Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
I understand.Well, now you know how I feel about all the stuff I criticize!
--Ethan
G
grandpixel
New member
I have read some of this thread, but not all. I like what you guys were saying about snake oil, smoke and mirrors, etc., and how listening equipment should be transparent. This is scientifically objective. It's up to the producer to make it sound good, which is artistically subjective. If you disagree with the producer and like more bass, fine... turn up your subwoofer, but the starting place should be measurably transparent reproduction.
It's obvious to me that some equipment changes audio signals. Quality speakers for instance, clearly sound vastly different from cheap speakers. On the other hand, bits passed through an expensive digital cable are identical to bits passed through a cheap digital cable.
Some equipment however, I just don't know about. Do amplifiers sound different from one another? How about digital to analog converters? I know too little about how they operate to draw my own conclusions. I would like to know these things, because I personally don't sleep better having given hard-earned money to support a false industry. I'd rather invest in something worthwhile.
In general, it seems like in the scientific world, things that are debatable are also doubtful. So if I just don't know about something, and people are arguing about it, it's probably not true. Everyone knows that there is a significant audible difference between $10 and $1000 speakers; that's not debatable. But $10 and $1000 digital cable? The camps are divided, and it's because there's no evidence for its benefit. We should always challenge a claim. Did you know that dihydrogen monoxide is a dangerous chemical compound? Please sign the petition to have its use banned!
Okay so that was just my basis for inquiring about the original topic, and I guess a little introduction since this is my first post.
I wanted you to know where I'm coming from, and looking for real, authentic solutions. I don't want any snake oil.
So I didn't read all posts in this thread, but what was the conclusion about noise in audio monitors? I would like to know, what are the possible causes, and corresponding solution for each cause? I have read a couple of articles about this, but they don't really give the information straight.
And by the way, the reason I am asking, I have a pair of KRK Rokit 5's and they are not used for recording, just for listening, and connected to my PC. I want to eliminate all sources of noise, like when I move my mouse and noise comes from the speakers, and like when I turn the amplifier up a bit with no signal going in, but hear some hiss.
I can describe my situation more later, but I thought monitor noise is common enough, there should be a clearly written primer somewhere that describes all sources and solutions. I can appreciate some experienced input from folks like you to provide some good information.
It's obvious to me that some equipment changes audio signals. Quality speakers for instance, clearly sound vastly different from cheap speakers. On the other hand, bits passed through an expensive digital cable are identical to bits passed through a cheap digital cable.
Some equipment however, I just don't know about. Do amplifiers sound different from one another? How about digital to analog converters? I know too little about how they operate to draw my own conclusions. I would like to know these things, because I personally don't sleep better having given hard-earned money to support a false industry. I'd rather invest in something worthwhile.
In general, it seems like in the scientific world, things that are debatable are also doubtful. So if I just don't know about something, and people are arguing about it, it's probably not true. Everyone knows that there is a significant audible difference between $10 and $1000 speakers; that's not debatable. But $10 and $1000 digital cable? The camps are divided, and it's because there's no evidence for its benefit. We should always challenge a claim. Did you know that dihydrogen monoxide is a dangerous chemical compound? Please sign the petition to have its use banned!
Okay so that was just my basis for inquiring about the original topic, and I guess a little introduction since this is my first post.
I wanted you to know where I'm coming from, and looking for real, authentic solutions. I don't want any snake oil.So I didn't read all posts in this thread, but what was the conclusion about noise in audio monitors? I would like to know, what are the possible causes, and corresponding solution for each cause? I have read a couple of articles about this, but they don't really give the information straight.
And by the way, the reason I am asking, I have a pair of KRK Rokit 5's and they are not used for recording, just for listening, and connected to my PC. I want to eliminate all sources of noise, like when I move my mouse and noise comes from the speakers, and like when I turn the amplifier up a bit with no signal going in, but hear some hiss.
I can describe my situation more later, but I thought monitor noise is common enough, there should be a clearly written primer somewhere that describes all sources and solutions. I can appreciate some experienced input from folks like you to provide some good information.
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Btyre2013
New member
I have read some of this thread, but not all. I like what you guys were saying about snake oil, smoke and mirrors, etc., and how listening equipment should be transparent. This is scientifically objective. It's up to the producer to make it sound good, which is artistically subjective. If you disagree with the producer and like more bass, fine... turn up your subwoofer, but the starting place should be measurably transparent reproduction.
It's obvious to me that some equipment changes audio signals. Quality speakers for instance, clearly sound vastly different from cheap speakers. On the other hand, bits passed through an expensive digital cable are identical to bits passed through a cheap digital cable.
Some equipment however, I just don't know about. Do amplifiers sound different from one another? How about digital to analog converters? I know too little about how they operate to draw my own conclusions. I would like to know these things, because I personally don't sleep better having given hard-earned money to support a false industry. I'd rather invest in something worthwhile.
Okay so that was just my bases for inquiring about the original topic, and I guess a little introduction sine this is my first post.
So maybe I didn't read the right posts, but what was the conclusion about noise in audio monitors? I would like to know, what are the possible causes, and corresponding solution for each cause? I have read a couple of articles about this, but they don't really give the information straight.
And by the way, the reason I am asking, I have a pair of KRK Rokit 5's and they are not used for recording, just for listening, and connected to my PC. I want to eliminate all sources of noise, like when I move my mouse and noise comes from the speakers, and like when I turn the amplifier up a bit with no signal going in, but hear some hiss.
I can describe my situation more later, but I thought monitor noise is common enough, there should be a clearly written primer somewhere that describes all sources and solutions. The problem is that I need some experienced folk like you guys to help me label the snake oil.
when I used to own a pair of KRK V6 monitors, they would buzz like crazy, I found out later on that this was a design floor...the transformer was in the wrong place, so I modded it and moved the huge toroidal transformer and voi la, all noise was gone, that's KRK for you
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ecc83
Well-known member
The absence of a proper specification for self noise for active monitors is one that annoys me greatly.
I have just spent some time on Google looking up the first 8 monitor mnfctrs that came to mind. I chose a lower priced, nearfield product in each case.
Tannoy 501a no spec for SN*. C'mon! Shape up Ts. I HAVE the 5As and like them!
Adam 7x, no spec for SN(and WTF does a sensitivity figure of -"infinity" to +14dB mean FCS?)
PMC no spec for SN
KRK (RKT 5) no spec for SN.
Sennheiser (aka K&H) YES! A proper figure reference to a setting of 100dBSPL for 0dBu input.
Quested (weird site!) give an amplifier signal to noise but not a lot of help unless they also give driver sens'. They don't!
Genlec. Yes but you have to download the manual to find it.
Focal. no spec for SN.
*I checked my Tannoys 10mins ago. Very cheapass SPL meter (but tis relative!) Room is at 25dBC and bringing the mic to within a mm of the bass drivers gives a wobbly 26SPLC . This includes the noise of soundcard (2496) and a small mixer set for my "normal" listening level.
So, it ain't hard to DO speaker people. Why don't you all do it?
Forgot: Reviewers will fart about with "burning in", interconnects and all such twaddle but they never just sit in a very quiet room with the samples and tell us what they hear!
Dave.
I have just spent some time on Google looking up the first 8 monitor mnfctrs that came to mind. I chose a lower priced, nearfield product in each case.
Tannoy 501a no spec for SN*. C'mon! Shape up Ts. I HAVE the 5As and like them!
Adam 7x, no spec for SN(and WTF does a sensitivity figure of -"infinity" to +14dB mean FCS?)
PMC no spec for SN
KRK (RKT 5) no spec for SN.
Sennheiser (aka K&H) YES! A proper figure reference to a setting of 100dBSPL for 0dBu input.
Quested (weird site!) give an amplifier signal to noise but not a lot of help unless they also give driver sens'. They don't!
Genlec. Yes but you have to download the manual to find it.
Focal. no spec for SN.
*I checked my Tannoys 10mins ago. Very cheapass SPL meter (but tis relative!) Room is at 25dBC and bringing the mic to within a mm of the bass drivers gives a wobbly 26SPLC . This includes the noise of soundcard (2496) and a small mixer set for my "normal" listening level.
So, it ain't hard to DO speaker people. Why don't you all do it?
Forgot: Reviewers will fart about with "burning in", interconnects and all such twaddle but they never just sit in a very quiet room with the samples and tell us what they hear!
Dave.
John Willett
Circle Sound Services
ME-Geithain also quote the noise specs for all their active monitors. 
ashcat_lt
Well-known member
This is actually a mathematical problem which is pretty easy to demonstrate. At least, the way that different wave frequencies interact can be demonstrated. Why our brains tend to prefer certain combinations over others is a bit deeper, and does have at least some psycho/social conditioning involved, but I think in general "good harmony" is preferred because it leads to relatively simple combined waveforms.