Snare in overheads

  • Thread starter Thread starter sixer2007
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sixer2007

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Hey everyone, I have a bit of an issue and I'm not sure how to deal with it.
I have some tracks that I didn't actually record, so i'm just mixing them. In the overheads, you can clearly hear that the snare was picked up by the right OH more than the left. So in my entire mix, the snare seems to be panned to about 50% right. It's driving me nuts!

I've tried two things to remedy it... First, I tried to pan the actual snare track a bit to the left to make it seem more centered over all, but it wasn't working. It made the snare sound way too big IMO, and then i could hear the snare in the OH right even more than before.

Then, i went in and tried to take out the snare sound in the OH frequencies. This seems to work somewhat, as i can hear the actual snare track more clearly, but taking out those freq made the overall drum mix sound a bit too "No mids-ish".

Have you guys come across this, and what might you do to make the snare seemed strait in the middle?
 
What DAW are you using? In Reaper you change the 'width' of the stereo pan for each channel, you could then take the right OH and narrow the width to help bring the snare more to the center.
Otherwise, you could use a gate to remove the snare from both overheads and just use the snare mic track.
 
I use Cubase 5...

I've never come across a panning width thing, but surely it would exist if other DAWs have it.
How would i gate the snare out of the OHs though? Wouldn't that cause some trouble if a cymbal is hit at/near the same time as the snare?
 
Two things come to mind.
One, who says the snare has to be in the middle?
Two, Stereo drums are over rated. Collapse the drums to mono. Problem solved.
 
You can't do anything about it that's gonna sound good. You can't un-ring a bell. If the tracks are recorded with the snare more prominent in the right channel, then that's what you have. You could collapse the tracks to mono, but since stereo drums are NOT AT ALL overrated, you'll probably be stuck with thin one dimensional mono drums.

Keep in mind that a leaning snare is really only noticeable on headphones or nearfield monitors. Scoot back from your monitors, listen in the car, or listen on a home stereo and you won't notice at all.
 
There's just a chance that your off-centeredness'age is partly time.
Have you looked into their relative arrivals?
 
Mono the overheads (shocking suggestion, I know!). That's your best option if you want to get the snare in the center.

As far as "narrowing" the stereo field goes, what's the point? If it's not hard L and R, it's not stereo, is it? I would way rather mono both overheads than create the illusion of "pseudo-stereo". The snare will still be pulling to one side, albeit to a lesser degree.

But don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against the snare being louder in one channel or the other, PROVIDED it fits the material, but the OP is clearly looking for a centered snare so the above is the best suggestion I can give.

Cheers :)
 
Time align the snare mic to the overheads and it might work better to pull the snare back to center.

Narrowing the image can also help. In real life the only one who hears it that wide is the drummer. It will still be stereo unless you pan both tracks center, just not such a wide image.

A gate will probably do exactly the opposite of what you want, open on snare hits and close for cymbals.
 
Greg_L said:
You can't do anything about it that's gonna sound good. You can't un-ring a bell. If the tracks are recorded with the snare more prominent in the right channel, then that's what you have.
Click to expand...

Yeah this my thoughts on the issue.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Time align the snare mic to the overheads and it might work better to pull the snare back to center..
Click to expand...
Hmm. The close mic already has first arrival going for it. I'm wondering if bringing the O/h's forward might actually make it worse.

I'm still holding out for a possible 'right gets (got) there first. :)
 
mixsit said:
Hmm. The close mic already has first arrival going for it. I'm wondering if bringing the O/h's forward might actually make it worse.

I'm still holding out for a possible 'right gets (got) there first. :)
Click to expand...

But the different arrival times do much the same thing as copied/delayed/panned guitars, make things sound wider. The OP complained about the wide sound so if he time aligns the close mic to the far mic he can use the close mic to counter the snare in the far mic without as much of the wide sound. Of course it won't be perfect but it's worth a try.

Oh, heck, just listen to these:

Overhead only. This recording used only one and I panned it hard right to represent the OP's situation.
[MP3]http://bouldersoundguy.com/media/1-OH-only.mp3[/MP3]

OH hard right with snare mic panned hard left, not time aligned.
[MP3]http://bouldersoundguy.com/media/2-unaligned.mp3[/MP3]

OH hard right with snare mic panned hard left, time aligned.
[MP3]http://bouldersoundguy.com/media/3-aligned.mp3[/MP3]
 
bouldersoundguy said:
But the different arrival times do much the same thing as copied/delayed/panned guitars, make things sound wider. The OP complained about the wide sound so if he time aligns the close mic to the far mic he can use the close mic to counter the snare in the far mic without as much of the wide sound. Of course it won't be perfect but it's worth a try.

Oh, heck, just listen to these:

Overhead only. This recording used only one and I panned it hard right to represent the OP's situation.
[MP3]http://bouldersoundguy.com/media/1-OH-only.mp3[/MP3]

OH hard right with snare mic panned hard left, not time aligned.
[MP3]http://bouldersoundguy.com/media/2-unaligned.mp3[/MP3]

OH hard right with snare mic panned hard left, time aligned.
[MP3]http://bouldersoundguy.com/media/3-aligned.mp3[/MP3]
Click to expand...

Interesting that the hard left snare is brought into center.
But would a centered snare be pulled right? (-with the same alignment.
 
mixsit said:
Interesting that the hard left snare is brought into center.
But would a centered snare be pulled right? (-with the same alignment.
Click to expand...

Yes, if you center panned the snare mic it would be pulled right by the overheads with or without time alignment. That was the OP's problem. With time alignment it would be like a simple pan control feeding different levels of the "same" signal to left and right. Without time alignment it would sound more "ambient", but there would still be more snare sound on the right than on the left.
 
You could bus the OHs to a stereo aux, pan the L and R OHs to get the snare a bit more centred, then add a stereo imager plug-in and move to get the snare even more centred.
If this does not fix the problem enough then using less OHs and more close snare mic can help, and also panning the close snare mic a little to counter balance the OHs.

G
 
And another simple fix, pull down the volume of the OH that has the snare in it more than the other.

G
 
No, I don't understand how some of you come up with the ridiculous ideas in this thread.
 
What OH method was used?

I know with the Glyn Johns, I end up with the snare leaning even though both mics are the same distance, the one directly above the snare tends to have a lot more snare in it. I just pan one toward the center until the snare is centered, and and it works fine. I also don't like super wide drums anyway.

Greg is also right, it won't be noticed in most situations, and even when it is, it will probably be minimal.
 
Greg_L said:
No, I don't understand how some of you come up with the ridiculous ideas in this thread.
Click to expand...
Not sure if you are talking about my ways of fixing, they are not ridiculous, they work period.

G
 
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