studio construction: plz help

[nomadbyfate]

When is the last time you used a table saw?

i did do a crash course on carpentry, nothing advanced just basics.
your designs are pretty impressive

 

[wavewarrior]

When is the last time you used a table saw?

No disrespect was meant in my $10K statement about the room design with all of the diffusers; it’s a work of art.

So yes, the design is totally awesome, looks like some of the pro rooms I’ve worked in over the years.
If my $10K estimate was wrong, what would be a more accurate one?

Thanks

 

[chronicle]

If my $10K estimate was wrong, what would be a more accurate one?

Given the whole job is DIY, and the chosen sheetgoods finish or substrate material, the total price of the required number of sheets plus finish costs would be fairly accurate ..for the diffuser end of things at least. For instance, you could machine the parts from plain MDF and finish to taste post assembly, fairly cheaply. On the other hand, machining from solid Pearwood would easily approach your estimate. However, there is a hidden part of this design concept which can add a substantial cost..the absorption material. Here is why...

That design is actually based on a MY ROOM concept developed by Bogic Petrovic(or "boggy" on most studio forums), who is a Pro studio designer in Europe. Unfortunately, to correctly implement the design requires strict mathematical calculations based on his equations relative to the chosen space. Unfortunately, what one DOESN'T see, is the depth of absorption behind the diffusers, which can be substantial as this is the exact point of a MY ROOM concept..low frequency control while diffusing mid/highs throughout the entire room. While I understand the concept to some degree, my use of the design in an arbitrary room via Sketchup took liberty with his science. If you want to "boggle"(no pun intended) your mind, here is the scientific paper on it...

http://www.myroom-acoustics.com/hosted/myroom-acoustics/MyRoom_Design-white_paper.pdf

However, if one wants to see a design which truly staggers the mind in terms of woodwork, budget notwithstanding..take a look at Blackbird Studios...


9 TONS of MDF, CNC machined and assembled by virtue of a proprietary mathematical sequence developed by George Massenberg.



This redefines the word..sawdust.

 

[nomadbyfate]

these are the pics of the space


plz check previous page for details

 

[miroslav]

Isn't that where the orcs and goblins live?

 

[nomadbyfate]

 

[chronicle]

Well..at least no one can claim its too dead in there.

 

[chronicle]

Let me ask you a direct question. Are you here to learn how to enclose this space in regards to a studio? Or is someone else going to do that part first?

 

[nomadbyfate]

Let me ask you a direct question. Are you here to learn how to enclose this space in regards to a studio? Or is someone else going to do that part first?

i am trying to figure out what would be the best option for a mixing room within those constraints, before we enclose those walls.
so i still have the option to decide what width and length the room would be.

 

[chronicle]

i am trying to figure out what would be the best option for a mixing room within those constraints, before we enclose those walls.
so i still have the option to decide what width and length the room would be.

Oh, well then, you need to visit John Brandt's site and download the Mode calculator. This will tell you the best ratio of room dimensions that will fit.
He's also a member here, and may pop in to help too. He's one of the best studio designers in the world.

JH Brandt - Recording Studio Design and Acoustic Consulting

Just remember, it's the finished size of the room that matters. Not the envelope interior. That is..if you are planning on building a Room within a room. Which, from the looks of it, you'll have to do just to get insulation up. Of course, you haven't told us anything about your intent yet. Try to answer those questions I gave you. Btw, what are you planning on doing about HVAC? One more thing..where are you?

 

[wavewarrior]

Given the whole job is DIY, and the chosen sheetgoods finish or substrate material, the total price of the required number of sheets plus finish costs would be fairly accurate ..for the diffuser end of things at least. For instance, you could machine the parts from plain MDF and finish to taste post assembly, fairly cheaply. On the other hand, machining from solid Pearwood would easily approach your estimate.

http://www.myroom-acoustics.com/hosted/myroom-acoustics/MyRoom_Design-white_paper.pdf

However, if one wants to see a design which truly staggers the mind in terms of woodwork, budget notwithstanding..take a look at Blackbird Studios...


9 TONS of MDF, CNC machined and assembled by virtue of a proprietary mathematical sequence developed by George Massenberg.

View attachment 83594View attachment 83595

This redefines the word..sawdust.

Ok, my estimate for that room build, less equipment is around $30K

Very nice room by the way.

 

[wavewarrior]

these are the pics of the space

View attachment 83599View attachment 83600View attachment 83601

Wow, a room with a view, too bad its not easy to incorporate the view into the design, would be inspiring for song writing.

Years ago I did a session in the United Artists Tower in Nashville, the round building. Anyway the studio was on one of the top floors and had an awesome view. At night it looked like you were looking down at the stars. Songwriters really loved the place because of the creative vibe it brought out in them.

Cool project you have there, best of luck with it!

 

[nomadbyfate]

Oh, well then, you need to visit John Brandt's site and download the Mode calculator. This will tell you the best ratio of room dimensions that will fit.
He's also a member here, and may pop in to help too. He's one of the best studio designers in the world.

JH Brandt - Recording Studio Design and Acoustic Consulting

ahh yes mr Brandt's website: a lot of information

Just remember, it's the finished size of the room that matters. Not the envelope interior. That is..if you are planning on building a Room within a room. Which, from the looks of it, you'll have to do just to get insulation up. Of course, you haven't told us anything about your intent yet. Try to answer those questions I gave you. Btw, what are you planning on doing about HVAC? One more thing..where are you?

mr Jeff has suggested to replicate the brick wall in front of the concrete wall, i hope that works. honestly i find it terrifying to build a room and later on find out that it is impossible to achieve stereo imaging balance. wow i haven't thought about insulation or HVAC.

well, as i mentioned earlier i am going to be mixing guitar and drum tracks, and later on if things work out may be turn it into a professional studio
thank you for your interest in my build and all your advice.

yes, i am writing from india.

 

[nomadbyfate]

sounds really inspiring

thanks, to the right of the place there are mountains from where the sun comes up in the morning
i am trying to find a place for a window in the room, and also maybe a patio somewher in the space just to relax

 

[wavewarrior]

Maybe a nice patio with that view is all you need.
All the best!

 

[nomadbyfate]

thank you

 

[jhbrandt]

Wow, a room with a view, too bad its not easy to incorporate the view into the design, would be inspiring for song writing.

Years ago I did a session in the United Artists Tower in Nashville, the round building. Anyway the studio was on one of the top floors and had an awesome view. At night it looked like you were looking down at the stars. Songwriters really loved the place because of the creative vibe it brought out in them.

Cool project you have there, best of luck with it!

Wave,
That wouldn't happen to be Gene's old place with the MCI JH-536, would it? (Gene Breeden)
Cheers,
John

 

[nomadbyfate]

mr. Brandt, i've heard great things about you.
could you give us some advice??

 

[wavewarrior]

Wave,
That wouldn't happen to be Gene's old place with the MCI JH-536, would it? (Gene Breeden)
Cheers,
John

Hard to remember if it was an MCI or not, it could have been, it was back in 1985-1986 and most of the newer desks in town were Neve, Harrisons, MCI and SSL. I thought Jim Varney had something to do with the place, could be wrong, that was many brain cells ago. lol

I did most of my stuff at Larry Rodger’s place “Studio 19” on a sweet Trident 80B; man I loved that desk, sounded nice and was easy to get around; was a busy room with the Welk Music group back then. Larry had all that great old tube stuff from Memphis.

I also remember a jingle session at Amy Grants place in Franklin TN and the “super beast” Trident A Range console. What an animal it was, you had to patch in everything in to get it to work, lol

The place that impressed most in the Nashville area was “The Castle” in Franklin. Built in an actual castle that once was owned by Al Capone, it was unreal. The SSL, Bosendorfer piano, the stone wall rooms, the hidden escape routes, outrageous studio.

I remember I went in as a "Second" in a studio on Music Row and the party going on was unreal. I forgot the name of the place, all I remember was all the walls were covered with Gold & Platinum Kansas albums, lost a lot of brain cells that night, lol

Nashville was a party town back then!

Sorry fellas, John asked about that place in Nashville and I had a flashback, Glory days!

 

[jhbrandt]

the space is actually the basement of a building which is under construction. the total length of this space is over 70': half for parking i.e about 32'. and the other half, we plan to divide into two parts: a jam room(about 11.5'). this is going to be isolated/ soundproofed. and a mixing room(we're left with about 22' here minus the restroom) the ceiling has already been built. and so is one of the side wall: this is a reinforced concrete running along the length of the space which also doubles as a retaining wall.

These kind of walls often provide good isolation due to their mass and situated on the earth provides damping for the floor slab, however flanking transmission is a concern. Impact noise will probably be the biggest offender in this situation and is easily remedied with appropriate padding under drums and other 'impact' type instruments. It would be wise to isolation any vibration source on resilient pads.

the width of the space is 16.4'(so the width cannot be more than this, it could be less since the other side wall hasn't been built) since the width is just 5m, if we were to use that as its length, wouldn't the room volume be too small? if this is an option plz suggest. i think this might avoid the problem of two different side walls(in which case: we could have two side walls made of bricks) and use the concrete wall as a rear wall.

If another wall must be constructed on the 16.4' side, I wouldn't count on much more than 16.08 feet... 193 inches for width.. or length for that matter. 193" X 173" X 96" isn't too bad. Just plan on a ton to trapping.. you HAVE to anyway in a concrete bunker. - Plan on losing about 10-12 inches all around the room perimeter.. the ceiling will have to be trapped down at least 8 inches.. 12 inches will get you to the bottom of the beam. Fully absorptive ceiling. - lightweight 'fluffy' fiberglass only, covered with fabric.
You are going to need membrane traps to treat below 120 Hz.

I only suggest this since there is nowhere to come & go except for the back wall of the CR. If you orient the CR so that it is sideways, you can have window into the tracking area.. and a door in the right position where it will not interfere with reflections and/or back wall treatment.

also, the biggest constraint of all is probably the height: 8' from floor to ceiling and 7' under the tie beam/column.
this makes it pretty hard to get a width and length big enough to fulfill the 2500cu.ft criteria using the ratios.

2500 cubic feet is a good room, I have always said that the smallest usable space is 1500 cubic feet for decent distribution with, of course, adequate treatment. (That means a really LOT of bass trapping). I think that you CAN get a decent room in there sideways. It won't be perfect as perfect starts with ceilings of at least 14', so we 'deal' with it.

i came across this set of dimensions: (8,15.20,21.12)' it doesnt fulfill the ratio criteria, also the width is almost twice the height. but it is more than 2500cu.ft.
plz tell me what you think?

Don't try to make a room 'fit' into a ratio criteria. They don't scale well anyway. But DO get the dimensions as good as you can so that you don't have 'built-in' issues.

could the boundary surface be of the same material even though the walls themselves are of different thicknesses and materials?? (the concrete wall is
atleast 3 to 4 times the width of a brick) ... please suggest other dimensions with better frequency response within those constraints. here where i am from, we don't have the concept of drywall, i don't know if bricks are better or worse.

When you get past about 59 kg/m2 or 12 lbs/ft2, you have enough density to have good STL below 20 Hz. So, one wall can be 24" thick foundation concrete and the other heavy brick with a cement render.. I doubt that you will have LF asymmetries.

most of the studios i have seen have very small control rooms and huge live rooms. how is this possible? shouldnt the main focus of volume be on control rooms?
i havent thought about where to place doors and windows. maybe somewhere in the front wall??

That's a very good question. Most of the studios that I have seen, visited, worked in, and built - all have LARGE control rooms. Yes, the main focus for a studio build should be an accurate control room since that is where all of the mix/production judgments will be made. The small ones that I have seen are only home studios for writers and such. - NOW, I don't want any flack for that statement, -- it is a fact of the physical properties of small enclosures... it is impossible to reproduce 20 Hz in a room that does not have ONE dimension of at LEAST about 38 feet.
I'm not saying that a talented engineer, I know MANY, can not mix or produce a magnificent product from such an inferior room, but I'm saying that the physics of the room prevent accurate reproduction. (Honestly, some of you people AMAZE me... and that is a compliment. I am not being sarcastic. - Truly amazing what some of you talented people can do!)

you mentioned about orienting listening position: what does this mean? arent the speakers supposed to fire down the length of the room?

Ideally, yes. Some do not and the treatment for the different orientations accommodate the proximity and position of the listener.

let's see, about myself. i am a musician. i play guitars and drums. and i record demos on my laptop using cubase. i am using a line6 hd 500 as interface.
i am planning to get professional studio monitors once i move in to the new place.

What monitors are you planning to buy?

and later on getting a mixer. for the acoustic treatment, i think we are going to add them a few at a time not everything at once depending on financial conditions. i hope it works
that way too. i am just starting out actually but if things work out maybe turn it into a professional studio. which is why it is so important that i get the room dimensions right.

I agree. Get the dimensions right and the work-flow organized. You don't want to feel boxed-in, and you want your work-flow to be efficient.

sorry if i could not make things clearer, my english is not very good.

You are doing great! Keeping asking questions.

Cheers,
John