Tascam 38 alignment questions

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Hi_Flyer

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I was having some issues with my Tascam 38 that I bought back in the spring: it had a dying reel motor, there were some issues with the tape transport, plus it needed an alignment pretty badly... So I found a local tech with lots of R2R experience, but then he sorta flakes on me. he holds the deck for almost six weeks, putting me off, telling me he is "waiting for parts" etc... then he calls me up yesterday and tells me that the heads are shot and he can't align it, its too expensive to fix, but I get the distinct feeling that basically he doesn't want to touch the job cuz he just doesn't want to be bothered with it.

He showed me how the wear pattern on the heads is uneven, so I believe him that there are problems (there are flat spots on the lifters so the deck has seen some tape run through it), but I don't believe the machine is completely unsalvageable. on the other hand I can't spend a ton of dough on it...

Any recommendations on what to do here? Can I get a replacement headstack at a resonable price? If I get a new headstack and simply install myself, will it need further alignment/calibration/bias?
 
For everything you mentioned I think if it was my machine I would start looking for another that didnt need alot done to it.
Then I would keep this one for parts or part it out on ebay.
The machine you have now to me is just not worth the trouble and money you will have to spend on fixing it. And who knows what else may be wrong with it after all of the things you mentioned get fixed that is if you are able to do everything your self. When you start getting into a head block its not all that easy.
You should be able to get a couple of hundred out of the parts such as capstan motor and controler. Reel tables, Face plate and back plate even the feet and head cover are worth some bucks. These are items people are alway looking for to fix their machines or case parts cause of them stupid idiots at UPS. (Which still owe me 700.0 and wont pay) :mad:
Any way thats what I would do;) didnt mean to get off on a rant there.
Good luck with your unit.
 
Yup, I'd do exactly as Gary (Herm) recommends. Good advice above.
 
ok... hmm.

I called Reel Pro Sound Guys out in Montana, they said they can sell me re-furbished heads with 98% left on them for like $150 shipped, I should be able to install myself, and the deck doesn't really need further calibration.

Is this a good idea to try this before I part out the deck? Dude on the phone was super helpful and very knowledgeable. He said the deck can be useable without too much investment. sound right?
 
Just watch out for the death of a thousand cuts... you fix one thing only to find another problem on some of these machines and it never ends.

If the heads are worn down chances are other key parts are waiting in line to fail.

Plus, we can't be sure the tech that had it all these weeks didn't already take all the good stuff out and swap it for junk parts, including the heads. I’m afraid these sorts of scams do happen. Some techs are in the same league with shady car repair shops. If you go in and appear to not know much about the machine, they will take advantage of you.

Him keeping it for so long and claiming he was waiting for parts is a red flag. He should have seen the bad heads first thing. He could just be incompetent or he could be worse. :confused:

If you get new heads yes it will need calibration. No two heads are exactly the same, so the bias and even bias filters may have to be tweaked, plus physical alignment.
 
Hi_Flyer: listen to the guys as they know what they're talking about. Don't do the deal and rather keep or sell the deck for parts and get a new one, locally. Never buy a deck with problems you can't, yourself, fix. It may turn a good deal into a nightmare. The guy who offered you "refurbished" heads (I think he means "relapped"??), for $150, and said your deck "can be useable without too much investment", is full of shit and wants to sell you a product. Don't do it. Back away and take the advice above. A set of 3 original heads, from a low use machine, went for under 100 bucks a couple of days ago. I was very surprised as I though it'd end much higher, based on previous auctions and especially that 1 rec / play head costs like 500 from Tascam. (I have a feeling the seller lost a great amount on that deal;)). But that's neither here nor there. Point is, I'd never use good replacement heads on a well worn machine with problems.
 
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well, the re-lapped heads are $150

the machine cost me about $350 with dbx units included, which I sold so I got back like $100 on them, which almost covers the cost of the replacement heads... so at this point the machine has cost me in the neighborhood of $400 or so.

oh yeah, I also bought a capstan belt for $20 and solenoid which I didn't even need...

so altogether, at this point I'm at about $440 for a tascam 38 with heads at 98%. Is that so bad in terms of financial investment? I think I'm still doing alright, as I would expect to pay alot more for a machine that is tip top and up to spec (which this is deck is obviously NOT), say in the neighborhood of $500 and up. and let's be honest, the chances of finding something like that around here (pittsburgh) are probably slim. I mean, I might find something EVENTUALLY, but it might be a couple years. As it is, it took me a few years to find this deck locally. I would like to start making music sometime soon...

so what do I need to do once I get the replacement headstack? The dude at Reel Pro Sound told me that they guarantee the heads will be aligned, and after looking at the manual, I guess that means azimuth will be set and the heads are set perpendicular. So then I guess that I still need to calibrate, right? The manual says the circuit is pretty stable, what are the chances that significant drift has occurred? How many of you Tascam 38 guys have had to make significant adjustments here?

I would also need to adjust bias right? again, what are the chances of drift here? or should I try to figure this out by myself? it looks like I DO NOT need a test tape to bias (just a tone generator and a microhone), is that correct? test tapes are expensive and I'm not quite ready to invest in that, but I might attempt to figure out the bias...

any thoughts?
 
by the way, this is the website that has the parts. I was thinking about posting the link because the dude was super helpful and gave me a ton of info on my deck, plus they have a bunch of (reasonably priced) parts so I thought it may be a good resource for other Tascam 38 guys (and I know there are a ton of you guys around here).

http://www.reelprosoundguys.com/
 
Hi_Flyer said:
well, the re-lapped heads are $150

the machine cost me about $350 with dbx units included, which I sold so I got back like $100 on them, which almost covers the cost of the replacement heads... so at this point the machine has cost me in the neighborhood of $400 or so.

oh yeah, I also bought a capstan belt for $20 and solenoid which I didn't even need...

so altogether, at this point I'm at about $440 for a tascam 38 with heads at 98%. Is that so bad in terms of financial investment? I think I'm still doing alright, as I would expect to pay alot more for a machine that is tip top and up to spec (which this is deck is obviously NOT), say in the neighborhood of $500 and up. and let's be honest, the chances of finding something like that around here (pittsburgh) are probably slim. I mean, I might find something EVENTUALLY, but it might be a couple years. As it is, it took me a few years to find this deck locally. I would like to start making music sometime soon...

so what do I need to do once I get the replacement headstack? The dude at Reel Pro Sound told me that they guarantee the heads will be aligned, and after looking at the manual, I guess that means azimuth will be set and the heads are set perpendicular. So then I guess that I still need to calibrate, right? The manual says the circuit is pretty stable, what are the chances that significant drift has occurred? How many of you Tascam 38 guys have had to make significant adjustments here?

I would also need to adjust bias right? again, what are the chances of drift here? or should I try to figure this out by myself? it looks like I DO NOT need a test tape to bias (just a tone generator and a microhone), is that correct? test tapes are expensive and I'm not quite ready to invest in that, but I might attempt to figure out the bias...

any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Well it’s true enough that you have to start with something used because these machines aren't made anymore. However, my advice is to start with something as gently used as possible. There are plenty of 38s out there, some in a lot better shape than others. If the heads are gone it’s an indication other things that you can’t see have seen better days as well – motors, bearings, solenoids, etc.

If you get the whole headstack that’s a plus since you can just drop it in. Nonetheless changing erase and record heads will require tweaking the bias, even if it were one set of brand new heads for another set of brand new heads.

Same with record and reproduce levels… you can’t really guess how much a particular machine has drifted out of calibration, especially if a former owner has compensated electronic adjustments as the heads wore down. And you’ve had one tech fiddle with it. Who knows what he did or where he left it before throwing in the towel.

A calibration tape is a must have… I’m sorry to say, but you just can’t get past first base without one.

It’s you’re call whether that machine is a solid foundation to build upon. If you choose poorly it will be a money pit… you’ll easily put twice or three times into it what you have already and it still might not perform up to spec. You can get a low-use machine and spend less in the long run rather than trying to fix something with numerous issues, any one of which will make the machine unusable.

Reel Pro Sound will happily keep selling you parts, but a dying reel motor here and worn out heads there, etc, you can’t predict where it will end.

Even if you bought the machine for $50.00 or got it free for that matter, if everything is falling apart the final tally by this time next year will floor you. Like I said before, watch out for the death by a thousand cuts. It's only a small wound each time but in the end you still bleed to death. ;)
 
Hi_Flyer said:
I was having some issues with my Tascam 38 that I bought back in the spring: it had a dying reel motor, there were some issues with the tape transport, plus it needed an alignment pretty badly... So I found a local tech with lots of R2R experience, but then he sorta flakes on me. he holds the deck for almost six weeks, putting me off, telling me he is "waiting for parts" etc... then he calls me up yesterday and tells me that the heads are shot and he can't align it, its too expensive to fix, but I get the distinct feeling that basically he doesn't want to touch the job cuz he just doesn't want to be bothered with it.

He showed me how the wear pattern on the heads is uneven, so I believe him that there are problems (there are flat spots on the lifters so the deck has seen some tape run through it), but I don't believe the machine is completely unsalvageable. on the other hand I can't spend a ton of dough on it...

Any recommendations on what to do here? Can I get a replacement headstack at a resonable price? If I get a new headstack and simply install myself, will it need further alignment/calibration/bias?
Click to expand...

Pull the headstack (if you really want to find out) and send it to JRF Magnetics to see if they can be re-lapped. They will tell you straight up.
 
MCI2424 said:
Pull the headstack (if you really want to find out) and send it to JRF Magnetics to see if they can be re-lapped. They will tell you straight up.
Click to expand...

Won't that head report cost more than what that machine is worth in its current state?
 
well, i don't need to that anyway if i can get a replacement headstack for $150

at this point i am more concerned about getting it biased and calibrated. test tapes are expensive and it seems difficult to learn, but I'm thinking about trying to learn to do it myself. i don't think the tech found locally is too interested helping me.
 
You really need to have a test tape. I'd watch eBay for a used one manufactured not long ago, or just pony up the dough for a new one. I spent $140 on the 4-minute 4-tone 1/2" 15 ips tape and it's been well worth it to me.
 
Hi_Flyer, I get your point of view totally but you really should cut your losses now and start again with a "newer" machine, not neccessarily with another 38 but similar, condition being of prime importance. Again, listen to the advice above. Don't spend the time and money in a likely scenario of useless maintenance on a worn out machine.
 
Whoopysnorp said:
You really need to have a test tape. I'd watch eBay for a used one manufactured not long ago, or just pony up the dough for a new one. I spent $140 on the 4-minute 4-tone 1/2" 15 ips tape and it's been well worth it to me.
Click to expand...

was it difficult to learn how to calibrate and set the bias? I have been looking at the manual and it seems kinda hard to do, but not necessarily something that is beyond my capacity to learn. gotta have the test tape though I guess...

cjacek, I see your point too, and if something better came along, I might take it. I'm sure I could what I paid out back for this machine. but I'm only looking locally, and in the last three or four years, I haven't found much. The only better deck I've run across is that Otari deck that the douchebag tech is selling, and although I don't know what he would be willing to accept for it, for some reason I suspect its well out of my price range.
 
Hi_Flyer said:
but I'm only looking locally, and in the last three or four years, I haven't found much.
Click to expand...

Have you given it any thought into looking outside of your town, still driving distance, perhaps in another state? What's the situation like?
 
cjacek said:
Have you given it any thought into looking outside of your town, still driving distance, perhaps in another state? What's the situation like?
Click to expand...

I'm in Pittsburgh, so NYC is driving distance (although kinda far) and there are probably a ton of these decks around that area. DC/Baltimore area is about as far in the opposite direction. as far as smaller markets, there is Cleveland, Buffalo... Its doable, but I'm not luvin' the idea of driving 6 hours to pick up a deck. plus I have to track something down, and on top f that, I don't have several hundred to drop at once, its easier to pick up the tab in increments.

I guess I'm just finding it hard to believe that I can't get by with the deck I have right now in my possession, especially after talking to the guy from Reel Pro Sound. he told me I'm already in pretty good shape if my deck is recording/playing on all 8 channels. He had then chance to sell me a few more parts and didn't. He had the chance to talk me into shipping the entire deck out to him for complete re-furbishing, and didn't. He was pretty eager to give me some pointers on filing the flat spots on the lifters instead of selling me a replacement part.

Aren't most of you guys DIY anyway? Isn't this what it comes down to? The parts aren't what kills you, its the labor.
 
Hi_Flyer said:
Aren't most of you guys DIY anyway? Isn't this what it comes down to? The parts aren't what kills you, its the labor.
Click to expand...

Yes definataly, but part of the DIY process is choosing something that is indeed salvageable. It’s possible to have a machine that you can only get half way there no matter how much you put into it, unless of course you end up replacing everything but the frame. :eek:

My only caution (based on your list of problems in your initial post) is be sure your patient has a realistic chance. As a former EMT let me put it this way – when you come to the scene give your best efforts for the living. Of course you have to be able to distinguish those that can be saved from those that are already lost… that’s the first step.

If you’re like me, as much fun as tinkering and modding can be, the music comes first, so you’d rather be recording.

No one here can say with any certainty whether the machine you have can be brought back to good health or not. We’re just saying, based on your report thus far, to look carefully before you leap… and take your time. There is a learning curve here that can’t be rushed. If you don’t spend enough time in the research phase you will look back later and wish you had.

:)
 
Hi_Flyer said:
was it difficult to learn how to calibrate and set the bias? I have been looking at the manual and it seems kinda hard to do, but not necessarily something that is beyond my capacity to learn. gotta have the test tape though I guess...

cjacek, I see your point too, and if something better came along, I might take it. I'm sure I could what I paid out back for this machine. but I'm only looking locally, and in the last three or four years, I haven't found much. The only better deck I've run across is that Otari deck that the douchebag tech is selling, and although I don't know what he would be willing to accept for it, for some reason I suspect its well out of my price range.
Click to expand...

I basically just followed all of the manual's instructions as best I could with the equipment I have. I downloaded a free app called Visual Analyzer that has an oscilloscope and test tone generator, and used a voltmeter (and this link) to make sure I was sending the proper levels into the machine. It took me a few nights because I was inexperienced and sometimes I would do a step wrong and then have to go back and redo that one and any steps I did after it. However, I eventually got it pretty well. And my machine is an ATR-60, which I'm guessing probably has more adjustments than the 38 (maybe not though). Don't let it intimidate you; it's good to know exactly what is going on in that signal path, and calibrating it is a good way to learn.
 
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