it will be a good change. My recommendation is to track down a spare channel card and experiment on that to decide what you like.

Can heads be lapped twice??

Twice, even thrice...depends on the heads. Heads last awhile, especially in a recreational environment...I dunno...thousands of hours?

I will definitely read up a lot more on different tape types, I know about the SNR thing and have heard the legend of the +9, but I'm still very new to tape beyond a generally amateur understanding, I'm more of an engineer than a tape op / tech! I'm definitely going to try +6 first

Here's the thing...+more does NOT = better. +9 tape CAN address the noise floor when not using noise reduction. +9 means the TAPE can handle a hotter signal before distorting, which means you can push the levels to tape making the average level further from the noise floor. This would be especially important on very dynamic or softer program material where noise might have more opportunity to peek through the mix, but if it is less dynamic and/or heavier material (big band, rock, whatever) it is not as critical. ALSO...if you are wanting to get tape distortion/saturation artifacts in your projects, then you actually don't want a tape that will take more level before distorting! That's like trying to lose weight by eating more. You'll be asking more of your signal chain (the mixer and the amplifier electronics in the tape deck) to achieve those levels and (depending on the equipment...I'm speaking in general here) potentially including distortion from the signal path rather than nice tape distortion. Depending on the material you may be better off using +3 tape so you can go easy on your electronics but have a closer saturation threshhold with the tape. This is totally backwards from the "dude +9 is so PHAT" idealogy that I see so rampant, but it simply shows a lack of understanding over what those numbers mean compared to what the goal is.

Don't forget about RMGI tape. I've been very happy with it as have many others.

retrodave · Jun 23, 2010

Hey Sweetbeats,

Thanks for that - some awesome info there yet again! I *like* this forum

sweetbeats said:
That ideology WILL work for setting the VU meters, input levels and record levels, but you HAVE to use a proper calibration tape for calibrating the reproduce levels.

I'm with you. I don't fancy the idea of trying to calibrate anything without a point of reference... although I did have a go once with an old 1/4" 1/4-track I had as a kid. Guess that's probably why.

sweetbeats said:
Most standard meters are only reliable up to 400Hz, and all the ratings in the manual for levels are stated in true RMS AC volts, so you need a true rms meter to properly calibrate or what you see on the meter won't be what is actually going into or coming off the machine.

That makes complete sense. I had thought though that if I could prove that my meter responded with 0.45VAC for a 0.775VAC signal at 1KHz (by measuring 0dBu from my 1010's) I could calibrate to 0.45V for a 1KHz testtone on the MS-16. Or I could just buy a new meter!

sweetbeats said:
What make and model is your meter?

It's actually a basic Smart2 22-7215 multimeter, but I have a 20MHz scope too, so I figure I can read level from that quite easily, and check its calibration at 50Hz using the multimeter.

sweetbeats said:
if you didn't ask you wouldn't know

Too true! Learning is so much more fun than looking cool too :cool:

No, I haven't done any other checks as yet. My multimeter does have a capacitance check on it and I use that if I'm in doubt about a cap, but I've never used an ESR meter, spent too long getting lost in analogue flange and predelays when I should really have been learning something, lol!

Everything does seem to just work (I'm still waiting to wake up

) and I definitely agree with you about the PSU caps, as long as they're okay I'm okay! I was going to recap my desk a while back, but ended up just doing the PSU as it was all that was questionable! I was glad I'd checked though - they were just starting to dome out! I have to give it its dues, that desk had worked in some *amazingly* hot environments!

What you say about "upgrading" also makes perfect sense - sometimes I forget how carefully these circuits are designed and how much different more modern / different versions of components can be. I certainly don't want to go introducing any weird offsets or out-of-band oscillations! I'm also a bit scared of losing the good sound of the originals too, if it ain't broke and all that

sweetbeats said:
Heads last awhile, especially in a recreational environment...I dunno...thousands of hours?

That's good news! So hopefully at least a good 500 left in the Repro head if I'm lucky! I would like to keep my car just a *little* bit longer, lol!

Those are seriously wise words regarding different tape formulations - everything's clearer with hindsight! Some of what I work with does have reasonably wide dynamics, but not that wide, and I like my compression (I figure squashing during mastering doesn't alter the sound so much that way! And I like being able to hear *all* the track over the sound of the wind blowing

) so I'm sure I'd be okay with +6 for now.

sweetbeats said:
ALSO...if you are wanting to get tape distortion/saturation artifacts in your projects, then you actually don't want a tape that will take more level before distorting! That's like trying to lose weight by eating more.

I can't find the "Hail" smiley!

But that's so true. I think I'm most excited about seeing what tape does to heavy transients (like initial snare attack and uncontrolled vocals), as these are one of the main things I just can't seem to treat well without resorting to plugins (ugh!

). I also love that just-on-the-edge saturation effect you get with seriously compressed synths and backing vocals, tape emulation just doesn't cut it for me with them, I can't *wait* to try the real thing on 1"!

sweetbeats said:
This is totally backwards from the "dude +9 is so PHAT" idealogy that I see so rampant, but it simply shows a lack of understanding over what those numbers mean compared to what the goal is.

Once again I'm in awe of your knowledge - that makes complete sense! It's very easy to get sucked in by that kind of ethos isn't it, I've only just finished shaking off the "More is always better!" mantra fully when it comes to EQ (don't you just love *space*?

), I'm definitely glad to lose that one too! +6 all the way for me to begin with - unless I get a folk group with ridiculously good dynamics to track up anyway!

sweetbeats said:
Don't forget about RMGI tape. I've been very happy with it as have many others.

Really? I'm glad to hear that, I did wonder why everyone was slamming it when nobody seemed to be saying exactly why! I had assumed it was mostly the same people behind it and probably the same manufacturing equipment (and even plant!) as well! I'll give it a try - Quantegy is gonna get *so* expensive before long!

Thanks Sweetbeats, and Ghost! You guys really know your stuff.

retrodave · Jun 23, 2010

Just a quick query...

Just realised I forgot to ask... is there any way to tell that tension is too *high*? Adding some physical resistance to see if bringing the tape closer to the head increases the level makes sense to me, but what if the tape is *too* close or dragging too much? I don't want to go wearing down parts when I don't have to! Just wondered how you would check for something like that?

Thanks again!

The Ghost of FM · Jun 23, 2010

retrodave said:
Just realised I forgot to ask... is there any way to tell that tension is too *high*? Adding some physical resistance to see if bringing the tape closer to the head increases the level makes sense to me, but what if the tape is *too* close or dragging too much? I don't want to go wearing down parts when I don't have to! Just wondered how you would check for something like that?

Thanks again!

A Tentelometer will be the ticket for accurately checking that and the manual will step you though were to put it, which pots to adjust underneath the panel just above your pitch control board and what readings on the meter you will need to see for play, wind and spool modes.

Cheers!

Peck · Jun 23, 2010

what do you think the ceiling price is for one of these in great shape? sorry if that is throwing off the discussion.

The Ghost of FM · Jun 23, 2010

Peck said:
what do you think the ceiling price is for one of these in great shape? sorry if that is throwing off the discussion.

Considering I'm asking $1250 for mine and no one is touching it, the ceiling is obviously somewhere below that! :laughings:

Cheers!

sweetbeats · Jun 23, 2010

Peck said:
what do you think the ceiling price is for one of these in great shape? sorry if that is throwing off the discussion.

I say around $1000 USD seems to be the going rate, but that's for an unknown commodity.

Too bad, Jeff, that you aren't getting bites. Couldn't have a more relaible seller and you've already "gone through" that MS16. A reliable known commodity. I think your price is fair for sure.

That makes complete sense. I had thought though that if I could prove that my meter responded with 0.45VAC for a 0.775VAC signal at 1KHz (by measuring 0dBu from my 1010's) I could calibrate to 0.45V for a 1KHz testtone on the MS-16. Or I could just buy a new meter!

The differential is not linear even if you had a meter that could handle audio bandwidth (i.e. 20Hz~20kHz but wasn't true RMS). Couple THAT with unprintable error specs if it is NOT spec'ed for audio work and it becomes a worthless tool. I got an old Fluke 85 for $70 or something...ultimately had to get an LCD repair kit for it for about $20 but it has been indespensable. True RMS with comfortable error specs 20Hz~20kHz.

If your scope does AC and DC (which it should) and if it is a dual-trace scope you've got all you need. The scope should have a self cal component. I'd use that rather than the multimeter.

I think I'm most excited about seeing what tape does to heavy transients (like initial snare attack...

That's EXACTLY what sent me back to rediscovering analog several years ago as a drummer...how the tape deals with those transients.

Once again I'm in awe of your knowledge...

Just payin' it forward...I've learned a tremendous amount from this very forum. I still consider myself very green...not a sage but a relay station.

Really? I'm glad to hear that, I did wonder why everyone was slamming it when nobody seemed to be saying exactly why! I had assumed it was mostly the same people behind it and probably the same manufacturing equipment (and even plant!) as well! I'll give it a try - Quantegy is gonna get *so* expensive before long!

Do a search on RMGI on this forum. RMGI was AGFA then BASF then EMTEC and then they sold to RMGI. They moved the plant from Germany to the Netherlands and didn't make formulation changes and curing protocol changes to take the differing climate into account. Yes, big mistake. As a result there were batches that got sent out years ago that shed something awful. I had a brand new reel of SM911 that made a mess...not sticky-shed like or anything, just flaky. I had purchased it from an RMGI dealer and they got me in touch with the RMGI rep and I got the tape replaced after they confirmed it was from one of the bad batches. No trouble with the replacement reel...sounded great and I purchased some 1/4" SM900 for mastering on my BR-20T and I love it. Yes there were problems but I think there are people still slamming it which is too bad.

retrodave · Jun 24, 2010

An MS-16 in the hand is worth two in the repair shop...

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the info on that Ghost - Tentelometers do seem a bit on the pricey side but I'll keep an eye out for one, I'd like to know my heads and tape are being handled safely! I totally agree with Sweetbeats, I'd say your price was *extremely* fair and if I'd have seen your machine locally I'd definitely have wanted to buy it instead of the one I did! What you say about broke musicians is true - that's the only reason I didn't look into a more looked-after model. At the same time I guess the price has gotta be less than you'd pay for a saveable 2" Otari or something, otherwise it's surely just worth paying the extra and getting a mega-*SERIOUS* piece of kit! Not that I don't love my 1", but 2" is something *very* special

I'd check out "PrePal" Peck, at http://www.prepal.com/ - hit "Prices" then "Tascam". That site reckons the going internet rate for an MS-16 is about $1200, which seems pretty fair to me. I would've though you'd get a cheaper one through smaller local ads (and I'm in awe of a forum post I read where one guy picked up an MS-16 complete with tapes, autolocator, spare heads and what have you for about $200 from a closing studio or something! Some seriously envious people in that thread :cool:

). Like Sweetbeats says though, be careful! Because a machine with dead heads or serious transport faults will cost you more than you paid for it (several times over!) if you can get it working! I think I'm right in saying that. For what it's worth I'd have paid $1200 for a good condition MS-16 and been *very* happy with my purchase!

By the way guys, Prepal has the MTR-90 priced at $3200 - I saw one a while back for about $2000 with remote. Damn, I wish I'd never started paying for food in the first place...

What you say about the differential Sweetbeats makes sense - I just though whatever failures in response at certain frequencies existed would at least be fixed by the response curve (or lack of it!) of the meter, so 1KHz@0dB might always read -12dB, 10KHz@0dB might always read -32dB... *but* yeah, it would've helped if I'd've considered that and tolerance too!! Oh well.

Good news that the scope is okay (I *wondered* what that 2V pk-pk output was for... duuuh!), and yes it is a dual trace, so hopefully I should be in business there! I might keep an eye out for a Fluke 85 - sounds like it's really been worth the outlay.

Aha, so it's the ol' snare transients that got the both of us then! :cool:

Sneaky li'l fellers! I'm not a great drummer myself (probably about pub-band average at best at the mo!) but I do play all the instruments I use for my own work for now, so I can totally see why a proper drummer would become hooked by that. Although a lot of my stuff is melody/harmony based for one reason or another, I always feel the drum sound is close to the most important sound in any track, be that a huge over-compressed chamber type thing or a subtle, gentle tapping with soft room tone, but digital leaves me with such amazing definition (even after throwing the signal through half a ton of analogue outboard!) that my "great" drum sound is just lacking a little bit of.. well, imperfection I guess! And I hate it that digital captures massive transients so well, that always seems to become a major part of the sound and I often wondered why I was resorting to plugins when all those millions of great records were made with no converters at all - "Tape!" seems to be the obvious answer! How's it worked out for you by the way? I hope you're getting the sounds you were seeking. I'm assuming because you're very knowledgeable about analogue that you're still very firmly on the journey... :cool:

Relay stations are what life is all about IMO - nothing much new under the sun, but the more altruistic and friendly human beings there are the nicer the blue sky looks.

I aspire to relay myself some day!

I *will* have a look for RMGI on the forum - good idea. I should've known they were BASF or something, such a specialist product to make. I did not know that about the formula problems - I bet someone still feels *really* bad about that! So the only thing to be cautious of is the occasional early tape or two still in circulation, that doesn't sound bad at all, and I always did have good experiences with BASF/AGFA tape. I guess the fact that people are still giving RMGI a bad press is down to much the same as the +9 thing - once something becomes folklore it almost ceases to be questioned on a rational level. I know I'm guilty of doing exactly the same thing anyway, just nodding and saying "right, right..."

- so for the record, "RMGI makes good tape"!

I'm glad to clear that one up!

Nice mastering machine by the way - I always liked the look of the BR-20T, it looks like a solid machine. I have a 32-2B myself which I love, I hadn't used it for a good while (seemed hypocritical when I was doing most things in the box!), and sadly the capstan belts went soggy. Once the MS-16 is up and running I'm hoping to get that going for mastering to with any luck.

For what it's worth, if anyone here does find the need to dive into digital now and then (I plan to use my DAW to backup tape sessions and do any miniscule edits that I can't escape from) I'd thoroughly recommend having a look at "Ardour", especially if you're familiar with Linux. That's one *excellent* program, and works beautifully as a solid "record-edit-playback" HD recorder. Great stuff!

As always thanks for the info - I've got a manual on the way so I'll get this baby cleaned up and see if I can't cal it to spec. Hopefully I'll be posting the good news soon!

Cheers guys!

sweetbeats · Jun 24, 2010

How's it worked out for you by the way? I hope you're getting the sounds you were seeking. I'm assuming because you're very knowledgeable about analogue that you're still very firmly on the journey...

Well, its a long story, but after my first full-length digital project for an outside artist I was just worn out by the life-sucking that happened with drums in the process. No silver bullets in my budget range for sure and I've learned a lot since then so I'm sure I could have a better experience now, but my second full-length project was kind of the same...there was just this feeling of "neutered". Eunuchs can be nice but they are still neutered.

I used to have a Teac 3340S which I sold because digital was more portable, cheaper and "perfect" with no noise. That was about 15 years ago. About three years ago after being tired of grappling with neutered drums I had a hunch that analog might have what I was hearing in my head. I picked up a sad Tascam 238 and it had more warmth and body than I knew what to do with on a test with electric bass. It had issues so there was some fidelity lacking but there was something there.

Long story short I'm now working with this. Its been a long haul of many decks and partial restores and big and little mistakes and all the learning I've needed to finally arrive where I am but what I have now is it and it seems so simple and stupid that something that old and generally frowned upon as a format could not just keep sound from getting neutered, but give it an extra "set" to go with the first pair. It sounds amazing. There's been a lot of work to do and still a bit left so I haven't been able to track drums to it yet...kind of in between spaces right now so its going to be a bit but I have no doubts whatsoever that its going to be better than I imagined.

I always liked the look of the BR-20T, it looks like a solid machine.

The BR-20T...Picked it up for $350 with the proper Tascam trolley and remote. Heads have nominal wear...getting them relapped. It handles tape incredibly well. Just a dream to watch it work. It has the center timecode track so I've played with it chase-locking to Cubase and its just incredible. And the sound...I know there are better halftracks out there, but I can't believe what the tape and the machine as a whole does to mixes...I did some A/B testing of digital program material through the BR-20T...switching back and forth in real time between the DAW output and the repro head of the BR-20T while recording and the difference was drastic...everything was wider and more natural...especially the cymbals and the low end had a smoothness to it but more volume that never got in the way...it just floored me. Ther BR-20T is totally stock. I'm going to recap the PSU at some point just for insurance but no reason to fiddle elsewhere with it. I also have a (potentially) minty condition Ampex 440C with the proper trolley and remote as well. Needs going through...not on the list to do right now so it sits in the shop covered up.

Peck · Jun 24, 2010

thx for price responses. good luck with your gear as always.

retrodave · Jun 24, 2010

Oh wow...

No problem Peck - thanks for the good luck wishes, I might be needing those!

sweetbeats said:
I was just worn out by the life-sucking that happened with drums in the process.

I'm sorry to hear that man, I think I know what you mean though. When the going's good a person can work harder than is humanly possible and it's a beautiful experience, when things are tough and nothing seems to be quite working out it just becomes a nightmare doesn't it! Sounds like you got the job done anyway, so nice work with that! And without the silver bullets too!

sweetbeats said:
my second full-length project was kind of the same...there was just this feeling of "neutered". Eunuchs can be nice but they are still neutered.

LMAO!

Too true. That must've been very frustrating, especially when you know what you're going for. I hate projects like that! I'm beginning to learn what sounds I'm seeking now slowly so things are beginning to fall into place (largely from happy accidents that "just sounded great", it's easier to analyze why after the fact!). I'm also tending to mix as I'm going along now more (I've definitely stopped being a "no FX to tape" guy!!

) which really helps me know what sounds fit where. Hence why the idea of 16 tracks doesn't scare me too much! Bouncing is *good*

I wouldn't want to work with less I have to admit; I often comp between 4 and 8 tracks together to a stereo pair, so I still need those spare channels!

sweetbeats said:
I used to have a Teac 3340S... I picked up a sad Tascam 238...

Excellent! I never did get to use one myself but I have seen them, they seem pretty good and look a little like they're built to survive an earthquake! A 238? Ahh, good ol' 8-track 1/8"

definitely not the best for fidelity but I guess it's just like what's been said about +3 tape - it doesn't take much to push the envelope to a point where physics start to colour what you put in. I did have a little portastudio thing going back some years, can't remember which one but that had some very interesting responses in it! I only wish I'd been old enough and wise enough to have known what I could've done with it if I'd tried!

Thanks for the links to your MM-1000 pics - that is a *beeeautiful* machine! And boy you've really cleaned it up well, it looks like new! I'd put money on it being as spotless technically as it is aesthetically from the sound of the work you've been doing on it! Those machines had 2" heads available too didn't they? And space for an extra 8 cards. Owning something that could be a 2" 16-track really *is* something, not that you'll maybe ever need that with what you have - I'm sure you're right and that really is going to be a special day when you finally get to hit the tape with your best signals!

You gotta post to the forums about that experience! Congratulations on finding such a fantastic machine anyway - I'm definitely a fair bit envious! Although I do like my extravagant number of channels...

By the way did you read the post on GearSlutz about that MM-1000 that was getting given away? Had a couple of interesting posts about an ex-Woodland machine that someone bought. It's over at http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high...00-16-trk-la-its-big-needs-work-its-free.html anyway if you wanted to check it out.

sweetbeats said:
BR-20T...Picked it up for $350 with the proper Tascam trolley and remote.

Whoa! What a bargain! That must also have been a good day

Didn't know it had a timecode track on that deck, I've only ever seen a Fostex with that feature in person, but that was pretty impressive. The transport on my 32-2B does seem extremely good, I'd be interested to know how the BR-20T compares - probably quite a bit smoother I'm guessing! I'm really glad you've found it so useful as a mastering machine, the last time I used my 1/4" for that purpose was years ago when I was only really just starting to learn how to engineer properly. I spent ages squishing and filtering stuff to get it all to sit "perfectly"... and then the tape would go and mess up the bottom end (aka change it!) and slightly muddy the (already poorly handled!) highs! And what use is tape compression when everything's already badly flattened... I just didn't understand what I was trying to do, I guess it's like doing motocross when you're learning to ride a bicycle, not a hope in hell of manipulating gravity if you can't even keep balance, lol!

On individual tracks I'm not bad with tape now, and pretty good at not destroying the sounds in question!

So I'll be interested to see if I can put the right type of detail and frequencies out to 1/4" next time I try mixing to it. Tape does do a beautiful thing to cymbals doesn't it, and bass like you said - guess it's just important to learn where the low-end head bump is.

sweetbeats said:
The BR-20T is totally stock. I'm going to recap the PSU at some point just for insurance but no reason to fiddle elsewhere with it.

Oh, that's *niice*! Bet there's not too many of those out there in good nick now, you were fortunate to find it! Here's hoping you'll get many years of great service out of her!

sweetbeats said:
I also have a (potentially) minty condition Ampex 440C with the proper trolley and remote as well.

Wow!! That's awesome too, they're (like the MM-1000) one of the proper, heavy-duty multitracks aren't they? If you haven't read this page I'd definitely recommend it:

http://www.in2guitar.com/stories.html

Some hilarious tales there and I believe it's the 440C he's talking about in the last one - make sure that rewind button works when you dust yours down eh

Seriously you have some gorgeous kit there - do you have any other pics up on your site? I did hit the root address but couldn't see any HTML, I'm guessing that's not up just yet.

A little news on the MS-16, I spoke to a nice guy in Acoustic Solutions today about getting a service manual and some parts - he reckons the service manual probably isn't available from Tascam! :eek:

I'm kinda gutted about that. I don't fancy asking someone to xerox theirs for me, that seems a bit cheeky... hopefully something will turn up on eBay or in the classifieds. He said new pinch rollers were available (I'll probably just get this one reconditioned though if it's a problem), and the VU and transport control bulbs. Apparently the VU meter bulbs are exactly the same as the Tascam 38 meter bulbs! So that's pretty cool. Think I'll try a cal first though before I go getting the pretty lights in working order...

Cheers Sweetbeats! And look after that beautiful piece of history!

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