Some of you are NOT going to like hearing about this...

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sonusman

sonusman

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Was hired to mix a show last night. Three bands, one country, one traditional Mexican music, and one Rockabilly. Needless to say, and interesting mix. The promoter likes to put together what he calls "roots music" shows, and he seems to do a pretty good job at it.

Anyway, I forgot to pick up the Countryman DI at the studio when I was grabbing mics, and last night, EVERY bass player need a intrument level to line level interface to get to the console. In my rack, I had my ART Dual MP, and it was going to have to do. I have never used it for Bass DI in a live situation, and wasn't really sure what was going to happen. But, it was ALL that I could do, so away I went.

I have used just about every kind of DI box that is available (okay, there is a whole slew of little known, boutique DI boxes out their I haven't tried, and there are some like the Avalon U5 that are just WAY to spendy to consider for "club work"....). I have used the ProCo, and Jensen transformers, and I am sure a few others.

My impression of the ART as a Bass DI?

GIVE ME TWO PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

I recieved nothing but GREAT comments from the other bands while they were listening to each other out front about how killer the bass sounded. This comment came from EVERY bass player about the other two they heard. I have to admit, in this room, and with this PA, getting a full sounding, controlled, articulate bass sound if very hard. It is an old Masonic Temple auditorium, and the room is VERY reverberant, with a distinct 800Hz spike in it! ouch.....:( Anyway, I have mixed the room several times, and it was always hard with the console preamps and any number of DI's to get a bass sound that was full, yet didn't crowd other instruments in the mix.

I didn't have anything close to those kinds of problems last night! I am quite happy to say that the ART offered a DISTINCT bass tone for every player. For two of the acts, the input to the ART was coming from Line Out on their amps (these are post eq, and post gain...) and one of the dudes ran direct (the tranditional mexican music band...no amps....:)). In each case though, I ran the ART directly to the Line In on the older Allen and Heath console, and had a Behringer Composer (old style...I LOVE my old style Composer....) inserted on the channel.

Damn. I am still impressed with how well the Bass guitar sounded last night. Frankly, I just didn't think the ART would perform that well, or would be any better than the consoles preamps. But it DID perform well, and sounded MUCH better than the consoles preamps, or any number of active/passive DI boxes I have used there in the past.

I think me's going to take the MP everywhere I mix now and use it as a DI. A ART Dual MP, with it's two channels, is not that much more than buying two DI boxes with Jensen transformers in it, and certainly, the gain stages I think really help. I have used the Dual MP in the past on vocals, bypassing the consoles preamps and was astounded at the rusults, but I had never tried it on bass. So, I am indeed happy that my good ol' ART preamp, a box I have endorsed in the past, and have claimed is right up there with some Class A preamps, has found yet a new role in LIVE work too.

Ed
 
Ed, you found out MY secret. :) I actually use the TubePAC, with the compressor, that seems to only sound good on bass. But I have gotten comment after comment about the good bass sound it gets,

H2H
 
Yo Ed:

I've still got my ART dual hooked up in my studio as it was part of the MD8 system. It's a pretty good box and it was nice to hear how well it worked for you.

Now that I'm using the Yam 2816, I haven't used the ART as the mic pres on the Yam are pretty good. And, the 16 and 24 bit sound on the box is far better than the MD8, which, of course you already know.

Happy St. Patrick's Day
Green Hornet:D :D :p :p
 
I don't have a bass amp, so I only have two choices for recording my bass - my POD (guitar) or my ART Dual MP. When I first got the POD I used it exclusively for a while but lately I've gone back to using the ART. I finally decided the bass going through the POD sounded kind of thin (at least with the Tube Preamp and the Line6Clean amp settings I was using). Then I'd spend time tweaking that track to get it to sound fuller. I'm not doing that anymore with the ART, other than applying enough compression to level out my lousy technique. :D Actually, I've starting leaving the ART permanently powered on so maybe keeping it warmed up all the time is helping contribute to the better sound I'm getting out of it.

Preferring the ART with the limited choices I have is one thing, but it's interesting to hear you say you like it that much. Doesn't make me feel bad at all!
 
Those who have been around here for some time know it is no secret that I REALLY like my ART Dual MP, and the Pro MP that is at the studio. I use them on MANY tracks, and in a lot of cases, prefer it over many class A preamps! The studio has a Focusrite Red, a Drawmer 1960, and an ORAM MWS pre's, along with the ART Pro. We find MANY situations where the ART just kicks the others ass all over the place. The ProMP at roughly 1/4-1/5 the price is very impressive indeed!

I have heard complaints about them in the past, but usually not from people who have posted stuff I have heard that actually sounded pretty good....:) I have heard a lot of complaints about the ART, then went and listened to the doods mp3's where they used their yucky Mackies, Joe Meeks, etc.... and just has to snicker. I have had to learn to accept that some people just don't hear a good sound that works in recording when it slaps them right in the face....:D

Anyway. In the budget range, the ART MP is still in my opinion the best "bang for the buck". If you don't agree, cool.

Soonest I get my poop in a group and spend the time to upload again, I will have a whole slew of mp3's up that used almost EXCLUSIVELY the ART Dual MP as the preamp for the tracking onto 16 bit Type I ADAT's, and some of this stuff rivals what you would expect out of a $3000 a day studio. Would this stuff sounded a bit better with class A pre's instead of the ART? Possibly, but I doubt MUCH better, and certainly not enough better to justify the added price!

Ed
 
I have to second the ART TubPac for bass. I tried for years to get a decent recorded bass tone until I stuck an ART TubPac after the SansAmp and instant fat bass tone. I have not tried it live as I have loved my SWR for live work and have not messed with it since.

I don't care if it is "faux" tube it sounds good to my ears and in my budget although I would not A/Bing it with an Avalon someday.....................dream on as the song says.
 
BTW, the pro MPA is now $350 at MF. Down from around $440 elsewhere. Thats 2 channels of pro ART mic pre.

I think the pro ARTs are passed over in favor of other units bec alot of people start their mic pre careers with the tube mp and feel like theyve graduated from art when they look for another pre. Its like the intro course for pres. Meanwhile the pro ARTs are much cooler than the tube MPs and at $350 theres no other 2 channel ~tube~ pre that comes close.
 
You should try the Levelar. Its even better and a compresser as well.
 
sonusman said:

Soonest I get my poop in a group and spend the time to upload again, I will have a whole slew of mp3's up that used almost EXCLUSIVELY the ART Dual MP as the preamp for the tracking onto 16 bit Type I ADAT's, and some of this stuff rivals what you would expect out of a $3000 a day studio. Would this stuff sounded a bit better with class A pre's instead of the ART? Possibly, but I doubt MUCH better, and certainly not enough better to justify the added price!

Ed
Click to expand...

But I bet a $3000/day studio has something better to record on than a 16 bit ADAT...;)
 
Well smarty pants, we will just have to see eh? ;) A lot of hit CD's were recorded on ADAT's by engineers that had some kind of clue as to how to record to digital. They were actually pretty decent machines when interfaced to a decent analog console.

Ed
 
and the answer is.....
sonusman said:
A lot of hit CD's were recorded on ADAT's [type I, 16 bit] by engineers that had some kind of clue as to how to record to digital.
Click to expand...
damn...I wish some people would understand this.
(however, I'd be a tad upset if I booked some session time, at the aforementioned rate, and that was their recording medium.)

;)
 
That is a shame then, because I feel the recording machine ranks fairly low in the audio food chain. At a certain point, the machine is more about asthetics in the sound, rather than a major improvement/detriment to it.

Great rooms. Great mics. Great pre's. A GREAT ENGINEER is usually what makes a studio worth $3k a day.

But all are free to think what they think. I personally could give a rats ass what the format is. If I hear a good room, see good mics and pre's, I can make it sound good on cassette! You know what I mean? ;)

Ed
 
sonusman said:
You know what I mean? ;)

Ed
Click to expand...

Yeah I do...and I agree 110%...but I'd still be upset....I'm kinda a moody person anyway....lead gtr player...ya know....

No...kidding aside, you're absolutely correct.

"Great rooms. Great mics. Great pre's. A GREAT ENGINEER is usually what makes a studio worth $3k a day." <---there's nothing wrong about that stmnt. ...and I'd really emphasize the room and the engineer, in which you did.
But....a 'hit' with bad tape hiss....bummer, dude
:p ...and I don't care what Springsteen did!

But....think about it....wouldn't a kick ass engineer probably say, "cart those blackfaces outta here...bring me a real tape machine."...especially if he had ALL the other ingredients? If he didn't I would. But then...that would probably be about when I get slapped.
 
sonus man you're right.

id say one of the major deals with a pricing of a studio is the room.

if i get hired out to produce, and we want to use a diffeent studio, before looking at equipment, i look at rooms. becuase, at the end of the day, i can always bring like a pro tools rig or something to the studio if i dont like the units. i know this isn't exactly what you were saying before, but im just trying to say that the room is a big factor (usually) in pricing.
 
Darrin mentioned the Levelar. Tube MP->Levelar is a great direct bass sound.
 
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