Studio Monitor Basics?

  • Thread starter Thread starter lcuddy
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lcuddy said:
On the other hand, there are many websites out there arguing for the usefulness of power conditioners and how superior they are....
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There are many websites out there arguing that using special power cables will improve "soundstage," "musicality" and assorted other ill- or un-defined qualities. They may well be the same websites.

As for frequency variation: does it matter any more? Turntables and tape decks (some of them, anyway) used the line frequency as a timing reference, but that's not highly relevant in a home recording context, and to the extent it is (turntables, I guess) - as already noted - the inaccuracy of the equipment is greater than any possible inaccuracy in the line current. Almost all audio equipment is on the other side of a transformer and runs on DC anyway. Generally, it doesn't care whether it gets 50 Hz or 60 Hz. If you use a device to "fix" the line frequency, you're presumably taking the line power, transforming it to DC, converting that back to AC, then transforming it back to DC again. Does that seem like a good idea?
 
Just to further clarify: the "special power cables" I mentioned are just ... power cables. Two connectors, some wires and a jacket, nothing else. Here's the writeup from one site for the "Shunyata ZTRON Anaconda Power Cable"

"The ZTRON Anaconda model represents Shunyata Research's reference for design, measurement and test purposes. Outside of the world's most celebrated professional music studios and the most finely calibrated sound and music systems, the Anaconda represents only the promise of what is possible at the outer-reaches of the ZTRON technology. The Anaconda holds a place as a reference-point for the industry, not as commercial success but as a product with no compromise and a single purpose; to showcase the startling performance effects of a technology fully realized. Like the Python, the Anaconda uses VTX (hollow-core wire geometry) conductors. The ZTRON Anaconda also introduces special (model name) AC connectors developed and made exclusively for this model."

If you're so inclined, one of these cables can be had for a mere $2,995 (same price for 4 or 6 feet). Exactly how it undoes the effect of the hundred feet of 50-cents-per-foot Romex in your walls is unknown (not to mention the miles of cable in the power grid).
 
Come on guys. I have these. I got to tell ya.They are not ordinary'.
If you ever get the chance (for example) ‘grabbing the line on one of these puppies’, Rather than violently buzzing’ and aversion and want to let go... There’s this IDK, you just get this warm feeling..
Well then you burst into flames.. but.. Really :)
 
I'll say what I do. UPS unit to avoid power failure interruption/voltage spikes ($150). Rack mount power conditioner to plug all of my gear into ($40 used).

The fact that I don't necessarily care what it does or how it works...Priceless.

:)
 
lcuddy said:
As far as I can see, evidence has not been provided on either side.
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What evidence will convince you that power products are a sham? The standard metrics for fidelity are all that's needed to assess changes to an audio signal. Then there's the null test which is even more convincing because it shows all changes including those you might not think to look for. So tell me exactly what proof you'll accept, and I'm pretty sure I can provide it.

--Ethan
 
Ethan Winer said:
What evidence will convince you that power products are a sham? The standard metrics for fidelity are all that's needed to assess changes to an audio signal. Then there's the null test which is even more convincing because it shows all changes including those you might not think to look for. So tell me exactly what proof you'll accept, and I'm pretty sure I can provide it.

--Ethan
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I use surge protectors, have for many years. There was a lighting strike and it ran through my DSL, through the hub and into the computer. It didn't fry the whole computer, but I did have to put in another Ethernet Car and replace my router and hubs. So, there are ways surges can get to your stuff.

Surge protectors, I still use them. It's like if I don't I just feel so "dirty and cheap".
 
What evidence will convince you that power products are a sham?
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Sure, I'd like to see a comparison study testing different levels of voltage with surge protectors and power conditioners. Does that exist? Again, your logic sounds great and I'm buying it for now, which is why I'm keeping my surge protector. But the point of studies is that logic does not always match the real world.

Would DM60s problem have been solved with a power conditioner?

Actually, let me also ask this. Let's assume you were given a decent power conditioner and a decent surge protector for free. Money is not a factor. Which would you choose or would it matter? I'm getting from you (Ethan) and some others that it wouldn't really matter. If that's the case, would there be a reason NOT to use the power conditioner if you got it for free?
 
Guys, there's a huge difference between a surge protector and a power "conditioner" product. A surge protector can be useful if it's robust enough, though many of them are not. The potential damage from lightning strikes is real and easy to document, as David pointed out. I've owned audio and other electronic devices for more than 50 years, and I've never had a problem due to AC power even though I never used a surge protector. Perhaps in some parts of the country (and the world) they're more necessary. There's also a legitimate need for power filtering in some situations, such as the RFI filter described in my Recording Magazine article Hum and Buzz, Clicks and Pops.

When power problems are real, they manifest as obvious clicks and pops and buzzing that anyone can easily hear. The fraud is when a vendor claims subtle improvements in clarity, imaging, bass fullness, etc. That is a lie that's easy to disprove by simple measurements.

--Ethan
 
I've had a network card/modem damaged (according to the retailer/warranty guys) by a lightning strike.

Once.

In 20+ years of computing.

However, I'd rather it didn't happen, so yes, if I got surge-protector for free, and it allowed me to protect my telephone line input to the modem, then great! I'd use it...
 
lcuddy said:
Would DM60s problem have been solved with a power conditioner?
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DSL, so far as I know, runs over phone lines. How would a power conditioner stop voltage coming through the phone line into a DSL modem? It doesn't set up a magical dome of invincibility around your house, so far as I know.

There are a number of possible problems, or threats of problems, one might worry about, and various solutions:

- The (fairly unlikely, but not nonexistent) danger of voltage surges coming through power lines as a result of lightning striking above-ground power lines, or misbehavior of the local power supply: surge suppressor. Lots of people have these, because they sell them in every hardware store in America, people often need to plug a bunch of things into a common outlet anyway, and it's often nice to have a bunch of things on a single switch.

- The (similarly unlikely) danger of voltage surges coming through phone lines as a result of lightning striking above-ground phone lines: lightning protection modules where the phone line enters your house. I don't think very many people have these.

- The (considerably more likely) danger of having things shut down or behave badly if there's a power outage or a "brown out:" uninteruptible power supply or - if you're thinking longer term - a generator. Some people have these, some don't. Of course, a laptop comes with a battery built in.

- Noise or some form of distortion getting into your signal lines as a result of noise or other irregularities in the AC power coming into your house. Generally, this doesn't happen. If you have the problem, you need to solve it with an appropriate device. If you don't, the device isn't doing anything, or at least not anything useful.
 
I hear ya Ethan. But then there isn't really a reason NOT to use a power conditioner if money is not a factor, right? What I'm getting is that there is little difference in sound quality with a surge protector, a power conditioner, or neither, except in the rare cases you mention.

If this is the case, then it can't do any harm to use a surge protector or power conditioner, right?
 
Right, adding a surge protector won't hurt anything. But again, the cheap ones don't do much and the good ones that actually protect well are expensive.

--Ethan
 
You're not even distinguishing between surge protectors and power conditioners. For you, they're all the same?
 
There are many different types and models, ranging from an MOV in a $8 power strip to units costing $5,000 or more. If there's anything not clear enough in my posts above, let me know and I'm glad to explain further.

--Ethan
 
Ok, let me be very specific then. I have a Belkin Surge Protector similar to this one. I've had this for years and never had a problem. As I mentioned before, the sound problem with my monitors was solved by balanced cables.

But, I also just got this Furman Power Conditioner.

My debate is over whether I should take the power conditioner back and stick with my surge protector.

What do you think?
 
lcuddy said:
My debate is over whether I should take the power conditioner back and stick with my surge protector.
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The spec that matters here is Joules, and the inexpensive unit on Amazon has much greater capability than the Furman. However, the spec for the Amazon model seems unreasonably high, so it might be bogus. I'm not saying it is bogus! Just that it might be. This article explains the basics:

HowStuffWorks "Surge Protector Ratings"

Note that the Furman includes RFI filtering which is useful for reducing buzzing from solid state dimmers, or audible clicks when motors turn on and off, similar to the RFI filter in my Hum and Buzz article I linked earlier. I'm sure the cheap power strip has no such filtering.

Do you have problems with hum and buzz or clicks and pops? If so, I'd keep the Furman and not bother with the cheap unit. Otherwise, the cheap unit is probably adequate to protect your gear from mild power surges.

--Ethan
 
Thanks Ethan. I don't have any problems with hums or pops since I got the balanced cables, so I'll stick with my surge protector.

Thanks again for all the info.
 
Bit of a round up if I may?
Power conns' (for that is what they mostly are): Peeps are saying "they do no harm even if they do no good".

Not so. Many of the cheap ones have two filter capacitors wired as a "Y" with the centre tap to earth. This can cause any incoming crap to be squirted into the ground wire and they also provide a handy inductor as an impedance back to the supply so that now your gear is sitting on a dirty ground!

If you have a problem with say a fridge THAT is the place to fit a surge protector and filter. Look inside any microwave oven and you will see a very chunky filter block in the mains input. But, if the guy next door MIG welds gokarts for a hobby you are pretty stuffed.

Lightning: I was a TV/VCR/Audio tech' for 40 years and saw maybe 2 or three damaged tellies a year. VCRs seemed to survive mains borne strikes, until that is they replaced the 25va mains traffs with SMP supplies. Then a LOT of blackness!

These of course were "secondary" induced currents. If you get a direct hit the last thing that will bother you is your audio rig!

Spikes from telephone outlets? Well WE have had a gas discharger in our Master Sockets for well over 1/2 Century!

Speaker plops? Bad design somewhere. I have Tannoy 5as and bang everything on and off from a double 13A outlet, narey a sound. But if you want to switch things off individually those RF mains remotes are good and very cheap.

Dave.
 
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