SM7 through a Mini-Me

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Enzo66

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I use Mbox to record into PT7 and a Digi guy told me that I can bypass the cheap sounding pres and A/D's by usuing an Apogee MiniME - better pre / includes compressor and then SPdif out to Mbox in.....

SO - Im asking has anyone come across this AND how does an SM7 sound through a MiniME .. ? I've been told to put up with the A/D converters in the Mbox and get a better pre like a API - BUT the Apogee seems like a really simple option / enough juice for a SM7 ?? .. anyone?/ ideas thoughts ... thanks!

:confused:
 
Sounds like the 'Digi guy' is sort of admitting that the M-Box is bung.

Apogee has a good rep for their higher-end gear (Rosetta, Big Ben, etc.), but FWIW I've heard the MiniMe isn't as impressive. It costs way more than it's worth basically, and it's pretty limited feature-wise. If you're committed to ProTools maybe the Digi 002 would be a better upgrade path.
 
Enzo66 said:
I use Mbox to record into PT7 and a Digi guy told me that I can bypass the cheap sounding pres and A/D's by usuing an Apogee MiniME - better pre / includes compressor and then SPdif out to Mbox in.....

SO - Im asking has anyone come across this AND how does an SM7 sound through a MiniME .. ? I've been told to put up with the A/D converters in the Mbox and get a better pre like a API - BUT the Apogee seems like a really simple option / enough juice for a SM7 ?? .. anyone?/ ideas thoughts ... thanks!

:confused:
Click to expand...

I find the pre's in the Mbox to be, not bad, but just boring. If you're gonna start buying good pre's, start buying *really* good pre's. There's no point in a very small step up. Just record as hot as you can without clips (to minimize noise floor), and choose microphones well.

I don't like to comp on input, although many will disagree with me. I do, when possible, insert heavy compression 3 DB before clip, just in case. It's better to compress hard and fast on RARE occassions than it is to record cold and lose half of your signal to noise.

One final piece of advice on the topic. Buy analog gear from companies that specialize in analog gear. I have access to a Soundcraft K2 at work. Those pre's have a lot of character, and I almost always prefer them to RME pre's, or other pre's made by companies who make great converters/digital gear.

Consider buying something with tubes, to make up for the lack of artifical warmth (150-400) in digital gear.
 
The Digi guy was just reacting to my question specifically about bypassing Mbox. In all honesty I've heard first class commercial releases through Mbox - BUT - I'm using a Shure SM7 which needs LOADS of gain - hence my dilemma.... I was told to get an API or even FMR for more character - as the Apogee is more clean - - it just seems that the MiniMe was a great package.. good pre, good compressor, and spDifnout to bypass the mbox pre and and A/D converters..

So what do you think about a pre to match an SM7 - Ive been told so many different things..
 
j-boy said:
Sounds like the 'Digi guy' is sort of admitting that the M-Box is bung.

Apogee has a good rep for their higher-end gear (Rosetta, Big Ben, etc.), but FWIW I've heard the MiniMe isn't as impressive. It costs way more than it's worth basically, and it's pretty limited feature-wise. If you're committed to ProTools maybe the Digi 002 would be a better upgrade path.
Click to expand...

Now see, I've heard just the opposite. The mini is supposed to rip ass. Even if I was just guessing, I'd have to say the converters are better than the m-box.
 
See Ive heard that to, so Im trying to clarify but it seems lots of people have heard diferent on the MiniMe Apogee - I really neeed to find someone who actually runs an SM7 through one - so I can hear what they feel on it! AGH
 
j-boy said:
Apogee has a good rep for their higher-end gear (Rosetta, Big Ben, etc.), but FWIW I've heard the MiniMe isn't as impressive. It costs way more than it's worth basically, and it's pretty limited feature-wise. If you're committed to ProTools maybe the Digi 002 would be a better upgrade path.
Click to expand...

This is the opposite of what I have heard on various forums.
 
Okay, let's just look at what you get:

Mini-Me
cost = $1,200
(2) mic preamps
24 bit/96kHz A/D converters
soft limiting
AES/EBU or S/PDIF outs only (no FireWire option). A USB option is available but USB bites for audio transfer.
No D/A converters so another device like the Mini-DAC ($800) would be required. But still no FireWire to connect with your computer. And you're now up to about $2,100 cost.

Digi 002 Rack
cost = $1,200
(4) mic preamps
24 bit/96kHz A/D and D/A
FireWire connection to computer
Rackmountable
Or --->for $2,100 you could get the Digi 002 which includes a control surface.

Honestly, what am I missing? Seems like you don't get a lot for your money with the Apogee 'Mini's'.
 
Ahh yes, but that's just it. You may have less features, but I would say that those features would be of better quality. Just think about, even with just the number of preamps. 2 vs. 4. For the same amount of money, they can then put in better components than if they have to have twice as many. Now, I know that it is not this simple. There are many other factors, and the manufacturers will not all price their stuff alike, but I propose this just as a very general suggestion.

$0.02 :)
 
j-boy said:
Okay, let's just look at what you get:

Mini-Me
cost = $1,200
(2) mic preamps
24 bit/96kHz A/D converters
soft limiting
AES/EBU or S/PDIF outs only (no FireWire option). A USB option is available but USB bites for audio transfer.
No D/A converters so another device like the Mini-DAC ($800) would be required. But still no FireWire to connect with your computer. And you're now up to about $2,100 cost.

Digi 002 Rack
cost = $1,200
(4) mic preamps
24 bit/96kHz A/D and D/A
FireWire connection to computer
Rackmountable
Or --->for $2,100 you could get the Digi 002 which includes a control surface.

Honestly, what am I missing? Seems like you don't get a lot for your money with the Apogee 'Mini's'.
Click to expand...

I can't speak from personal experience with either of these units, just what I've read over the last few years over at Gearslutz and other forums. None of the working pros or experienced recordists who have compared the Digi002 to higher end gear think much of the Digi002 preamps or converters. In fact, they are considered fairly low quality for the price you pay. On the other hand, although there are a few MiniMe detractors, the preamps, soft limiter, and AD converters in the MiniMe generally are considered one of the best bang-for-the-buck combos in the business.

So, to answer your question based on the hundreds of opinions I have read from experienced people, the difference is quality. But it appears your research has lead you to the opposite conclusion. That's cool because it really is just a lot of opinions.
 
Enzo66 said:
I use Mbox to record into PT7 and a Digi guy told me that I can bypass the cheap sounding pres and A/D's by usuing an Apogee MiniME - better pre / includes compressor and then SPdif out to Mbox in.....
Click to expand...
So, in other words, at that point the M-Box is essentially just a big dongle. That's a real efficient use of your hard-earned money. Especially considering that all communication with your computer is via bog-slow, low-bandwidth USB1.1.

Don't get the wrong impression... I'm not beating you up Enzo, it's the PT scam that I'm dissing. You can only run their software on certain proprietary hardware devices, and those aren't the best ones out there by a country mile. There are interfaces by MOTU, RME and E-MU that are way better, yes, features AND sound quality. It's about choice. Bear in mind now I'm talking about their 'home studio' prosumer line and not the $30K professional desks and such. Apples and oranges.

This is why I personally don't use ProTools (I use SONAR). I only advised you looking at the Digi 002 because it seems that you're wedded to using PT. That's okay... I'm sure you have your reasons. You could also look into the M-Audio interface/control surface that was debuted at NAMM, but that would require that you buy another version of PT (M-Powered), again, not a good use of hard-earned money buying something twice.

If I were you I'd cut my losses, and get a MOTU Traveller and Logic if you're an Apple user, or RME FireFace and SONAR if you're a Windows guy. No damn proprietary shananigans to deal with. Believe me, at the prosumer level PT doesn't have anything nowadays over Digital Performer, Logic, Cubase, SONAR, etc.
 
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j-boy said:
So, in other words, at that point the M-Box is essentially just a big dongle. That's a real efficient use of your hard-earned money. Especially considering that all communication with your computer is via bog-slow, low-bandwidth USB1.1.

Don't get the wrong impression... I'm not beating you up Enzo, it's the PT scam that I'm dissing. You can only run their software on certain proprietary hardware devices, and those aren't the best ones out there by a country mile. There are interfaces by MOTU, RME and E-MU that are way better, yes, features AND sound quality. It's about choice. Bear in mind now I'm talking about their 'home studio' prosumer line and not the $30K professional desks and such. Apples and oranges.

This is why I personally don't use ProTools (I use SONAR). I only advised you looking at the Digi 002 because it seems that you're wedded to using PT. That's okay... I'm sure you have your reasons. You could also look into the M-Audio interface/control surface that was debuted at NAMM, but that would require that you buy another version of PT (M-Powered), again, not a good use of hard-earned money buying something twice.

If I were you I'd cut my losses, and get a MOTU Traveller and Logic if you're an Apple user, or RME FireFace and SONAR if you're a Windows guy. No damn proprietary shananigans to deal with. Believe me, at the prosumer level PT doesn't have anything nowadays over Digital Performer, Logic, Cubase, SONAR, etc.
Click to expand...

No offense taken at all; I like hearing all sides.. actually youre right Ill be kind of using Mbox as a big dongle but consider I got Pro Tools 7 and Mbox for £245 which is cheaper than SX3, Sonar - practically any of them....... + I just love Pro Tools / I cannot use anything else.. I like SX3 a bit and Nuendo is fuckin killler BUT for the money - Pro Tools is just a given, for me.. I see what youre saying about PT and their scheme of hardware/software..

I basically need one input - we do vocals only so the number of inputs is irrelevant. I'm after pure quality over anything else.. DIgi guy I spoke with was first to admit the quality in Mbox/002 is not PRO PRO but having said that - I know of many releases done on Mboxes and a lot less.. / for me I want a pre' that will match my SM7 nicely (a lot of pre's dont!) - a compressor (the Mini Me is supposed to be real nice) and prefrably A/D just to get signal into Pro Tools) - thats why I figured the Mini Me made sense..

I guess my question was - Anyone ever used an SM7 through an Apogee MiniMe? AND ALSO; would my money be better spent on ignoring the A/D issue and going with a setup like a RNP/RNC - Grace, or even looking at other things..

Those were the questions really.. I appreciate all your replies by the way.. bit by bit - I find light shed on situations so I can make decisions and lets face it £900 upwards is a hefty sum of money..
:eek:
 
Okay, then...

If you plan to stick with PT and you don't need more ins and outs than you've got now, I'd suggest adding something like a Grace 101 preamp for about $600 (or better if you've got more to spend) and calling it good.

The D/A converters in the M-Box may not be the 'best', but frankly I don't think the differences among converters are as dramatic as the differences among front-end gear. First things first. Again, my guess is that you will be happy enough with the improvement that a quality preamp brings to your signal chain, and the M-Box converters will suffice.

And... a good analog preamp will be usable in the future no matter what changes occur in computer recording technology. I'm not sure the same will be true of the Mini-Me.
 
the minime is the best option of all that you mentioned...smokes PT, line 6, maudio.RNP,.....and I doubt itll go out of fashion any time soon. The pres are solid and of course the AD conversion is what apogee is known for. Another all in one is the grace lunatec v3. 2 channels of pre/adc.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=59845.0

theres one for sale..
 
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and if youve got 900 pounds...you can get the grace v3.Quality Conversion has made a big difference to my rig....
 
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