Solid State / Modeler / Tube shootout!

[cactuseskimo]

1 is tube
2 is modeller
3 is solid state

I have to confer. You can almost hear the "plastic" in sound sample # 2.

The biggest hint to which is tube and SS is the chord that rings out at the end of the sample. Listen to it, and it becomes obvious to me. #1 is tube, # 3 is SS, and they both sound WAY better than modelling!

Now I hope I'm right and haven't made an ass of myself.

 

[amra]

Well, maybe ass was a harsh word, but compared what what the V-AMP can sound like, it sounded real thin, man.

Modelers already tend to be fizzy and harsh on the treble end /presence- this is their weak spot. The last thing in the world you want to do is boost that -if you want it to sound realistic at least. Truly, I expect the tube amp to sound better than the V-AMP - but in subtle ways, it just seemed like you tried to make it obvious, especially since it had effects on it and everything.

 

[cactuseskimo]

I have to confer. You can almost hear the "plastic" in sound sample # 2.

The biggest hint to which is tube and SS is the chord that rings out at the end of the sample. Listen to it, and it becomes obvious to me. #1 is tube, # 3 is SS, and they both sound WAY better than modelling!

Now I hope I'm right and haven't made an ass of myself.

Damn, just read down and found out I was wrong about the SS//modeller. That modeller sounds decent, but I still preferred the tube myself. More of a complex sound.

Now, heavey tones are one things, but try a crunch vox tone or fender tone on the edge of breakup, and that is where you will start to see the BIG differences between digital and tube IMO.

 

[metalhead28]

it just seemed like you tried to make it obvious, especially since it had effects on it and everything.

There were no effects on anything. I'm not sure what you're getting at there. On the amps it was just the amp, a cab and some SM57's. What you hear is what the amps sound like. And when I recorded the V-amp pro it was just distortion. No other effects. No reverb, no nothing. What do you mean by "effects"?

 

[jonnyc]

There were no effects on anything. I'm not sure what you're getting at there. On the amps it was just the amp, a cab and some SM57's. What you hear is what the amps sound like. And when I recorded the V-amp pro it was just distortion. No other effects. No reverb, no nothing. What do you mean by "effects"?

I think he's just pissed because he realized his V-amp doesn't sound like a tube amp. Doesn't seem like he's interested in anything but debunking your test.

 

[amra]

I think he's just pissed because he realized his V-amp doesn't sound like a tube amp. Doesn't seem like he's interested in anything but debunking your test.

Yea, I was afraid it would come off that way. Like I said, I truly expect ANY modeler to lose against a tube amp, and rightly so. But I just think they are alot closer and more useful than most people believe, especially in the home recording arena. I have 2 tube amps, a solid state AND a modeler and I still feel this way.

Metalhead, about the effects, the V-AMP clip just sounded (on the palm mutes) like it had a slight reverb or delay or something going on - thats what i was talking about.

 

[metalhead28]

Yea, I was afraid it would come off that way. Like I said, I truly expect ANY modeler to lose against a tube amp, and rightly so. But I just think they are alot closer and more useful than most people believe, especially in the home recording arena. I have 2 tube amps, a solid state AND a modeler and I still feel this way.

Metalhead, about the effects, the V-AMP clip just sounded (on the palm mutes) like it had a slight reverb or delay or something going on - thats what i was talking about.

Well, I must reiterate that I am not trying to prove which is best. I'm just trying to expose their differences. Like I said, it seems many people prefer the modeler anyway. That's fine with me, I won't argue with that.

As far as the effect question, I assure you there are none. There are 2 performances panned in stereo. To me it always sounds like there is some crappy digital effect that is masking all the "oomph" of the sound.

 

[Thatupstateguy]

Hey Metal,.... nice comparison man,.... I knew the first one was tube,...just because I know that sound,.... fuller and more robust than the other two,... but I had the modeler, and SS mixed up,.... they both sound thin, by the way, but the real test, in a mix, and live on stage is where the differences really show up...and I think the tube really shines at that,... and is probably why 80-90% of the guys actually out there doin it for a living, are using tube amps,.... some are custom jobs,... but most are off the shelf brand names like Mesa, Marshall, Genz-Benz, etc.....at least for the metal,..... most of the other names are really not used much for metal sounds,..... Fender, and those are used for more pure Rock and Roll, and Blues,

Great job dude,.... maybe it will spur on other tests that we can use here.....

Fender, Boutique, modeler shootout, or something like that,.....

I would like to hear a speaker comparison,.... say a fender head with Celestion bottom,... Weber bottom, Eminence bottom, kind of thing,.....


Really like the sound of Tone Tubbies there,..... maybe throw in one of those too,......

Thanks for doing this......


Steve

 

[metalhead28]

Hey Metal,.... nice comparison man,.... I knew the first one was tube,...just because I know that sound,.... fuller and more robust than the other two,... but I had the modeler, and SS mixed up,.... they both sound thin, by the way, but the real test, in a mix, and live on stage is where the differences really show up...and I think the tube really shines at that,... and is probably why 80-90% of the guys actually out there doin it for a living, are using tube amps,.... some are custom jobs,... but most are off the shelf brand names like Mesa, Marshall, Genz-Benz, etc.....at least for the metal,..... most of the other names are really not used much for metal sounds,..... Fender, and those are used for more pure Rock and Roll, and Blues,

Great job dude,.... maybe it will spur on other tests that we can use here.....

Fender, Boutique, modeler shootout, or something like that,.....

I would like to hear a speaker comparison,.... say a fender head with Celestion bottom,... Weber bottom, Eminence bottom, kind of thing,.....


Really like the sound of Tone Tubbies there,..... maybe throw in one of those too,......

Thanks for doing this......


Steve

Thanks man. I hoped that everyone would appreciate it for what it is. I'm not trying to slam anybody's methods.

By the way, some other comparisons would be cool as well. A speaker comparison would be great. I know it doesn't apply to everyone, but I am going to get a new speaker for my cab soon. When I do that I'll throw up a quick Celestion GT12-75 versus Vintage 30 shootout. There is a growing consensus that Vintage 30's kick the most ass for heavy tones, I'll put it to the test.

 

[amra]

As far as the effect question, I assure you there are none. There are 2 performances panned in stereo. To me it always sounds like there is some crappy digital effect that is masking all the "oomph" of the sound.

That's probably what I was hearing - some kind of slight phasing effect or echo. Anyways, I got to give you props for taking the initiative to do this test, didn't exactly aggree with the methadology...but at least it stirs discussion and debate.

 

[famous beagle]

Well, I must reiterate that I am not trying to prove which is best. I'm just trying to expose their differences. Like I said, it seems many people prefer the modeler anyway. That's fine with me, I won't argue with that.

As far as the effect question, I assure you there are none. There are 2 performances panned in stereo. To me it always sounds like there is some crappy digital effect that is masking all the "oomph" of the sound.

Wow that's really weird. I have to agree with amra that I thought there was something on the last one. The second it started I thought "why does this one have reverb and the other two are dry as a bone?" Strange ...

 

[metalhead28]

Wow that's really weird. I have to agree with amra that I thought there was something on the last one. The second it started I thought "why does this one have reverb and the other two are dry as a bone?" Strange ...

A fair question I suppose. I think it is just the characteristic sound of the cabinet modeling perhaps.

 

[Newbie-Doo]

Awesome Thread

On first listen...

1 Tube
2 Modeler - Just has that synthetic modeler tone. Hope I'm right...
3 No, this is the tube amp, it is more open\looser and the best sounding IMO, so it must be the tube amp and 1 is the SS because it is the tightest sounding.

Now please tell us which is which!

 

[IronFlippy]

On first listen...

1 Tube
2 Modeler - Just has that synthetic modeler tone. Hope I'm right...
3 No, this is the tube amp, it is more open\looser and the best sounding IMO, so it must be the tube amp and 1 is the SS because it is the tightest sounding.

Now please tell us which is which!

I think you missed the boat. It's about 30 miles that way. -->

(btw, he posted the answers on the second page, had you read the thread.)

 

[metalhead28]

On first listen...

1 Tube
2 Modeler - Just has that synthetic modeler tone. Hope I'm right...
3 No, this is the tube amp, it is more open\looser and the best sounding IMO, so it must be the tube amp and 1 is the SS because it is the tightest sounding.

Now please tell us which is which!

You just might get the award for being the most off.
Sorry dude, just ribbing ya'

Yeah, the answers are on page 2

 

[metalhead28]

On first listen...

1 Tube
2 Modeler - Just has that synthetic modeler tone. Hope I'm right...
3 No, this is the tube amp, it is more open\looser and the best sounding IMO, so it must be the tube amp and 1 is the SS because it is the tightest sounding.

Now please tell us which is which!

See folks, there is another vote for the modeler sounding the best!
Nobody can accuse me of rigging this thing!

 

[Newbie-Doo]

See folks, there is another vote for the modeler sounding the best!
Nobody can accuse me of rigging this thing!

That is extra embarrassing because I hate those friggen things!

At least my first guess was right. You know what they say about going back to change your answers on a test. haha

 

[metalhead28]

That is extra embarrassing because I hate those friggen things!

Haha...apparently you don't!
This means you need to re-evaluate everything that you though you knew about everything!!!!!

 

[ericlingus]

haha that's funny. I guess you really don't hate them. Anyways I would really like to hear the three differnt amp types in a mix and see how that turns out.

 

[jeffree]

Metal, I really enjoy these shoot-outs because they take most of our preconceptions out of the equation. We can no longer simply state: I hate modelers and/or solid-state amps. Suddenly, we have three listening choices, and when the differences seem small and stylistic--or better yet, we don't guess correctly which is which--we're forced to open our eyes a bit. Well, at least some of us are.

The same holds true for other types of shoot-outs, as well. I especially enjoyed the blind monitor shoot-out that Future Music mag ran last year (spread over three issues). Which monitors ruled highest (by sound only) over two of the three price categories? Those cheap little 3" and 5" Yamahas. The judges were amazed when they found out, and so was I. There were some other surprises, too, which made for an interesting read.

So thanks for throwing these clips out to us. For the record, the first clip appealed to me most during a quick first listen. Then again, I use a modeler (Johnson J-Station) as well as a tube amp (MusicMan) and am very happy with each of them for different purposes.

Best,

J.