Starving Artists Gettin Robbed All Day

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gullyjewelz

gullyjewelz

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Any one "pay 2 play" ? That is, paying a promoter to let you get on stage? I keep running into globs upon globs of these types of promoters and club venues . . some fees are not as pungent to the pocket . . like $10 -$30 bucks . . but others are like . . financial rape . . $400 - $500 and you can open up for " " [feel free to insert any popular artist on the radio station today . . .

I can't see how its worth it . but I can't see how this keeps getting offered and people keep doing it . . am I missing something? Is this just one of those "paying your dues" type thing?
 
The most common, and pretty well considered, opinion here is that Pay-To-Play is a major rip off. I agree- I have lead bands that I refused to allow to play even for free. Well, not a complete ban- I allowed each band member to choose one fund raiser each year, which got a free show from us. If it would have been a club, there would have had to be a STRONG personal connection.

If you consider yourself an artist and a professional, paying to perform is total anathema to both. The ONLY exception I can imagine is an open mic at a VERY well established venue, like Eddie's Attic in Decatur, GA.
 
You have to give some credit here. No one is forcing bands to do it. If you don't wanna pay, simply don't pay.
I am amazed at just how many established bands are in my crappy neck of the woods. Hundreds. Most will never play a paying gig. Some a free gig. Seems like if they want to play-they gotta pay.
The promoter or club is just exersizing their entrepenureal skills and trying to make (or steal if you will) a buck.
I was in a 20+ year classic rock band with great songs and killer vocals. I quit because in the last 2 years, clubs refused to pay more than $250. A duo might be ok with that but we were a 5 piece!

The industry is truly in shambles and these kids still think that if they can just get their music heard, they will make it. Sad. So sad.
But hey, if they all have fun and no one gets hurt--why not pay to play???
 
Any band that pays to play needs to have their gear stolen and their heads bashed in. Playing live sucks these days, and shit like this is part of the reason why.
 
Here's a repost from the facebook thread:

It's fucking pointless to be in a band nowadays. The bands have no power in any situation. All the power lies with the clubs/promoters. You don't like your set cut and half so they can squeeze one more band on the bill? Tough shit. There's ten million bands that'll gladly cut their set in half to play in front of 5 people. I chalk that up to too many bands now and too many bands that totally suck. Clubs used to beg for bands to play. Now it's totally reversed. Bands are expendable and treated that way.
 
Gigging is like golfing.

If you suck, you must pay to play. If you're great, they pay you.
Greg is right if the band is trying to make it. But if your just out to share some music and have a good time.....:drunk:
 
matttheaxe said:
But if your just out to share some music and have a good time.....:drunk:
Click to expand...

You still shouldn't have to pay. This pay-to-play selling tickets shit is a relatively new occurance. It's just one more the club owners and promoters have taken the power away from the bands.
 
I do admit, when I first started out, I payed for a couple time slots. However, a few months into it, I get paid to play. When dealing with venues, you are the boss. Your bringing in a fan base into their venue, and should take the door, whilst they may have the bar. Thats if your doing small gigs. Larger events, you definitely need to pay. Things like Super Pages Center will cost you in the thousands to host events there. BUT You should be able to walk into House Of Blues, and demand a day for an event. However, you must keep your end of the bargain or clubs & venues will no longer book you ie filling the venue up. This year, our biggest shows are the 104.5 & 97.9 Custom Car Show & Concerts, both held at real nice spots (Dallas Convention Center/***** Live Center). Both will host attendances of 3-5k easily. Both also host major acts. Everyone here in Dallas knows we are a part of something, and if we're not, it's not worth it to them to come ;) lol.
 
Most of my gigs are actually pay to play but only if by that you mean I play at an open mic and pay for a beer while I'm there. :D
 
We had a ticket sales gig like that last month. I think the band ended up grossing about 50 bucks, and put about ten times that in the promotor's pocket. We were one short on online sales to double our split. That's not gonna happen again anytime soon, if ever.

I have, however been putting together shows where we play for the door. 3 or 4 bands. I give them all 20 tickets (nominally to be sold for five bucks, same as the cover) as a sort of a $100 guarantee, then we all split the door equally. They can do what they want with the advance tickets, sell them or give them away, it's thier choice. Seems to be working out OK so far.

It almost seems like the best money is being made on merch. sales at live shows nowadays. Shirts, CDs, bumper stickers, shit like that.
 
I payed to play way back in the 70s and 80s in the Boston/Cambridge area and it wasn't profitable then either!
I think the Rat started it first on Haymarket SQ., then the craze went around town, then it seemed to drop off due to no one participating.
So the best thing to do is to hibernate for a while and tell the promoters NO we will not pay to play.

A friend of mine in Washington state just told me that you can't even get into a pay to play unless you purchase 50 tickets (minimum) at $10. each! what is rip off!!!! What is this world coming to?






:cool:
 
I don't pay to play. PERIOD. And I don't see where it is needed.

An example of it not being needed: Pine Lake, GA does an October fest every year. Little bitty town, 600 or so voting citizens. They charge art and food venders to setup, which they presumably recoup from art or food sales (and they do alright, I've talked to several of them.) The money is split among the bands who play and the sound man (that has been me for the last 5 years, but not this year.) Last year, every band got a guarantee, and although I can't recal how much, it was not too bad for a couple hours' work.

As I said, this has been going on for at least 5 years. Several acts return the next year. The festival is growing. Everybody wins.

Pay to play? FUCK that.
 
The reason why I think pay2play came into existance is because there are more bands than there are clubs to play in, and bands want to play clubs to build a following, and the club owners saw an opportunity to line their pockets.

No different than anything else... "Gee, I can make a buck off this."

A lifelong friend of mine owns a bar in New York and there's not a day where "a guy" walks in with a portfolio of professionally done pictures of his band and a demo CD with 1-5 songs on it, trying to get a gig at my friend's bar. Mostly, he turns them away because he has an already existing lineup of local bands that draw a nice crowd, crowds drink, and that drinking makes my friend money.

My friend gauges how "good" a band is not by the music they play, or how talented they are, but rather by the increase in alcohol sales and the resulting profitability of that band playing, instead of a different band or no band at all.

In fact, he ties what he pays these bands based on a whole slew of historical statistics - so "good" bands that draw a huge crowd, get paid more than "not good" bands that don't draw that big of a crowd. Bands that have a big draw might get a grand for the night, bands that suck get a few nickels and don't get called back.

Kind of a commission if you will, tying pay to performance.
 
Well duh. Everyone knows that alcohol sales is all that matters to club owners. No club owner or promoter is actually interested in helping to promote some shmoe garage band's career.

But still, making a band pay to play isn't gonna boost the sales of booze. Any band dumb enough to actually go along with this nonsense probably has no fanbase anyway.
 
Well Duh, I'm not disagreeing with you lol.

Just sharing how my friend pays the bands that play in his bar. They get a piece of the evening's take, which I think is pretty cool. Far better opportunity but also with more risk.
 
The whole thing pisses me off, as an artist. But as one with a bit of an entrepreneurial bent, it . . facsicnates me. It motivates me. I am considering opening up a little venue and making a go at this myself - but I want to do it where the so-called "pay to play" actually WORKS in the performer and in the venue's favor. I just hate the rip offs and I generally choose NOT to participate - I see so many people, soloists, groups, super-groups, all jumping at the bit to do it . .
--------------smh
 
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