metalhead28
Hates Raymond
jeffree said:
It was my pleasure. I enjoy this sort of think myself and I would like to see more stuff like this around here. I think I may do a couple of pre-amp and microphone shootouts as well one of these days.
Thanks.
It was my pleasure. I enjoy this sort of think myself and I would like to see more stuff like this around here. I think I may do a couple of pre-amp and microphone shootouts as well one of these days.
Thanks.
H
hoursonend
Member
Yeah, I was just going to state that this kind of test should really be done in the mic section 
Nice test, great job!
Stan.
Nice test, great job!
Stan.
JeffLancaster
New member
Cool shootout. I found it easy to discern the tube amp, but guessed wrong between the Solid State and the modeller. Turns out I liked the sound of the modeller better than the solid state amp. Now if I was in a room playing guitar by myself (not recording) I would definitely prefer playing through that tube amp, it has a nice full sound and a bite that you can "feel". However, when placed in a mix with heavy drums and a solid bass part, I wonder if maybe that modeller sound would work better. Reason being that the bass and drums would be rounding out the low end of your sound, providing the thump and the "feel" without interference of lows from the guitar, and the "sheen" of the high frequency distortion in the modelled sound would give the song it's edge. It seems like you'd have to eq some of the lows out of the tube amp sound to make it sit with the bass and drums, and apply more processing to give it the same kind of "edge" as the modelled sound (which I think is what you'd want in a metal song of this nature). So I guess I don't see the advantage, might as well just use the modeller... It would be very interesting to continue this test by adding drums and bass to these three clips, doing some eq and processing to get each one sounding it's best, and then seeing how it all sounded...
J
jeffree
New member
JeffLancaster said:
Good point, Jeff. I'm learning more and more lately about how to help instruments fit into my mixes better. I know, I know, basic stuff, but I've always been able to pay pro's to do this stuff for me in the past, and now I'm having to learn it myself in my home studio. Carving out an EQ-niche for each instrument (not to mention a suitable pan space in the stereo field) is quickly becoming my obsession. How something sounds in isolation is typically not as important as how it sounds in the full mix. Clip 1 here, my initial favorite, may not be the best in many types of mixes.
J.
tourettes5139
New member
JeffLancaster said:
I was actually thinking the exact opposite thing. The modeller sounded more processed to me, and seemed like it would get lost very easily. But, I suppose this is all subjective anyway.
metalhead28
Hates Raymond
tourettes5139 said:I was actually thinking the exact opposite thing. The modeller sounded more processed to me, and seemed like it would get lost very easily. But, I suppose this is all subjective anyway.
I agree with this completely. Actually the modeler's tone is very complex if you will, but if this makes any sense it is as if it is spread across the tonal spectrum very thinly. There is no real meat anywhere that will make it pronounced in a mix. The tube amp sound really hammers out a spot in the mix and has alot of presence. Of course as I stated earlier, Ideally I would add another track or two of that tube amp to fill out the sound. Probably a track with more gain and less low end. Something that would compliment the low mids of the sample track. That's what it's all about in a mix if you ask me. Of course we're talking about heavy metal rhythm guitars here. This isn't the same philosophy perhaps for other kinds of tone.
JeffLancaster
New member
metalhead28 said:
Well, my thinking was that a good bass part should work hand in hand with the rhythm guitar, and together they should provide the "meat" of the song. It seems best to not have the two parts stepping on each other, if you know what I mean. However, a lot of my thinking is just speculation, and I'm still learning things every day, which is why I'd love to see this test carried forward like I described.
Bloodsoaked
Death Metal Freak
Hey metalhead28, was Cllick Here the Modeler you used to record? Did you basicly go from your guitar into the Modeler and then into your PC?
Thank you...
Thank you...
metalhead28
Hates Raymond
Bloodsoaked said:
No, I used the V-Amp pro, the rack mount version.
But yes, the signal was guitar > V-Amp > SPDIF out to soundcard
The SPDIF is a digital out, there are analog outs as well.
Bloodsoaked
Death Metal Freak
metalhead28 said:
Do you think I would be able to get a simular sound with the product I linked to above? Thanks...
metalhead28
Hates Raymond
Bloodsoaked said:
I'm not really sure. They may in fact have the exact same sounds. The description makes it look that way. Mine may simply be a rack mount version with more connections.
therage!
Wicked Machine
metalhead28 said:
They are basically the same thing except the Pro has more I/O.
You can read some reviews at Sound on Sound mag..
I've compared the Pro's analog outs to the S/PDIF and could not tell much difference but I would pick up a little noise now and then on the analog outs. So I'm running the S/PDIF outs.
GONZO-X
Well-known member
you know, i sold my POD XT over this same basic issue..
it's not that the pod sounded bad..
in fact, it sounded pretty damn good!
it just didn't FEEL right.
it did not inspire me......
something very fake, about the reponse, and the feel of it..
this is purely subjective.
but after a year of recording with the pod, i decided, just like the head of metal, that it just didn't sit in the mix the way i wanted.
no matter what cabs i picked, what mics, what eq's, it always had a flat dimension to it...
on the other hand, i can dial up shitty tones on my boogie, and all of them seem to work in the mix...
very odd, i know, but that's how it hits my ears.
i think eventually, if you're a killer player (like brent mason), using modelers is just down and dirty and simple, and the really good players will make them sound awesome.
i just ain't there yet!
LOL
i don't think it matters, in the long run, if you play through a modeler or SS amp (think of what ty tabor did with a gibson lab series) it all boils down to what gets the most inspired performances out of you.
cuz, these days, you can just play a clean guitar into a computer, re-amp it through some digital 'tube amp' modeler, and get sounds that 99% of the public would never hear the difference between it and the real thing.
it's not that the pod sounded bad..
in fact, it sounded pretty damn good!
it just didn't FEEL right.
it did not inspire me......
something very fake, about the reponse, and the feel of it..
this is purely subjective.
but after a year of recording with the pod, i decided, just like the head of metal, that it just didn't sit in the mix the way i wanted.
no matter what cabs i picked, what mics, what eq's, it always had a flat dimension to it...
on the other hand, i can dial up shitty tones on my boogie, and all of them seem to work in the mix...
very odd, i know, but that's how it hits my ears.
i think eventually, if you're a killer player (like brent mason), using modelers is just down and dirty and simple, and the really good players will make them sound awesome.
i just ain't there yet!
LOL
i don't think it matters, in the long run, if you play through a modeler or SS amp (think of what ty tabor did with a gibson lab series) it all boils down to what gets the most inspired performances out of you.
cuz, these days, you can just play a clean guitar into a computer, re-amp it through some digital 'tube amp' modeler, and get sounds that 99% of the public would never hear the difference between it and the real thing.
ocnor
Lord Of The Thighs
Almost but not quite. The Pro has Ultra-G cabinet simulation on the XLR outs. I use only the Ultra-G beacause the regular cabinet models sound like crap. To me they all have a shrill yet boxy tone with way too much bass in the 63hz-100hz range. That is why the unit sounds good alone but gets lost when mixed with other instruments. That doesn't happen when you turn off the cab models and run only the Ultra-G outs.therage! said:
Here is a tune that I recorded with the V-Amp Pro Ultra-G outs.
"One Track Mind" http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=154414
Codmate
New member
I really liked this experiment.
I was wondering how close they would be, but it was really obvious in the end.
I don't play metal, but I prefer the tube amp, then the solid state, and then the modeler.
I thought the modeler sounded very thin and characterless. It sounds very low resolution to me.
The other two are usable - but the tube amp is 100% better than the other two.
I might play too and post up some tones later myself (although I don't own a modeler, I could always try the amplitube demo). Does it have to be 'metal'?
I was wondering how close they would be, but it was really obvious in the end.
I don't play metal, but I prefer the tube amp, then the solid state, and then the modeler.
I thought the modeler sounded very thin and characterless. It sounds very low resolution to me.
The other two are usable - but the tube amp is 100% better than the other two.
I might play too and post up some tones later myself (although I don't own a modeler, I could always try the amplitube demo). Does it have to be 'metal'?
therage!
Wicked Machine
ocnor said:
I had forgot about that, good catch.
I haven't used the Ultra-G but will try it now. I got into using the S/PDIF out and never gave anything else much thought. I will for sure try this out,
Thanks
Reggie
PutsTheLotionOnItsSkin
arcaxis said:
Not in my book. Even if you aren't totally cranking a tube amp to where it is overdriving the power tubes, a lot of the mojo still comes from the power tubes. In fact, I would rather have a SS preamp into a tube power amp. Those hybrid things are a bit gimmicky, but I guess one little tube is better than none at all.
metalhead28
Hates Raymond
arcaxis said:
The tube "hybrid" thing to me is just a total gimmick. I don't think anything about the tone of that amp really comes from that lone little tube in the pre-amp. It sounds like any other decent solid state amp to me. There is also quite a bit of power amp distortion to be had from that amp. In fact, that is where it really shines in my opinion, with the gain low and the power amp cranked. So I consider it just a solid state amp with it's own little "tube" gimmick just like every other company.
cellardweller
New member
What do you think of the new Randall G3 hybrids?
Are they tube power-stage?
Freakin' 200 watt COMBO amp!!!
Are they tube power-stage?
Freakin' 200 watt COMBO amp!!!
M
mawd
New member
Okay folks. After much poop slinging in another thread, everybody wanted to hear a simple comparison of a solid state amp, a tube amp, and a modeler in action.
I'm not going to identify which is which, I'll leave everyone to argue about it for a little while even though I think it's totally obvious.
------
* 1 is the tube because there's more space in between the 'breakup'..
2 + 3 sound VERY processed.
MAWD
I'm not going to identify which is which, I'll leave everyone to argue about it for a little while even though I think it's totally obvious.
------
* 1 is the tube because there's more space in between the 'breakup'..
2 + 3 sound VERY processed.
MAWD