stuck.

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osiris

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So I keep getting stuck after one or two verses. Anyone else have that problem? How do you push through it? Here's the latest example of that. Any suggestions would be appreciated...


Brick by brick he built these walls
With these hands he laid each stone
Raised a shelter from the dirt
in the only land he's ever known

(You know) he was a working man
tilled the earth with his own hands
and the only thing he ever had
a peice of earth and a place to stand


...my first attempt at a story song. I think what I'm trying to get at here is a kind of ethic and way of life that built this country- that maybe we're loosing. Something like that. Thanks.
 
The concept is inspiring - but try to distil a lyrical hook from that idea and maybe what you've already written down. Try to write a chorus first - then move onto verses, Mid8 etc.

Ch
We worked the land, now the dirt slips through our fingers
We were working once now all we dreamt is dust
The work we had defined each man and woman
Now we're broke and broken, and nothing works for us

Inspiration comes in many forms a story, a scene and it is right to let your imagination flow - but a songwriter to be successful must then apply some systematic approach to craft their inspiration.

I think what you are doing is thinking that the songs come to us whole in a perfect form and you see your two verses as a failure, when in actual fact it is just the first step.

Stick with it - it is a great concept
 
Whatmysay said:
I think what you are doing is thinking that the songs come to us whole in a perfect form and you see your two verses as a failure, when in actual fact it is just the first step.
Click to expand...

Best advice ever! ;) (You must spread some rep, etc.....)
 
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Not that Im any songsmith yet but I have had this problem as well and found to get through I just write thoughts I want to express , all kinds of non ryhming whatever pops in your head type thoughts and then I begin to pare down to the phrases I like best that stick close to or augment the theme Im working on
Then I try to form somthing lyricly pleasing , Im no expert at all but its working for me
I used to think that people wrote songs in one fell swoop but highly doubt it now
Cheers
 
First I think Whatmysay hit it on the head - rather than think your existing lyrics have stalled out, accept that you have a good start (and you do have a good start).

Having written over 200 songs and having researched the subject of songwriting to death (I'm obsessed with being the best writer I can possibly be) - I think it is very, very common that song writers have a very difficult time after the first or second verse.

It can be relatively easy to start a story - and often the first few lines, or even the first verse, can often write themselves. However, after that is when the actual skill and disipline of writing must take place.

In your case - you've started what could be a very potent story (showing you have story telling skill) - now you simply have to work on it.

In your case - perhaps the story could go on to tell how he came from a poor or dysfunctional childhood and worked hard to be the man he could be. Or, perhaps, he now has a lady love who he wants to build a future with, brick by brick (just like building his home). In fact, "Brick By Brick" could be a great title and a great hook in the chorus.
 
osiris said:
So I keep getting stuck after one or two verses. Anyone else have that problem? How do you push through it? Here's the latest example of that. Any suggestions would be appreciated...


Brick by brick he built these walls
With these hands he laid each stone
Raised a shelter from the dirt
in the only land he's ever known

(You know) he was a working man
tilled the earth with his own hands
and the only thing he ever had
a peice of earth and a place to stand


...my first attempt at a story song. I think what I'm trying to get at here is a kind of ethic and way of life that built this country- that maybe we're loosing. Something like that. Thanks.
Click to expand...

I sometimes plan out on paper a rough sketch of the song i.e. basic ideas for each verse and the chorus. One I wrote and shared with upfiddler started off with the basic concept of being in "God's hands." I then thought up three ways (most of my songs have 3 verses) that that could be taken. I then put them in order...first verse shows the person getting Baptised, second verse is when she leaves home and the parents give her to "God's Hands" and the third verse is shen she passes away and goes into God's Hands forever. Once I knew what it was I was wanting to say, it became merely a matter of figuring out how to say it in a consistant meter and rhyming scheme. Much like many computer programmers are taught to create a diagram for the program before they start programming or even how we're taught in high school to make an outline before creating the essay.

Granted, this doesn't work for everyone, nor does it work all the time, but it has worked for me at times.

Also, I keep a notebook and pen next to my bed...there's been many a time when, just as I'm about to fall asleep, I'll find myself making up a poem/song and have to rush to write it all down before I forget it...trying to remember the next morning is always stressful, and lots of times what I come up with isn't quite as satisfying as the night before.
 
When I get stuck I usually just force the next verses. Just as a placeholder while I work on the melody or practice the song with the band. As the song evolves sometimes the lyrics become obvious sometimes it's months before I re-write the forced parts sometimes it just happens. Sometimes I even end up keeping the forced verses and re-writing the ones that I thought were perfect at first.
 
osiris said:
(You know) he was a working man
tilled the earth with his own hands
and the only thing he ever had
a piece of earth and a place to stand
Click to expand...

I think this could be a good start for a chorus with the last line as your hook. A Place to Stand sounds like a wonderful song title.

Keep at it. :)
 
Totally typical for me. Most of my songs are either "story" songs based on Historical or Biblical events, or Hard Rock Anthems. (I'm always after that "Big Rock Anthem". I can't help it - when I was a kid, Kiss and Alice Cooper were my heroes, and what I loved about them were their Anthems. You know the kind of "It's Us against The World" song that unites the songwriter, singer, and listener.)


I'll have a verse or two and a chorus and I'll be stuck. I keep notebooks of these and later dates - I return to them and work on them.
Here is something that helps me.
I totally view Songwriting is a craft. You get better at it by doing it.
One of the things that I do is "frame or ""outline" a song. I write out a skeleton diagram of what I want then song to be about, then I start adding key words and phrases that I want to use.

Then I'll review all of that information before i ever write the song.
I rarely write songs as "inspired" where i sit down and it just flows out.

Here is an example of one that my Bass player and I wrote - he has been my best friend and songwriting partner for the last 20 years.

We played in a Christian Metal band, and wrote this song about Joseph saving the Israelites in Egypt.
This particular song has two verses and... I guess you could call it an extended bridge. We had the music written already, and we simply decided against utilizing a chorus in this song because we liked the song's musical structure as it was.
As a Christian band, our idea was to be able to take each line or concept back to a Biblical verse....so it's like retelling Bible stories in our own words.
You can take this song, and literally go through the Old Testament scripture about Joseph and there is a Biblical quote for every line in this song. I'm not claiming it's a great song, but it was one of my personal favorites that we have written.


The sun, and moon, and stars obeyed,
beloved son of Jacob's old age.
Bearing the coat his father made,
standing strong - our colors displayed.

Twelve bundled sheaves of straw
alone he stands as his brethren fall.
Rebuked by his father and abased by his kin,
destroying his raiment to cover their sin.
Provoked by anger toward this dreamer of dreams,
conspired to murder among their villainous schemes.
Thrown in a pit, then sold as a slave;
exalted in Egypt as the son who can save.


The gathered clans in Egyptian sands,
through Joseph - his brethren were fed.
The Birthright passed through Jacob's hands,
crossed upon his grandson's heads.


©1998 Carroll-Brown Music.



Here is the audio for it. You should be able to stream it.




It's a rough arranging/songwriting demo, and this was before I took any vocal lessons - actually, this is what inspired me to seek out vocal instruction. We had this song up on "mp3 DOT com" in 2000 and were were the #1 Power Metal band in North America for over 4 months with this recording. We beat out tons of top selling metal acts, so the song was good enough to attract a fairly regular stream of listeners.


Now that Mick has moved back into town after being gone for 4 years (and now I've got 4 years of vocal training under my belt) we are going to record all this material in the not too distant future - hopefully this time, we'll actually be able to find a guitarist that can play, rather than a kid who only likes punk rock and can't really play.... and perhaps I can get Mick to not use overdrive on his bass guitar this time. :D

I was fairly happy with the sound of my drums and playing on this, though.:p

Tim
 
jdblessing1970 said:
I sometimes plan out on paper a rough sketch of the song i.e. basic ideas for each verse and the chorus. One I wrote and shared with upfiddler started off with the basic concept of being in "God's hands." I then thought up three ways (most of my songs have 3 verses) that that could be taken. I then put them in order...first verse shows the person getting Baptised, second verse is when she leaves home and the parents give her to "God's Hands" and the third verse is shen she passes away and goes into God's Hands forever. Once I knew what it was I was wanting to say, it became merely a matter of figuring out how to say it in a consistant meter and rhyming scheme. Much like many computer programmers are taught to create a diagram for the program before they start programming or even how we're taught in high school to make an outline before creating the essay.

Granted, this doesn't work for everyone, nor does it work all the time, but it has worked for me at times.

Also, I keep a notebook and pen next to my bed...there's been many a time when, just as I'm about to fall asleep, I'll find myself making up a poem/song and have to rush to write it all down before I forget it...trying to remember the next morning is always stressful, and lots of times what I come up with isn't quite as satisfying as the night before.
Click to expand...


Exactly what I do. Rep points coming your way!


Tim
 
Resurecting this thread....
I made some progress on this song, although its been a slow process I think its getting somewhere.

Brick by brick he built these walls
With these hands he laid each stone
Raised a shelter from the earth
in the only country he has known

(Chorus)
All that he had
Was a place to stand
the strength it takes just to be a man
after all whats it worth
just a clump of dirt
a piece of earth in his hands

Things aren't what they use to be
use to be a man was free
well there aint no freedom anymore
just the fear of endless war

(Chorus)
All that he had
Was a place to stand
the strength it takes just to be a man
after all whats it worth
just a clump of dirt
a piece of earth in his hands

and we hold in our hands
the thing that built this land
its all weve ever had
a piece of earth a place to stand
(refrain) a piece of earth a place to stand...

(Chorus)
All that he had
Was a place to stand
the strength it takes just to be a man
after all whats it worth
just a clump of dirt
a piece of earth in his hands

So its not done. I thing the second and third verses are kind of weak- but they get across the general idea I'm trying to communicate. I'm not sure about the refrain at the end of the third verse since it borrows phrases from the chorus- but I wanted to break away into some kind of short bridge or something.

The 'aha' moment was when I completely changed the chord progression and the meter from 4/4 to 6/8

Any ideas or suggestions are welcome!
 
I don't plan songs out, I don't think much about them....A title comes into my head, I write the lyrics...and i'm done in 30mins.

I annoy my friends as it just seems to come easy to me, but then again I'm nowhere near as good on guitar as I want and that comes easier to other people....it appears I have more creativity then techinical ability.

If a song doesn't come straight away usually it's not as good as one that I can finish on the same day I started it.
 
Sometimes enough is enough

A song can be short and sweet saying your message and that's all. I once wrote a short song about writing songs.

I just can't say... why I do the things I do (2x)(guitar interlude between reps)
It's because... there is no cause at all... (2x)
It's a compulsion... (very lush C#Maj7b5 to break)

By the time I fleshed it out with instrumental passages it was 4:20.
 
Hymn to Osiris

I stole these lyrics from "Sirius Mystery" a book by Robert Temple. They were originally from a book on Egyptology by Wallis Budge and are a translation of hieroglyphics from the 18th dynasty of Egypt around the time of Ankhanaten. I added Robert Temples interpretation of the lyric that Sirius is the home of Isis and Osiris and the Dogon belief that Sirius has a dark companion to create a bridge.

The stars which never diminish
are under the thrones of his face
His thrones are
The stars which never rest

Stars of Sirius
are stars which never rest
Stars of Sirius
Is the dogged star
 
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