Studio.jpg, Help Me With My Soundproofing Design

[MusicMan91]

This is my plan for a room that has more soundproofing, so I can record vocals and other instruments in there. I will use some sort of carpeting that I will lay out on the floor. I will also most likely lock the casters into place. The reason I have to have casters and hinges, is twofold: first, I can't have anything that isn't removable, like a hook since it will mark the wall, and second, I hope that by changing the angle of the wood it could also change the sound providing another variable to achieve the sound I'd be looking for.

I could also use the remaining soundproof foam or some other device to put in any of the remaining crevices.

Any suggestions or further questions?

Thanks SO MUCH for your help,
Chris

 

[MusicMan91]

Also, the Auralex studiofoam wedges would be put on both sides of the wood.

 

[knightfly]

Chris, what you suggest will do pretty close to NOTHING for sound PROOFING - there are two almost completely separate goals for a sound room - one is to keep sound in or out - the other is to make the room "sound good" - what you propose will only affect the "sound good" part, but any sounds made outside the room will still get in, and vice versa.

If you're wanting to sound proof this room and can't make modifications to the room itself, the only thing I can think of that might work is a portable vocal booth, such as those from Whisperroom and possibly vocalbooth.com - neither of these would be cheap, but unless you can actually do carpentry in the room there is no way to change the amount of sound proofing by any noticeable amount.

In spite of some over-zealous ads by foam companies, there is no such thing as "sound-proof foam" - it only affects acoustics inside a room, not sound proofing.

I'd like to have better news for you, it would help a lot of people save a lot of time and money - unfortunately, the physics of all this are pretty stubborn... Steve

 

[MusicMan91]

Would it be a waste of time, or would it improve the sound quality? I realize it most likely won't keep all the sounds out butthere wouldn't be many sounds that would even get in there anyway. Any suggestions to my plan to make it a more effective use of improving sound quality? I could always remove the casters and use somre more ideas for soundproofing, I just don't know what else to do. The plan can be scrapped if a better one is suggessted.

 

[87PRS]

Hey MusicMan, this is new stuff to me too, but I'll throw in a suggestion. How about building a "box" outta 1/4 ply using 2X2's for the framing, glue then screw it all together, then when you want to move screw it apart, check out this link, they have some wall liner by the sq. foot that may help "sound proof" such a thing, just a thought, good luck and Merry Christmas! Ralph
http://www.acousticalsolutions.com

 

[knightfly]

Chris, PRS, keep in mind that the only thing that stops sound is MASS - 1/4 ply will attenuate high frequencies some, but do nothing for lows. Serious sound proofing requires two leaves of mass, separated by air and insulation - ideally this would be two completely independent shells 360 degrees around your space, separated by air and insulation. In actuality, this isn't possible without anti-gravity machines, but you can get close - just not in an apartment.

The dividers you show are referred to as "gobo's", which is a contraction of "go between" - they will change the acoustics inside a room, depending on where you put them - what they will NOT do is reduce the amount of sound getting into or out of that room.

If you can ignore the sales hype, go here

http://www.auralex.com/category_max-wall/category_max-wall.asp

and click on the picture over MAX-Wall 831 - it will show a better idea of what you could do with your three-panel wall.

Keep in mind that all that foam will take out most of the higher frequencies, which you'll make even worse if you add carpeting. Carpeting ONLY kills highs, and for good sound you need EVEN absorption. Even the foam won't go low enough in absorption frequency to do that, but it will probably sound better than the bare room - the panels will also take care of flutter echoes caused by your parallel walls.

They may, however, make the flutter caused by your floor and ceiling (being parallel) show up clearer. If so, you could make another panel that lays across the tops of your 3-panel divider (see the pic on the auralex site again) - if you were to put extenders on the ends of the panels that are away from the center one, your overhead panel would not be level and it should finish the job of killing any flutter.

Remember, all of this will probably make less than 2 dB difference in sound proofing, although maybe more if higher frequency traffic noise is part of your problem (while the foam is killing YOUR highs, it should also kill some of THEIR highs :=)

Gotta run for now, see if any of this made sense... Steve

 

[MusicMan91]

I will probably scrap that idea. I am now able to nail things into the wall, so that, I assume, should make this easier. The only reason I did like that idea was because I could change the sound based on the angle of the walls, could I still do that while soundproofing the room if I can now nail things into the wall. Basically there are no limits now, so I am going to scrap that idea and start anew.
What would you do in my shoes?

I have to say knightfly that you have been EXTREMELY helpful, and your knowledge on this topic has helped me to learn quite a lot.

 

[knightfly]

OK, whole new game now -
When you say "no limits", does that include removing wallboard from inside walls and starting over?
How much isolation do you need, and from what?
If you can, a drawing with dimensions, including room height, would help a LOT -
What's your budget?
Your abilities/tools?
What about the main (and secondary) function of the room?
Also, what's your general location? (been bitten by that one before, not all materials are available (or cheap) in all parts of the world)
What about neighbors, upstairs/downstairs, next door, assholes or reasonable, etc...

That should get us started... Steve

 

[MusicMan91]

OK, whole new game now -
When you say "no limits", does that include removing wallboard from inside walls and starting over?

No, that is a no go, unfortunately. Sorry, I didn't think of that when I said "no limits." I am fairly confident removing the wallboard won't be an option.

How much isolation do you need, and from what?

Well, it is in my basement. There is a washer and dryer nearby, a television and a pool table also all reasonably close. All these variables can be rather easily controlled.

If you can, a drawing with dimensions, including room height, would help a LOT

Well, the dimensions I would have would be Length: 7.2 ft, Width: 7.6 ft, Height: 6.3 ft. These dimensions were on the original drawing of the original plan that I provided a link for in the first post, at least I think so, I put them up in the corner so they may be hard to see.

What's your budget?

$1,000 is around the maximum, but if there is a significant reason to go a little over that, then I would most likely be willing to do so.

Your abilities/tools?

I could have numerous people help me for free, and I am sure I could get my hands on some tools for I know people that have an awful lot.

Also, what's your general location? (been bitten by that one before, not all materials are available (or cheap) in all parts of the world)

I live in a suburb of Chicago, with Chicago being not a far drive, and a drive I'd be willing to take.

What about neighbors, upstairs/downstairs, next door, assholes or reasonable, etc...

The ceiling of the basement was purposefully insolated so that more sound would be drowned out, that way whatever goes on down in the basement, the sound isn't a bother to anyone else.

Hope that helps.

Thanks again,
Chris

 

[knightfly]

So, you're basically looking to come up with a booth for recording vocals, etc, and are not very worried about sound control between booth and outside? Is this also true between the booth and your other basement area, which I gather is where you're set up with your recording gear? In other words, your main concern with the "booth" is that it sound good to record in, not that it's isolated from anything else?

Don't mean to belabor any points, but without a full understanding of your intent I'd probably spend 'way too much time helping you solve a problem you don't have... Steve

 

[MusicMan91]

So, you're basically looking to come up with a booth for recording vocals, etc, and are not very worried about sound control between booth and outside? Is this also true between the booth and your other basement area, which I gather is where you're set up with your recording gear? In other words, your main concern with the "booth" is that it sound good to record in, not that it's isolated from anything else?

Don't mean to belabor any points, but without a full understanding of your intent I'd probably spend 'way too much time helping you solve a problem you don't have... Steve

If I didn't want isolation, why would I try to be building a soundproofed room, or as soundproofed as I can get it. It is true that there wouldn't be a whole lot of noises outside the booth that I couldn't control, but wouldn't it still be wise to have this sort of booth or no? I thought that it would be since even if the outside noises were quiet, it would still sound a lot different in an open basement with the sound being able to bounce off everything.

With my current condition and budget, I am trying to make a room that is as soundproofed as possible, or do you feel that is not a necessary thing to do?

 

[knightfly]

I'm not trying to change your mind, just trying to make sure I know what it is - so far, all I know is that you want to record vox and some other instruments, you're in a basement, and (I think) you're doing laundry in the room you want to isolate and still have good sound in - I'm not a mind reader, so I was trying to get you to lay out more details of what you have, what you want, and how long/expensive the path between those two will be.

In order to do that, I need all the info I can get about what's already there (in DETAIL), where it is in relation to other rooms and functions, and then we can start working out what can be done, what MUST be done, what should NOT be done, etc - This will take several posts back and forth, but eventually it will start to make sense. It will also most likely irritate you from time to time when I ask dozens of seemingly meaningless or repeated questions, but details are what makes acoustics/sound proofing either work or fail.

One thing that speeds up the process is graphics - the more details drawn out, the less words are necessary for communication. Another thing that helps is a complete description of what is going to happen where -

So, as repetitive as it seems, if you can clearly state just what you're doing where, and also make a drawing or three to illustrate, then I can help you get what you want. Without that, I can only guess, which will leave BOTH of us frustrated.

If you can do a layout drawing of your space, and describe exactly what construction is already in place (ceiling joists, wall panels, framing type/spacing, etc) then we can get started. Similar threads have run into 4-5 pages, but in the end the results were there, and the people involved were more than happy with the results.

If you're up for it, let's get started - I need details and drawings with as much info as you can cram into them... Steve

 

[MusicMan91]

It is an open basement including: a washer and dryer, a television, two windows, a leather sofa and leather chair, a pool table as well as a card table. The card table will be folded up and moved, however, to allow space for the room I hope to create. The space I have available is: Length: 7'2", Width: 7'6", Height: 6'3". Note that the dimensions I have allowed can fluctuate an inch or two, width and length can though not height since the height i fixed. If you deem it necessary I could add an inch or two to the length or width. In this space, there are two lights on the wall, both at a height of 5'1". There also would be two electrical outlets and one phone outlet. The current floor is tiled and the ceiling and walls are heavily insolated. Between this space and the dryer, with the washer being directly to the right of the dryer, is a wood counter with a stone countertop that is mainly used for laundry. This is 26.5 inches from the space I have currently alotted for this project. The stone countertop overhangs the wood counter by 9 inches. The space I have alloted is 40 inches, give or take an inch, from the dryer. The rest of the basement has a ceiling with different heights, so though the ceiling of the overall basement is not fixed with some areas having a lower ceiling then others, the area that I would build this room has a fixed height of 6'3". What specific drawings do you need? I could always take a picture and scan it in at Kinko's, since I don't believe my scanner works now, unfortunately.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[knightfly]

I'm starting to get an idea of your space, but if you have a drawing program (even Paint on PC is usable) then a rough floor plan including what's there and where you intend to build any walls, etc, would help. Although a pic would be nice, if it's that much work let's try to do without for now.

You mentioned "heavily Insulated" - can you see the insulation, or is there a covering over it? What is the covering, if there is one?

When you look up, do you see insulation with floor joists between, or is the ceiling covered? What with?

This is the type of info that's necessary before I'll have an idea of what you need to do - So, at least a floor plan, possibly a side view (elevation), with descriptions of construction as if you had built it step by step - as for other stuff, am I correct in assuming you're going to have recording gear set up in another part of the basement? Probably need to consider at least a couple of mic feeds and headphone connections into the booth, and since sound proof means hermetic seals, some type of baffled air supply so you can breathe without losing isolation.

Each post gets us closer... Steve

 

[MusicMan91]

I'm starting to get an idea of your space, but if you have a drawing program (even Paint on PC is usable) then a rough floor plan including what's there and where you intend to build any walls, etc, would help. Although a pic would be nice, if it's that much work let's try to do without for now.

You mentioned "heavily Insulated" - can you see the insulation, or is there a covering over it? What is the covering, if there is one?

When you look up, do you see insulation with floor joists between, or is the ceiling covered? What with?

This is the type of info that's necessary before I'll have an idea of what you need to do - So, at least a floor plan, possibly a side view (elevation), with descriptions of construction as if you had built it step by step - as for other stuff, am I correct in assuming you're going to have recording gear set up in another part of the basement? Probably need to consider at least a couple of mic feeds and headphone connections into the booth, and since sound proof means hermetic seals, some type of baffled air supply so you can breathe without losing isolation.

Each post gets us closer... Steve

I realize how helpful actual pictures would be, so tomorrow I will take some photos, get the pictures developed, and scan them in at Kinko's, email them to myself, and put them up on my server. That won't be a problem.

The basement was redone last year, so the insolation is hidden behind the wood of the ceiling, so the insolation can't be seen. It is like having insolation inside your walls, just only inside the ceiling. So when I look up I only see the wood of the ceiling, no insolation.

The recording equipment will be in another part of the room. close by to this area.
The mic feeds and headphone connections are a good point.

I will try to get the pics as soon as possible tomorrow. Sorry I can't get them today.

 

[MusicMan91]

If you wouldn't mind telling me exactly what pictures you want, and from what angles, and any other specific information about what you want with the pictures that would be very helpful. Do you want a picture of the whole basement, which would be maybe 6 or 7 full shots, or what?

Thanks,
CHris

 

[knightfly]

When you're taking the pix, try to get shots of areas you know will need work - looking into and out of the booth area, a close-up of door frame, another looking up into a corner of walls and ceiling, anything that might show me what would need changed in order to improve your isolation. At least one "wide angle" of the whole area would be good if you can.

Also, if you could start thinking like a carpenter, and instead of terms like "wood", "wall", etc, describe things as if you were going to (or already had) BUILT them - by that, I mean EXACTLY what is on the ceiling, how is it fastened, is it caulked, sealed, painted, is there molding around the perimeter, how thick (if you can tell), does anything rattle when you slap the wall, any details that will help me "be there" -

Is your upstairs/downstairs isolation as good as you need it? I know you said it was "heavily insulated", but are you happy with it as is, and mainly just need "horizontal" sound proofing between the laundry area and your recording space?

Basically, you need to be my eyes and ears, so any details you notice that might affect your usage of the areas in question will be useful... Steve

 

[MusicMan91]

Here is a drawing I made of the space in which I plan to build this room: http://clickworthy.hypermart.net/Drawing.jpg

I took some pictures, but must have lost the one that shows the view from behind the pool table and shows the unevenness of the ceiling in the other part of the basement.

Here are the 5 I scanned:
Stairway: http://clickworthy.hypermart.net/Staircase.jpg
Side View Of The Area I will put my gear on: http://clickworthy.hypermart.net/SideControlRoom.jpg
Area where the room will be built: http://clickworthy.hypermart.net/Space.jpg
Laundry Room Area: http://clickworthy.hypermart.net/LaundryRoom.jpg
View from standing with my back to the wall of the space I have provided to create the project to the front of the "control room" area: http://clickworthy.hypermart.net/BackControlRoom.jpg

If you need any more descriptions, pictures, and/or drawings please let me know. I am pretty free tomorrow so I will be able to do all of the above or anything else you want.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[knightfly]

Chris, pix are probably enough but I need more details on the floor plan - I've done a rough sketch in Paint that's not right but shows the kind of detail I need - it doesn't need to be exact scale, just close. Adding text explanations with arrows, etc, helps a lot. Also info like whether you can/will build walls OVER existing tile or remove tile where the wall goes, don't be afraid to put more info than necessary, it's easier to filter out stuff I don't need than to try and imagine things I DO need to know.

Paint isn't the best by far, but if you play with it a bit, zooming in to draw smaller details, using color for separation of things, etc, makes it easier to explain things... Steve