Studio-in-a-Box Right For Me?

[A Reel Person]

Y'know,... on cassette Portastudios and analog mutitrackers,...

I already have mine, so I'm very satisfied. I only post this info on these boards for the benefit and enlightenment of new users, or those who are considering what to buy & how to get into the field of recording.

Guys like myself and Richie have been doing this for years, and we're fairly confident in our own methods and setups as being viable and fitting to our own needs. To have Reel and Richie in a debate about multitracking is not necessarily for the benefit of either Richie or Reel. No doubt, as someone said before on another thread, that we always tend to advocate what we use. Richie will always advocate the "PXR4 to VS2400 to PC" route, and I'll always advocate the "best Tascam Portastudio you can afford" route of going about recording. Yes, to each their own. Richie and I will always be this way.

It's when an "I don't know what I want or need but I gotta have digital" mentality pervades through the Newbie camp, that I stand up and offer what I see as a legitimate alternative. Read all about it, above.

Take my advice or leave it. If people don't see high end cassette Portastudios or analog recording as one choice in a huge field of viable solutions, I think they've missed the boat.

 

[A Reel Person]

Aaaaaaagggggghhhhh!! I could've just quoted myself!!!

...The PXR-4, MR8, BR-532 & minidisc portables have an internal mixing function that's used on playback, but there's no mix section that may be applied to the recording function. It's just 2-inputs, recorded raw and straight in. For any mixing of your live sound, an external mixer must be employed.
...

I stand by that quote!

 

[Richard Monroe]

See, I told you we basically agree, we just have different methods. I don't want to combine tracks into submixes going in. I want each track as a discrete and separate entity that can be processed independantly. I don't want mic bleed, or track bleed, or any kind of submixes. If I've got 6 mics on a set of drums, then I want 6 tracks (and of course, mic bleed is a necessary evil). The results may not be that different. Using machines that are limited to 2 simultaneous tracks in has caused me to explore the envelope of stereo recording.. In the studio, I have 18 simultaneous tracks in, with 32 out. My space does not permit me to use them all, anyway, and I have achieved better results in most cases using far less than that.
But- my setup wasn't really designed for live studio recording of bands. I record acoustic acts, small jazz combos, Celtic folk, and small classical ensembles. Nothing I want to do would ever involve mixing going in. I don't even own a mixer, except the Digi002, and that's not really what I use it for. See, Richie and A Reel Person aren't arguing digital vs. analog, or even digital portable multi-tracker vs cassette based portastudio. We just use methods that are influenced by the equipment we use, and equipment that is influenced by the methods we use.
Of course, digital recording with 8 simultaneous ins on batteries is easy. It just takes money, and the willingness to carry around more equipment. A Roland VS2000CD, a motorcycle battery, and a power invertor will work just fine. I'll get my 8 tracks, with XLR ins and phantom power, with EQ and FX. But, it'll still be 8 distinct tracks without a buss in sight, even though the Roland can easily do that (You can patch all 8 inputs to one track, if you want to). But, I prefer to use a pocket sized machine for remote stereo recording, and bigger machines in the studio. As I said above, A Reel Person's methods are just as valid as mine. I also react when the analog option is not considered, when it can do the job. My impression is that Laure is doing fine. He or she is a realist, who asks intelligent questions, takes well to reality checks, and plans before acting. In the end, Laure will choose his or her own methods. We're both just trying to offer options-Richie

 

[Kryptik]

Just something I'd like to add.

You can download software from korg's website that will convert the MP2s into .wav. That way all you have to do is download your tracks straight into the computer, and you don't have to worry about the AD conversion of your sound card. I don't know if they have the converter for mac though.

I've had mine for a few months now and I find I use it more than my bigger board. Mostly for jam tapes and scratching down ideas for riffs and stuff. The internal mic is quite good, but is kind of pickey about placement. The engineer in me really likes that, but the musician in me just wants to press record and go. What I was thinking of doing is attaching some velcro to the back of the box and some to a mic stand to make placement easier. I'll let you know how that goes when I get around to doing that. But knowing how long it takes me to get to anything, somebody else probably would have already tried it. The mic is a little bassey though and you may need to eq some of that out. Just a little low shelving roll off would do. (I think around 100-200Hz.)

Oh and low shelving roll off is when you pick a frequency and lower the volume on all frequencies lower than that. It is usually pretty standard with most software eq's. Just look for a parametric eq menu option or window pane in your software. I've seen them with graphic eqs also, though shelving eq is usually found with parametric eqs.

Oh, and don't worry about the learning curve. After a little while a lot of this stuff will be second nature. And remember, the steeper the learning curve, the more you'll learn. I learned a lot more about recording since I upgraded from my 10 year old 4 track tape recorded to a more complicated setup than I've ever have before and I still have a lot more to learn. Don't get me wrong, you WILL learn a lot with the Pandora, especially if you learn about all of it's features and how to use them in practice. Just don't try and learn about them all at once. Take it one or two features at a time, or one or two per day. And before you know it you'll have a pretty good idea about what you need to spend money on when you upgrade. I know I'm kind of rambling on about nothing, I hope it helps.

 

[A Reel Person]

Okay, but...

If you're talking about recording 6-discrete tracks for your drum recording, the Pandora PXR4 is not gonna do that.

If we're talking about any other recording with available AC line power, then my recommendation would change considerably.

The question was about a single portable device that would be suitable for field recording and also "producing" the band, (that's also affordable). Under those circumstances, the Porta Two is best in class. Used, classic or vintage, however you want to describe it, some designs are timeless.

Simple live-to-stereo recording is great, and I've done much of it myself, but it's a whole different thing than "mixing/mastering" (producing the band).

If you want to talk about full-blown studio recording in the home, then that's a whole other post!

I never said any of the PXR4-MR8-Boss-Zoom devices were "useless", but I pointed out repeatedly that they're "limited". If you want to sacrifice all sorts of higher utility for the word "d******" in front of the product name, then that's a personal choice.

This is not an analog/digital debate!

 

[Richard Monroe]

Yo Laure! If you're interested, I can send you a CD of a Pandora demo I did recently. Unfortunately, I can't post it up, because it's a cover, and even though I have paid the mechanical royalties (it's on my first album), I'm not sure about the legal issues of posting it up on line. ($.08 per hit? Jeez, I don't know). It was really an experiment in what kind of sound I could get from the Pandora if I sent it the best signal possible. I started with a click track, and laid down the rhythm using a telecaster through a Crate MX15R amp (so shoot me), mic'd up with a B.L.U.E. Kiwi into an Avalon AD2022, into the Korg. Lead was added using a Pod Pro 2.0 jacked into an M-Audio SP5B and an SBX subwoofer, mic'd up with the Kiwi into the Avalon, into the Korg. Vocals were done with a Rode NTK into a Joemeek twinQ, compressed at 2:1, into the Korg, using the Pandora's reverb. Lastly, bass was added with a Squier P-Bass, into the Avalon, into the Korg. All EQ was done in the Korg, and the click track was converted to a 16 beat drum track, and the final mix EQ'd, entirely in the Pandora. I ran the final mix in analog real time, by line out, into my Digi002, for A-D conversion, and then to a Roland VS1824CD, so I could burn it to CD. I often use the Roland instead of a PC for this, because I understand it better than my PC. In other words, I used $10,000+ worth of outboard gear to send the best signal I possibly can to the Pandora, and then mixed and mastered it in the box. It's like a Ferrari-powered Geo Metro! Anyway, send me a mailing adress by PM or email, and I'll send you a copy. I've heard Steve Vai's Pandora demo on the Korg site, and although I am not even close to his ballpark as a guitarist, the quality of my recording is as far ahead of his as his guitar playing is beyond me.-Richie

 

[laure]

Thanks, everybody--Richie, Reel, Mshilarious and Kryptic. I'm continuing to check back here for your thoughts, even when I'm not responding.

Richie, yeah, I'm definitely interested in hearing your demo! I'll PM you as soon as I'm done here.

And Reel, I understand that this isn't an analog/digital debate. Your first reply put me at ease as far as the fidelity and usefulness of the Porta Two from that standpoint. I'm still probably going to go with the PRX4, though, for reasons of portability (that thing is tiny!) and mainly because I don't see myself needing to do any pre-mixing. For now I've pretty much scrapped the concept of recording/producing my group--I think I'm biting off enough for now with just my "sound collecting" project. As a complete beginner, I'll have plenty to learn from that alone. And the whole concept of that project is to collect raw sounds and play with them after the fact, not before, so . . .

I'm looking at a couple of the PXR4s on eBay right now, and I'll let you all know how things go if/when I score one and get started with it. That will take a few weeks at least, because I still need to pick up an external mic for it (most likely), get myself some mixing software, and start getting up to speed with it all.

Oh, and for the record, I'm a "she."

-laure

 

[lufc71]

only 10 points??

Thanks again!

::glancing at clock::
"It's one o'clock, and time to shop. Hum-dee-DUUUUM-dee-dum."

(Ten points to whoever can name the lyrical reference!)

-laure

Great band (Genesis) - Great song (I Know What I Like)

You asked a good question and got some really good replies (shit, I didn't realise it woz gonna be sooo technical!!). I'm trying to do the same thing (record guitar on a PC). I have no problems recording my keyboard (Roland G-600) using Cubase or Native Pro Five (using a MIDI connector to my Creative SoundBlasterLive soundcard). Unfortunately, when connecting my guitar directly to the soundcard (dont laugh, I'm a newbie!! and I dont even know if this is possible) it does not appear to be detected. I'm thinking this is because both are looking for MIDI devices only?? Anyway, better get back to reading some more replies!! Good luck.

 

[laure]

Okay, 50 points then . . .

Hi, Lufc71, and welcome! Hah--thought no one was going to respond to that question. Good to see another Peter Gabriel-era Genesis fan here--and yes, for resurrecting the lyric from earlier in the thread, you get 50 points!

Your setup question might do better in another thread that's more topical (re: guitars), but I've gotten some great advice here already, as you saw. Good luck!

-laure