Sonic Maximizers

[sucram]

This is true.

If they were so concerned about the sound quality, then they wouldn't compress the bejesus out of everything either.

you mean like every other pop album out there these days? so does that mean that mastering facilities don't care either? bejesus compression has its place in audio, just like ssl, just like behringer.

i think blue bear's last comment is a good assessment, to use what works for you. that's as fundamental as it gets, since nobody else on this board has your ears or your vision. things would be a bit less contentious if people qualified the statement, "it sucks" with "it sucks if you're using it as a crutch to cover up bad technique." certainly the best way to a good track is to get it done right from the start. that being said, sometimes you need to fix things after the fact, and if a maximizer is the tool for the job, so be it. here's my question. are people just as critical about the SPL and Aphex and Peavey maximizers, or is BBE the behringer in this field?

for what it's worth, i've got a BBE on my bookshelf system. i keep it set to level 1 out of 3 because i just like the sound more. it's cleaner when i a/b it with it on and off. higher than 1 starts sounding too slick, lower than 1 sounds a bit dull. if i'm adding distortion, so be it. why would i want to listen to something that's perhaps more pure when i could listen to something that's more pleasing? use it with caution, and bypass it frequently to make sure you're still where you want to be. i've considered getting the plug in for effect use myself, but haven't gone that far yet.

good luck,
marcus

 

[Bartman]

If.....

If you installed a Sonic Maximizer on a jet engine....would it help you break the sound barrier?

I say, if you like the sound of it, use it. If not, don't.

Maximixers, Mix-Citers, apple-Ciders, etc....sound louder and more brittle to me.....though maybe the people I know that use them are using them wrong.

Who F'in knows?

Bart

 

[Toker41]

If it were installed in Windows, I wonder if it would make peoples advice sound better?

 

[Stefan Elmblad]

On Gearslutz Mike Shipley was guest mod for a month and someone asked him about the clean guitar sounds on "Hysteria". He said the secret was a Tom Scholtz Rockman although it was modified. I swear it seemed like a ton of guys were acting like it was time run out to get one and he begged them..."don't buy it...it's crap!". It was sort of funny, he made it work for one unique sound and even had to get it modified at that...but I bet eBay had a ton of searches that day...

Gear, gotta love it.

War

The hysteria album is #1 on my worst over-produced shit-list. I'm not surprised they used rockmans. They made all the mistakes there is to be made, and all bad judgement calls there ever can be on that album. YMMV

 

[xfinsterx]

Oh my, thats total bullshit.

They don't know how to use it.
The paid too much for it.

With all due respect it is clear that you are a pompous ass.

I have heard good results from a BBE in a rack that needed a little spice... The key is.. Learn how to use it.. That means how much and when.

Dude youve gotta be fuckin kidding?!
Man look, post up a recording youve done with the bbe and ill evaluate that shit for myself, until then Dont condescend about how to use a a fucking bbe! . Look, ill tell you how to use one, ok?
Unrack it walk outside and throw it in the trash....Look! its a garbage can filler now!

Just like with guitars.... Someone will ask is a Squire ok? Typical answer will be.. Squire suck! Nothing good about a Squire!

Put that fucking squire in the hands of a Danny Gatton!

Ok bud thats gotta be the most Full Blown Bullshit Analogy Ive heard here on these boards.
A guitar vs. the BBe?!

Guitar playing is 90% concerning the level of the player and 10% the instrument.

So what are you saying? That if this place had more "Experienced BBE users we could all be like Steve Albini?!"

Dude....GO HOME

 

[FALKEN]

So what are you saying? That if this place had more "Experienced BBE users we could all be like Steve Albini?!"

I think he is saying that if Steve Albini used a BBE he would make it rawk.

 

[Toker41]

The hysteria album is #1 on my worst over-produced shit-list. I'm not surprised they used rockmans. They made all the mistakes there is to be made, and all bad judgement calls there ever can be on that album. YMMV

Funny, I believe the best Leppard album was the first one "On Through the Night". The album was raw and well produced. They were a rock band. Yet they claim they are embarassed by it, and never play any song from it live. "Wasted", to this day remains on one of my fav songs list when it comes to playing covers.

One of my early bands recorded with Rockmans (I was very young and it was about 19 years ago). Sounded like a heavy metal Boston. Wasn't good. We did it at the advice of the "producer/studio owner". By the end of the sessions I realized his advice was based around the shortest time to get the songs done to increase his profit. We paid per song, instead of by the hour. There is not much you can do to a Rockman to get rid of the "Boston sound". They are pretty much a toy. I can't really think of how you could mod it except to make it NOT a Rockman. Funny thing about the Boston albums, no matter how much you turn them up, it just never gets loud. To bring us back to subject...Tom could have used a BBE on those Rockmans.

 

[Seeker of Rock]

I scored some Wharfedale speakers recently (stereo mains, not monitors)....I'm wondering if my Behringer may find a new home. Oh crap, that's right....I need to get better at recording first. Anyway, when I do, A Behri "pyscoacoustic processor" will be up for grabls. Better deal than Massive...bidding will start at $35. Maybe, I kind of like the idea of using it for my Home entertainment. Hmmmm.

 

[Farview]

...Tom could have used a BBE on those Rockmans.

He was too busy using an Aphex aural exciter, a predecessor to the BBE.

 

[Massive Master]

I believe the best Leppard album was the first one - "On Through the Night".

Word. Pete Willis was my f**kin' idol.

Phil Collen?!? Puh-lease...

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to feeling really old...

 

[chessrock]

I love when a bunch of armatures with delusions of grander start yelling "IT'S CRAP" without any real understanding of the product, or when they only tried it for one application...or really have no idea what it does, or how to use it properly. They don't say "I didn't like it", no...they claim "it's crap because I didn't like it". bla bla bla bla These kind of people can usally have very limited verbal command and use phrases like "it sucks", yet can't explain in any detail what it does that they didn't like ...

Okay, how's this, then?

I tried out a BBE Sonic Maximizer on various settings and in various tracking and mixing situations.

After repeated a/b listening tests, I discovered an unusual phenomenon: Every time the BBE was in the "on" position -- i.e. fully engaged and processing said audio -- I would notice this strange red liquid resembling blood coming out of my ears.

After various hearing tests, it was concluded by a professional ear practitioner that I was losing up to 10% of my high-frequency hearing sensitivity for every 1/2 hour of listening to material of any kind through the BBE. Other unusual side-effects included severe headache, coupled with an intense and overwhelming desire to leave the room and vomit. Along with an irresistable urge to yell: "This sounds like shit!"

 

[scottboyher]

The Maximizers are kind of like an Eq for me.. It usually does more harm than good.. LOL

 

[Farview]

BTW If all speakers need the same processing to fix the inherent phase shift, why is there a knob instead of a switch. It would seem to me that if the phase shift of all loudspeakers were remarkably similar, the amout of processing would be similar as well. Therefore an on/off switch would make more sense.
What about the low contour knob? That clearly takes away lower mids and adds upper lows. I would imagine that it does that by shifting the phase as well, but that is how an EQ works as well.
After spending most of my professional life talking guitar players into taking one of these things OUT of their rig, I can tell you that every one of them, (yes, every single one of them) has thanked me for it. They say they couldn't believe that they ever thought thier old sound was good. The BBE is like crack for your ear, you turn it on and you think it sounds better but it is really numbing your ears to the upper mids. That is why when you turn it off, your rig sounds dull. It didn't sound dull last week before you bought the BBE, but now, all of a sudden, it does. It is the sound equivelent of an optical illusion.

 

[chessrock]

BTW If all speakers need the same processing to fix the inherent phase shift, why is there a knob instead of a switch.

Exactly. And why don't manufacturers just make better speakers? Better yet, why doesn't the consumer just stop buying crappy speakers in the first place, rather than try to fix them with a piece of rack gear.

I would imagine that it does that by shifting the phase as well, but that is how an EQ works as well.

Ding ding ding!

The BBE is like crack for your ear, you turn it on and you think it sounds better but it is really numbing your ears to the upper mids. That is why when you turn it off, your rig sounds dull. It didn't sound dull last week before you bought the BBE, but now, all of a sudden, it does. It is the sound equivelent of an optical illusion.

That's an excellent way of putting it.

Here's a story for ya: There's a music shop down the street from me, staffed mostly by live sound guys and gigging musicians. For a while there, every time I would go in, they would be playing this god-awful sounding music at the store.

One day, I just went up to one of the guys and said: "What do you have that music running through? Whatever it is, it's hurting my ears. Turn it off."

So he walks me down to the mini PA where the music is pumping out of, and sure enough ... there it was. The BBE. I looked at the guy and told him flat-out : "You need to turn this thing off. It's .... offensive."

Dude looks at me funny and says: "No. That's what makes it sound good." I swear it was like I was talking to a junk addict. These poor guys are probably working full 8 hour days listening to this stuff constantly. After doing live sound, I imagine, the night before. And they don't know that it sounds like utter ass. They have no concept that they've lost all hearing perspective.

It's really very, very sad when you think about it. And it even pains me more when I realize this is one of the reasons I can't stand to sit through a live show around my city (Chicago) any more. And I love football, but I'm sure there's a reason I can't stand watching NFL films, either. Just because something is popular and used a lot doesn't mean it's good.

 

[Sir Dingo]

Just because something is popular and used a lot doesn't mean it's good.

Hey! Since when does Pro Tools have anything to do with BBE??

 

[Toker41]

"...you think it sounds good..."

What the hell does that mean? Either it sounds good or it doesn't! If you think it sounds good, then it sounds good.

"...just because it's popular doesn't mean it's good..."

Yup, tons of major studios spend money of crap just because everybody has one. Makes perfect business sense. Good luck with yours.


It's not right for everything, but it has it's place. It's on more CD's that you own than you realize. I've seen them in just about every major studio I've been to in the last 20 years. I have seen them in the racks of sound equipment for a lot of major acts. Just because some people don't like it, or don't know how to use it, doesn't make it crap....it makes it "not for everyone".

 

[HangDawg]

"...you think it sounds good..."

What the hell does that mean? Either it sounds good or it doesn't! If you think it sounds good, then it sounds good.

"...just because it's popular doesn't mean it's good..."

Yup, tons of major studios spend money of crap just because everybody has one. Makes perfect business sense. Good luck with yours.


It's not right for everything, but it has it's place. It's on more CD's that you own than you realize. I've seen them in just about every major studio I've been to in the last 20 years. I have seen them in the racks of sound equipment for a lot of major acts. Just because some people don't like it, or don't know how to use it, doesn't make it crap....it makes it "not for everyone".

Did you use the BBE on the tunes from your NWR page? They seem to have that brittle rip yer face off high end that signifies over use of the sonic maximizeraztionismsnizzler. And guess what, it's not very pleasant.

 

[chessrock]

I've seen them in just about every major studio I've been to in the last 20 years.

I have no idea what studios you're hangin' at, but as part of my job, I've visited a ton of studios, and have yet to see one of those pieces of crap anywhere ... other than as a joke piece.

Yup, tons of major studios spend money of crap just because everybody has one. Makes perfect business sense. Good luck with yours.

I have seen a ton of NS-10 monitors at the studios I've visited, and even the studio managers pretty much agree they're basically crap. And these are perfectly sensible business people. Some of them.

So yea, in a way, you are right. Some of these studios actually do purposely and knowingly have stuff around that they believe to be crap. Let 'em. They can afford to if they want.

 

[studiowebx]

Well I am an old timer here but I will tell you that Toker41 isn't completely off. I spent the last 20 years picking around Nashville. I have been in nearly every one in and around town. Mostly sweeping the floor, but I was there.

I used to drool over some of the equipment in these studios and in about 80% of them I would see the BBE. Whether they used them or not, I don't know.

I have seen allot of what you "pros" here would call crap in these studios.

I am amazed at the few on here that call themselves a "pro" with a straight face. You make an old man laugh.

 

[chessrock]

I have been in nearly every one in and around town. Mostly sweeping the floor, but I was there.

... I have seen allot of what you "pros" here would call crap in these studios.

I am amazed at the few on here that call themselves a "pro" with a straight face. You make an old man laugh.

Maybe some of these guys laugh at being criticized by someone who's only recording experience after 20 years is with a broom.

You got any recordings of you sweepin' that broom around?

I didn't realize being head janitor bestowed such lofty recording credentials.