Small vs. large condensor mics

  • Thread starter Thread starter jeffree
  • Start date Start date
J

jeffree

New member
Just a thought and question. As a home recorder who's admittedly less experienced than some folks here, I do know that the studios I've recorded in have always prefered *large* condensors when I'm trying to record a solo guitar piece. I've had the impression that large condensors can better bring out the deeper (woodier) tones of an acoustic instrument. However, when I've recorded backing guitar parts or smaller instruments (like a balalaika), we've usually switched to a *small* condensor.

With this in mind, I've noticed in these mic threads how often folks toss out and mix suggestions for large or small condensors for acoustic guitars--all in the same thread. Am I missing something? Isn't this issue of "what type and style of acoustic guitar, solo or background?" an important element in choosing a condensor, or have I been misled by the studio guys I've worked with, or has condensor design changed in recent years? Anyone have an experienced opinion?

Cheers,

J.
 
My opnion. I tend to prefer SDC's to LDC's on acoustics but as in all things, it depends. It depends on things like what particular guitar, the style of the player on that guitar and what context all of that fits into (dense mix? solo?).
 
I think we may have touched on this subject in the very first sticky in this forum, right at the top of the forum.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
I think we may have touched on this subject in the very first sticky in this forum, right at the top of the forum.
Click to expand...
Yeah, maybe just a little! :D
 
The only thing I can think of is that larger diaphragms sometimes sound a little more compressed, up-front or intimate. Probably because most are designed with vocals in mind, I would assume.

Perhaps the guys you're working with are thinking along the lines of using different mics for the solo or featured instrument in the hopes of either bringing it slightly forward . . . or perhaps to just give it a slightly different timbre so it stands out just a tad from the other tracks.

Other than that, you're talking about something that's pretty subjective. There really aren't any hard and fast rules about this stuff. Just use whatever mics get the job done for you and get recording. :D
 
jeffree said:
Just a thought and question. As a home recorder who's admittedly less experienced than some folks here, I do know that the studios I've recorded in have always prefered *large* condensors when I'm trying to record a solo guitar piece. I've had the impression that large condensors can better bring out the deeper (woodier) tones of an acoustic instrument. However, when I've recorded backing guitar parts or smaller instruments (like a balalaika), we've usually switched to a *small* condensor.

With this in mind, I've noticed in these mic threads how often folks toss out and mix suggestions for large or small condensors for acoustic guitars--all in the same thread. Am I missing something? Isn't this issue of "what type and style of acoustic guitar, solo or background?" an important element in choosing a condensor, or have I been misled by the studio guys I've worked with, or has condensor design changed in recent years? Anyone have an experienced opinion?

Cheers,


J.
Click to expand...

The funny thing about mics is that they *all* color the sound by the very nature of their usage. Some color the sound more than others. In all my years of recording, I find that the "sound" people talk about is the sound that their ears hear. A microphone "hears" sound totally different. The sound of your amp, for instance, is derived from a binaural interpretation of the amp, the room, and the vibration of the instrument through your body. These three sources cannot be duplicated with any mic. The frustration from beginning recordists is trying to get the same sound as you hear looking at the source.

The one trick I can tell you is that the sound your mic is hearing is most accurately dulicated by placing a hand over one ear and directing your open ear to the sound source *just like a mic would be*. I think you will find that the sound you hear this way is not the sound you are looking for. You have to move your ear around to find the *sweet spot*. Then, place the mic there. After you find this spot *only then* can you choose the mic that *you like the sound of*. Knowing the differences and the pros and cons of LDC vs. SDC mics, Dynamic vs. Condensor vs. Ribbon mics will get you there faster than total experimentation. This is why people like Chessrock *always* point out that the room is far more important than what pre-amp to use etc. The room is at least 1/2 the sound to your ears and the mic. Granted close miking removes much of the room sound factors, it is still the most overlooked ingredient to getting "the sound"
 
chessrock said:
The only thing I can think of is that larger diaphragms sometimes sound a little more compressed, up-front or intimate. Probably because most are designed with vocals in mind, I would assume.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the most colored mic people tend to have is a LDC. I recall from the thread that's a natural feature of LDC vs. SDCs which tend to be more neutral.

There's a tendency to want instruments to sound natural and vocals to sound colored. Like there was one thread where I stated that I liked a violin tone with a bit of screech, and most people didn't like that at all. There is a notion about how instruments should sound, so I guess that's why SDCs tend to be recommended for 'em.
 
I apologize for the repetition of my question--the sticky threads do indeed clarify things for me. My own question was kind of a knee-jerk reaction to the many mixed small/large recommendations that I was reading here this morning. I realize now that I should have searched a bit before posting (as I'm so quick to suggest to newbies!). My bad.

Some helpful responses, though--thanks to all.

J.
 
Perfect, Marik. The blue table is an excellent summary reference.

Thanks!

J.
 
acorec said:
The funny thing about mics is that they *all* color the sound by the very nature of their usage. Some color the sound more than others. In all my years of recording, I find that the "sound" people talk about is the sound that their ears hear. A microphone "hears" sound totally different. The sound of your amp, for instance, is derived from a binaural interpretation of the amp, the room, and the vibration of the instrument through your body. These three sources cannot be duplicated with any mic. The frustration from beginning recordists is trying to get the same sound as you hear looking at the source.

The one trick I can tell you is that the sound your mic is hearing is most accurately dulicated by placing a hand over one ear and directing your open ear to the sound source *just like a mic would be*. I think you will find that the sound you hear this way is not the sound you are looking for. You have to move your ear around to find the *sweet spot*. Then, place the mic there. After you find this spot *only then* can you choose the mic that *you like the sound of*. Knowing the differences and the pros and cons of LDC vs. SDC mics, Dynamic vs. Condensor vs. Ribbon mics will get you there faster than total experimentation. This is why people like Chessrock *always* point out that the room is far more important than what pre-amp to use etc. The room is at least 1/2 the sound to your ears and the mic. Granted close miking removes much of the room sound factors, it is still the most overlooked ingredient to getting "the sound"
Click to expand...

You know, I have to agree. It's only recently that I had upgraded my components to the point that the "room" even became a factor. When you're using tape, a cheap mixer and $60 mics you don't notice things like a bad room. It's only when you have better (not necessarily the best) components in your chain that you begin to notice the nuances of the room.

Regards, Steve
 
The more I record acoustic guitars, the more I have come to think of them as singers, with voices. Some singers just work well with certain mics, because of their tone and technique. Guitars are like that too. Yes, the room is a factor, a major one. But when all is said and done, the personal preference of the AE, the musician, the producer, and the end user, is what matters.
I like the sound of a single AKG C414B-ULS on my Taylor 710CE in my room, playing the stuff I play. Do I always record it that way? No. Do I always use that guitar? No. Do I record other people that way? Sometimes- especially if they are playing my Taylor. Acoustic guitar can be beautifully recorded using 1 or 2 LD's, 1 or 2 SD's, 1 or 2 ribbons, or any 2 mic combination of the above. What color do you think a fire truck should be? Most people use red. I like yellow, and safety orange would work too.
Recording acoustic guitar is near and dear to my heart, and about half of my microphone cabinet is dedicated just to that, and I don't think there's a silver bullet out there, even Schoeps (which is at least silver plated and moving pretty quick)-Richie
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top