Tascam M-30 and Tascam 34: How do I dub vinyl records to tape with these?

[Secret Saucer]

Yes, jumpers as below, they need to be fitted along the top row input channels 1-8 on the right rear, and output channels 1-4 on the left rear.

Exactly as in your photo of the rear panel in post #6.

View attachment 107397

Back in business! I had no idea those were crucial bits. I'm now getting signal through the M-30 and into the 34!

The VU meters #1, #3 and #4 on the M-30 move with music, and meters #1 and #3 move with music on the 34. Good so far. I also get signal to tape...finally!

However, on tape playback only track #3 seems to output to the board, only the #3 VU meters on the 34 and M-30 move, and the playback through the system splits that mono signal to both speakers, but still summed mono...or perhaps one channel from the original source into mono on both channels...

 

[quiberon]

On the monitor section, (orange top knobs), the lower part "Pan" controls where signal appears across the sound-stage left to right, the top section is "Gain".

You need the lower section of #1 fully left, and the lower section of #3 fully right.

The reason meter #4 is reacting; check the switch below it: It is a three position switch and controls meters #3 & #4; to the left they show the levels of busses #3 & #4. In the centre position they show the levels of the stereo output from the monitor section. To the right they show the levels of the stereo output from the submix section.

 

[Secret Saucer]

On the monitor section, (orange top knobs), the lower part "Pan" controls where signal appears across the sound-stage left to right, the top section is "Gain".

You need the lower section of #1 fully left, and the lower section of #3 fully right.

The reason meter #4 is reacting; check the switch below it: It is a three position switch and controls meters #3 & #4; to the left they show the levels of busses #3 & #4. In the centre position they show the levels of the stereo output from the monitor section. To the right they show the levels of the stereo output from the submix section.

So I'm assuming that should be set to monitor?

Great...after work today I'll try this out. Now on the far right, the submix panel, should I worry about any of the settings or is that out of the loop?

 

[RRuskin]

Owners manuals are available for these things. Get and read them.

 

[quiberon]

If you keep it set to monitor, you will be able to see the levels going out to your preamp.

As it stands with the current settings the submix is as you say "out of the loop".

Just asking; the manual you have it Tascam's original printed manual, or is it a download?

 

[quiberon]

The OP says in post #16 that he does have the manual.

 

[Secret Saucer]

If you keep it set to monitor, you will be able to see the levels going out to your preamp.

As it stands with the current settings the submix is as you say "out of the loop".

Just asking; the manual you have it Tascam's original printed manual, or is it a download?

Downloaded one.

 

[Secret Saucer]

Owners manuals are available for these things. Get and read them.

Thanks. Why didn't I think of that? Wait ... I did.

Previous posts are there for the reading if you're interested in the thread. Find them and read them, then you can judge whether or not pithy is the appropriate thing, especially coming from someone with 40+ years of experience using this kind of equipment talking to someone who's never used it before and has zero experience. Maybe it's all obvious and intuitive to you. Good for you. For my part, the M-30 manual I downloaded is one of the most poorly written instruction manuals I've ever read -- it, like you, assumes a great deal of prior understanding. It goes exactly zero distance helping someone like me out, i.e. starting from zero.

So my point is this: why are you even in this thread?

 

[quiberon]

In all probability the one you downloaded is not the complete manual. The full manual runs to 100 pages which includes fold out pages.

If you want the full manual you can download it from my website here; File Store as a PDF it runs to 88 pages.

All the fold out page sections were scanned separately and the stitched together as larger pages.

 

[Secret Saucer]

In all probability the one you downloaded is not the complete manual. The full manual runs to 100 pages which includes fold out pages.

If you want the full manual you can download it from my website here; File Store as a PDF it runs to 88 pages.

All the fold out page sections were scanned separately and the stitched together as larger pages.

Thank you very kindly. You've been extraordinarily helpful and I do appreciate it very sincerely. I've double, triple, quadruple checked and more the connections and settings on your cheat sheet and just cannot get a proper result. So I will download your complete manual, read through it on the weekend and see what's what.

The process has been so damn frustrating I felt like chucking the things out, but I keep thinking of that stock of sealed 10-inch reels I have and that the Tascam can run at 15 ips...

If not my own boneheadedness (not seeing something right in front of me) there is the possibility the equipment is at fault. It was last used sometime before 1998, then went into storage until this past January. In January, though, I had my audio tech check it out and do maintenance on the 34, so I tend to think the tape deck is all right. Don't know about the M-30. Again, I have to say it sports a sweet sounding on board headphone amp though.

In any case, I'll have a go at the full manual, give it a few more shots and see what's on.

Once again, thank you very sincerely for all your help. It got me far further along than my own guesses and trial and error.

Cheers...


PS: damn...summed mono all on track #3, again. I double and triple checked all the pan settings and still...bloody hell this if frustrating...back to the drawing board...

 

[quiberon]

However, on tape playback only track #3 seems to output to the board, only the #3 VU meters on the 34 and M-30 move, and the playback through the system splits that mono signal to both speakers, but still summed mono...or perhaps one channel from the original source into mono on both channels...

Going back to your earlier post; the fault above would suggest that unless there is a fault with channel #1 on the 34, that the record select button for channel #1 on the 34 was out, thereby keeping the channel in playback mode.

If I get the chance later today, (currently 1:00am here in the UK) I will fire up my M-30 & 34 and try to duplicate the fault.

Meanwhile you could try assigning input #5 on the M-30 to either output #2 or #4 to record on track #2 or #4 on the 34. Then playback through the corresponding channel on M-30.

Also, have you tried playing back one of your recorded once tapes to check the 34?

 

[Secret Saucer]

Going back to your earlier post; the fault above would suggest that unless there is a fault with channel #1 on the 34, that the record select button for channel #1 on the 34 was out, thereby keeping the channel in playback mode.

If I get the chance later today, (currently 1:00am here in the UK) I will fire up my M-30 & 34 and try to duplicate the fault.

Meanwhile you could try assigning input #5 on the M-30 to either output #2 or #4 to record on track #2 or #4 on the 34. Then playback through the corresponding channel on M-30.

I'll try that this Sunday.

Also, have you tried playing back one of your recorded once tapes to check the 34?

Interestingly, yes, I did. The VU meters on the 34, tracks #1 and #3 moved with the music, but on the M-30 only track #3 moved and playback through the system was again summed mono through the left channel speaker (when track #1 should be left and #3 right). So unless I'm just not getting the settings right somewhere, it looks like there could be some fault in the M-30.

Mystery continues...

 

[quiberon]

If you are still having no luck try this:

Firstly, double-check your connections between the M-30 & 34.

This checklist will use the submix section for playback.

View attachment M-30 Playback (Submix) & 34.pdf

 

[skywaveTDR]

How can this be so difficult- anyone who has hooked up a receiver in the past and understands the terms of the connection should have this done and working in less than 5 minutes. I would.

 

[skywaveTDR]

Look the failure of old mixers unless checked out entirely is expected at this point. You should have seen the list of things I found wrong with a M2524 which is a lot newer unit but made with the same poor manufacturing that I commonly see solder wise- it left my place working 100%.

So if a output of the mixer has a known good output- use IT to see if the other channels of the tape deck work. IF they do then the tape deck is not at fault. The M30 is a rather old unit and I remember them coming in to Teac when I was there and that was in the 80's. So it is very likely that a can of Deoxit will need to be at hand while working with this unit and I have found that sometimes the ribbon cables of the interconnects can go bad requiring a wire be soldered point to point to fix the interconnect problem- I have done it. Each piece of equipment should be checked out entirely before use so as to eliminate all these question of how to use it.
Heck I got a non-functional 688 in the other day and what was wrong with it? User putting 120Vac into a unit made for 240Vac 50Hz. People do not pay attention too well these days.

The fact is you can not get a unit from a pawn shop or E bay and expect that to work 100% they are all not tested and MOST likely defective in some way.

 

[CSP]

TalismanRich,

Re your question about why dubbing of the LPs in the first.

I have possibly a couple of LPs (most in perfect condition) and most never released on CD, so over the past year (COVID has helped !!!), I have been slowly converting these to digital and have then been burning these to CD.

Because my cartridge is a high end Ortofon and is designed to connect directly to an amplifier's magnetic pre-amp input, to do this I purchased from my local parts store (much like Radio Shack in the US) a "Turntable to USB Digitiser" as it has all of the required equalising settings for the different types of cartridges (as well as analogue audio outputs so that you can plug into an amplifier so that you can hear what is being recorded) and that device connects directly to my PC's (in this case a laptop) USB input and from there I simply record the entire LP one side at a time (not stopping for each track) into Audacity (or similar program), edit the Audacity file into the required track sequence (possibly do a bit of fine tuning, normalising, etc) and then burn the exported files to the CD.

I have also purchased an A3 printer (a Brother) that can scan a slightly oversized A3 image and thus I scan in the LP cover (sometimes I might have to take two scans if the cover has something at the top or bottom that I do not want to loose) and rear cover (and the fold out if there is one) put these into Photoshop and do a bit of cleaning/editing/etc then reduce the image to the required slick size and print onto matt photo paper (160 gms).

I also scan in the LP label and modify this (Photoshop) to remove the Side number, possibly the track listing, etc, then print this onto the CD using another printer that has CD printing facilities (be sure to burn the CD first as the printer head heat can ruin the CD if not burnt before being printed on). I also always use "Wide Print" CDs as these will allow almost the entire diameter of the CD to be used for printing with only a non printable area of about 12mm in the centre --- most CD-Rs have about a 20 - 30mm non printable area, thus causing a loss of quite a bit of the CD's label.

The end result is virtually a CD version of the original LP.

Re the converting of the LPs. Before I transfer these I get a small piece of damp (not watery wet) non lint rag and quite heavily clean both surfaces of the LP --- be sure to NOT wash them across the LP, but rather follow the track --- will be amazed what rubbish comes of even if having stored correctly !!! Then allow the LP surface to fully dry (I generally hold the LP by the edges and flap it up and down for a couple of minutes.

A reasonably long process for each LP done, but as the LPs have been carefully stored in a sealed box, it has been great to hear LPs that I have not heard (or seen) for many years.

David

 

[TalismanRich]

CSP, I'm at basically the same point as you. It used to be very common to put albums on tape, you could put two albums on a good reel of tape, or even a C90 cassette. Put the album away and don't worry about it getting scratched/dirty/ruined.

I had about 200 albums that were on the bottom shelf of my basement cabinet when we had a flooding incident (all the way back in 2009). I tossed all the paper sleeves and cardboard jackets and put the records in boxes under the steps. Now that I'm retired, I have started pulling out albums, cleaning with a combination of distilled water/99% isopropanol/a few drops of Photoflo. I have an old Diskwasher 4, a Zerostat, and a carbon fiber brush. I've thought about getting a vacuum cleaner, but haven't pulled the trigger on that. I have 50 new plastic/rice paper sleeves to store them in. If I can find a deal on blank cardboard sleeves, I'll grab a bunch.

I just replaced the 25+ yr old Audio Technica cartridge with a Super 10e. Its one of the few high compliance cartridges that works well with my Grace 707 arm. Everything is going from my Audiosource preamp out to the Tascam 16x08 into Reaper at 88k/24bit.
I've dumped several Nautilus albums (direct to disc pressings) that are out of print and not on CD, plus a record of my sister's high school chorus show that I had recorded on my old Dokorder 8140.

I haven't gone the route of printing labels. I'll transfer them to CD, but keep the raw files on an external hard drive. Some will end up as MP3s on flash drive in the car. I'm just happy to have the music back.

As for my curiosity, I was more interested in why the goal was to go to audio tape. Back when you could buy a case of 12 reels of 1800ft Maxell or TDK tape for $35, it wasn't a big deal. Now a single 7" reel of 1800ft ATR costs about $40. Of course, if you already have a case of tape, that's not an issue (as SS has).

 

[Secret Saucer]

At this point I have to think there is something wrong with the mixing board, the deck or both. As luck would have it I just discovered there is a TEAC/Tascam service center probably not much more than a half an hour's drive from me. I just emailed to inquire about having them look at the two pieces of equipment. They advertise that they work on RTR, so, if the service isn't priced astronomical, I might be able to have this sorted out by people who actually know the equipment and have worked on it in the past. My fingers remain crossed.

 

[Secret Saucer]

CSP, I'm at basically the same point as you. It used to be very common to put albums on tape, you could put two albums on a good reel of tape, or even a C90 cassette. Put the album away and don't worry about it getting scratched/dirty/ruined.

I had about 200 albums that were on the bottom shelf of my basement cabinet when we had a flooding incident (all the way back in 2009). I tossed all the paper sleeves and cardboard jackets and put the records in boxes under the steps. Now that I'm retired, I have started pulling out albums, cleaning with a combination of distilled water/99% isopropanol/a few drops of Photoflo. I have an old Diskwasher 4, a Zerostat, and a carbon fiber brush. I've thought about getting a vacuum cleaner, but haven't pulled the trigger on that. I have 50 new plastic/rice paper sleeves to store them in. If I can find a deal on blank cardboard sleeves, I'll grab a bunch.

I just replaced the 25+ yr old Audio Technica cartridge with a Super 10e. Its one of the few high compliance cartridges that works well with my Grace 707 arm. Everything is going from my Audiosource preamp out to the Tascam 16x08 into Reaper at 88k/24bit.
I've dumped several Nautilus albums (direct to disc pressings) that are out of print and not on CD, plus a record of my sister's high school chorus show that I had recorded on my old Dokorder 8140.

I haven't gone the route of printing labels. I'll transfer them to CD, but keep the raw files on an external hard drive. Some will end up as MP3s on flash drive in the car. I'm just happy to have the music back.

I use Amadeus Pro and a Furutech/ADL GT-40a for digitizing and it works well -- and is capable of 24 bit / 192kHz sampling. When I compare a file done at that sampling and bit rate and compare it with a dub done simultaneously to a type IV metal cassette on a Nakamichi CR-7, I often find I prefer the tape, though I vacillate. They do things differently. I find the bass is tightened up in the digital file, but that voices and acoustic instruments sound far more to my liking on the cassette. Then, if a reel is involved at 7.5 ips, for me it's the reel, hands down. Far fuller, far more satisfying sound -- worthy of dedicated listening and not background. Far closer to the sound of the actual source (to my ears, anyway), which is vinyl LP. I have a Pioneer RT-707 and probably around 75~100 still sealed 7 inch reels, mostly Maxells, that I've had for years and now that I'm old, we're in the midst of this weird Covid crisis, and I have plenty of time on my hands, it's time to play with this.

As for the Tascam, it does 15 ips and I really want to hear what that can do with a good recording on an LP. I have some high end MC carts and like to go light on them, so dubbing to tape makes sense from that end as well. Sadly, when you wear out a MC, you have to go for rebuild and that can be very spendy.

As for my curiosity, I was more interested in why the goal was to go to audio tape. Back when you could buy a case of 12 reels of 1800ft Maxell or TDK tape for $35, it wasn't a big deal. Now a single 7" reel of 1800ft ATR costs about $40. Of course, if you already have a case of tape, that's not an issue (as SS has).

Yes, I bought my tape long, long before it became the 'thing' it is now with crazy pricing for NOS, like what I just saw here:

ヤフオク! - 未開封 Maxell マクセル 35-180(N) 5本 ＋ 35-18...

Translation -- those 10 ten-inch NOS Maxell's just sold for US$1,330.52 with sales tax. $130 a reel.

And new tape? Almost as expensive. Even crazier -- NOS type IV cassettes. Just insane.

Needless to say if I didn't already have a bunch of tape and at least one working deck (only does 7-inch and 7.5 ips though), I would not be getting into this, unless that lucky lottery ticket I've been planning on getting finally came my way.

 

[TalismanRich]

SS, fair enough. I've done direct comparisons from my LPs and the 88/24 digital recording and couldn't tell ANY difference. I listened on both headphones (AKG and Sennheiser), my JBL 308 monitors and my IMF TLS50Mk2 speakers. Even the noise profiles sounded the same. That's usually a dead give-away for me.

My cassette deck is an old Harmon Kardon but it was never equal to the original records, even with metal tape.

How effective is Amadeus Pro's repair functions? Some of my albums have clicks and pops from years of use. That always drove me crazy, hence the reason I used to dump LPs to cassette or reel. Reaper doesn't allow you to redraw waveforms. Audacity will, but its a bit of a pain to do so. It would be nice to have a system with a better repair algorithm.