Singing techniques - can i get help here?

  • Thread starter Thread starter yiordanaki
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SYNERGY,

Let me get this straight, your only interest in this post is to call me a Prick?

What are you 4 ?

Please enlighten us all on how to improve someone's singing.
Tell us all how to debunk bad information more politly then my first few post.

AFTER YOU STATE YOUR POINT OF VIEW, LET SOME NEWBEE TELL YOU ARE WRONG IN YOUR ADVICE.

Please, explain how the information that I gave, although not done tactful, is incorrect.
Please tell me what you are an expert on.
Perhaps, your an expert on politeness. I see from your recent posts your very polite. NOT !

You see, I'm trying to do good here, it is falling on deaf ears.

Who are YOU trying to benefit ? These new comers ?

At this stage, there only interest is to tell me I'm a bastard.

AND DO YOU KNOW WHAT ? They are right, I am.

I'm also someone who has studied singing for a long time. Few people have.
I also do not want to see anyone destroy their voice from incorrect singing or bad advice.
I also have some advice that could help beginners.

Yes, I do claim to be a good singer, I hope I am considering the amount of money & time I invested.

That is not a brag, just something I believe about myself.
Do I think I'm the best singer ever ? Of course not.
THERE IS ALWAYS SOMEONE BETTER.
Do I feel I'm better then most ?
ABSOLUTELY !

What are you good at ?
Where does your expertise lie ?

Careful of what you post, stating that your very good at something is arrogant & some member may come along and start ripping into you simply because he doesn't like the way you went about it.

Peace,

Sean

Ps,

You sign your posts with peace, but that is something you are entirely uninterested in.
 
smellyfuzz said:
SYNERGY,

Let me get this straight, your only interest in this post is to call me a Prick?

What are you 4 ?

Please enlighten us all on how to improve someone's singing.
Tell us all how to debunk bad information more politly then my first few post.

AFTER YOU STATE YOUR POINT OF VIEW, LET SOME NEWBEE TELL YOU ARE WRONG IN YOUR ADVICE.

Please, explain how the information that I gave, although not done tactful, is incorrect.
Please tell me what you are an expert on.
Perhaps, your an expert on politeness. I see from your recent posts your very polite. NOT !

You see, I'm trying to do good here, it is falling on deaf ears.

Who are YOU trying to benefit ? These new comers ?

At this stage, there only interest is to tell me I'm a bastard.

AND DO YOU KNOW WHAT ? They are right, I am.

I'm also someone who has studied singing for a long time. Few people have.
I also do not want to see anyone destroy their voice from incorrect singing or bad advice.
I also have some advice that could help beginners.

Yes, I do claim to be a good singer, I hope I am considering the amount of money & time I invested.

That is not a brag, just something I believe about myself.
Do I think I'm the best singer ever ? Of course not.
THERE IS ALWAYS SOMEONE BETTER.
Do I feel I'm better then most ?
ABSOLUTELY !

What are you good at ?
Where does your expertise lie ?

Careful of what you post, stating that your very good at something is arrogant & some member may come along and start ripping into you simply because he doesn't like the way you went about it.

Peace,

Sean

Ps,

You sign your posts with peace, but that is something you are entirely uninterested in.
Click to expand...

No, I think synergy was simply trying to make the point that you are an asshole. Nothing more than that. He wasnt saying "Your a suck ass singer", he wasnt saying anything other than "Hey, you acted like a prick, and that isnt going to help anyone." If you are trying help this person to become a better singer, you should do it positively, not say things like "I have never ment anyone with better power, pitch or range" thereby just edifying yourself. Help him, dont praise yourself. I mean, shoot, if he got a coach who was like you, do you really think that would help him any? If I had a coach like that, I wouldnt go back after the first lesson. And learn how to take criticism, if you acted like an ass, and someone points it out to you, apologize, dont dig the hole any further. By just making these childish remarks and rants, all it does is make others not want to listen to you. So just calm down, and re-assess things, you arent always right. Then again, if you cant realize that, there isnt much point arguing with you because it wont do any good. Not trying to put you down here, but try to be a little more empathetic here.

Corey
 
right on guys.

The newbies rule this thread!

SmellyFuzz i bet you didnt expect to be beaten in a conversation by a bunch of "wallpaper" did you?
hehehe...

its just a bit of fun - everyone calm down - Think of the music.

yiordanaki
 
yeah im with corey!!

you teach a dog with treats if it does it right, not abuse if its doing it wrong!
You catch more bees with honey than with vinegar!

No one ever said you were a bad singer(even if they were thinkin it), and no one reputed the fact that you have spent a long amount of time learning about singing with you gay teachers or whatever you call them!

everyone has just agreed on the fact that your a loser.

I dont understand though, im the only one who is trying to put you in your place, though i must admit at the end there synergy and corg got some good swings in, and your calling every single newbie a
UNGRATEFUL LITTLE FUCK.
Click to expand...
im not even a newbie and yet you still seem to only attack them! is this cos you feel more powerful than them?? or is it because they dont know where you live so you can act all tough??
OR is it coz your too scared to just pick on ME??

yiordanaki didnt even SAY anything too you or about you!!
and whats your problem with synergy?? just coz he tells it how it is??

Now i dont hate you or despise you or anything, because i know that everyone can change no matter how sad of a person they are. and even though its gonna take a LOT of work to get you almost able to speak like a real, civilized human being, you should keep at it and maybe in years to come someone might get to "like" you.

balshazza
 
round 2... :D

no, just some things I want to know:

chris, you mentioned rod stewart as some kind of bad example for technique.

can you give some examples of popular rock/pop singers that actually sing "bel canto" style - whatever this may be ;) - if there's any.

i think axl rose and vince neil are not :D , but hell, I would be glad if I could do something like that.


and balshazza: you're just stupid. there really ARE famous singers who damaged their voice by just singing, i.e. Jon Bonjovi. His band-mates had to help him out with some vocal-parts until he got a vocal-coach who helped him / his voice to survive the slippery when wet tour.
 
six said:
round 2... :D

can you give some examples of popular rock/pop singers that actually sing "bel canto" style - whatever this may be ;) - if there's any.
Click to expand...

Bel canto means, simply, "Beautiful singing".

According to my music book, it is "a style of singing developed in Italy during the Renaissance, characterized by brilliant vocal ornamentation and purity of tone".

For purity of tone I'd nominate Karen Carpenter and Ella Fitzgerald. For ditto plus brilliant ornamentation, Whitney Houston, perhaps?

Maybe Chris has more precise ideas.

Sarah
 
Bel Canto means many things to many people. Sarah's definition is accurate, though a typical definition that has been very generalized. As far as the singing technique, there are many people who have many different opinions, conceptualizations, etc. of what the technique does/does not involve. For my very detailed description of roughly how the technique works and what the technique involves (though by no means complete...), please read back through the posts on this thread. I think I have been quite detailed. (See writings by Lamperti and Caruso for more....)

The technique, as I have described and am learning to use, is discouragingly a dying art. Why? The lessons are BORING!! Repetition, repetition, repetition..... 25 minutes of exercises, and 10 minutes of repertoire. It is hard to teach. Essentially, it is a sensation... hard to explain and conceptualize. You also can't see it, so it is difficult to show. (and impossible to read and write...) Also, many of the people who used the technique, when it was widely popular (the "golden age of singing" around the turn of the century) did not teach it (busy singing, kept it as their secret, whatever....), or at least did not teach it well. I'm sure there are other reasons....

Read back and see my examples of students travelling through Italy, and of students coming to Canada from the SW United States to find teachers who teach this way, because they can't find them elsewhere. Not many people use it, because not many people know it.

Many of the techniques used today involve the old "drop your jaw, exaggerate the vowels with your your lips, etc." ideals, which are actually counter-productive to singing. After decades of promoting these ideals, it is now hard to find a teacher that does not teach like that..... bye, bye, bel canto....

Examples..... most are/have been in the field of opera. However, apparently (...as second-hand information...), Sinatra and Dean Martin used it. Many singers who flourished around the time of the "golden age of singing" (or shortly thereafter) used it. Nowadays, though I can't back this up, Whitney Houston uses it. Again, with many variations of the technique, I can't say how involved their level of technique is, except to say that they subscribe to the bel canto idea of singing.

One example that I am 100% sure of, because I know that he takes lessons (for the last 20 years, or thereabouts...) from the same guy I do, so I know he uses EXACTLY the same technique that I have written about. Check out www.planethelix.com for info on Brian Vollmer of the Canadian rock band, Helix. The audio portion had been disabled for a while, but I think it is back up. They had albums that went gold world-wide, so I guess you could say that they WERE popular. (mid-80's or so...) After you check out that, you can go to www.brianvollmer.com and hear operatic examples of his work. He has a truly awesome voice.

Chris
 
thank you sarah and chris


i'll have a look at this brian vollmer dude.



cheers

six
 
Hey um, SUX or whatever your name is......





bite me!

1st of all - bonjovi doesnt "sing". i dont know what you call it but it aint singing.

Secondly - Bonjovi is a poof

Thirdly - You poof i cant believe you like bonjovi!!

oh and wheres all this proof???

Did you know that Michael Jackson isnt really human??? hes a robot!!

believe me???


well i have the same amount of proof as you so BACK OFF!!!
 
hey balshazza... how old are you? 12? listening to shrimp biscuit and eminem or what?
 
Bon Jovi

Whether anyone is a fan of his or not, there has to be a certain level of acknowledgement of his influence on popular music. When Slippery When Wet came out, it essentially (along with Def Leppard's "Pyromania" album) made the statement that that was the sort of music we would be listening to for a few years to come. (much like Nirvana's "Nevermind" album) So, "hair rock" as everyone likes to call it was in. Everything after that, for about 7 years, was measured against what Bon Jovi was doing.

Then grunge came... hair-rock was totally irrelevant - so the industry and the typical consumer would have us believe. Pearl Jam and Nirvana were king. Around 1993, when hair-rock was everyone's favourite kicking target, and Bon Jovi (being the poster-children of the entire genre) was at the height of their supposed irrelevance, something happened..... Yes, ol' Mr. Jon Bon - Mr. Irrelevant himself - cut his hair. All of a sudden, the entire world was talking about him again!! The industry was in an uproar! No, he didn't find a cure for cancer, or release another album to define a generation.... the guy got a haircut!! So what? Well... all the grunge kings went out and cut theirs too!! Then all the grunge wannabes cut theirs too!! Influence.... when one was at the height of his irrelevance!!

Despite the whole grunge movement, he continued to sell a good number of records throughout the '90's, and has survived the whole decade of "anti-hair" music, and is again selling as many albums, if not more, than those who spit him out almost ten years previous. He is one of the few "survivors" of that era.

Am I a fan? Sort of, but I only have two of his albums - so not that much a fan. He writes great melodies, has a knack for hooks - both of which rival anyone previous. I've seen him live - he CAN sing. (not outstanding, but by no means poor)

Why do people have to slam others for reasons based on nothing more than rhetoric?

Chris
 
chris...that last post was right on the money...i too am not a huge fan of bonjovi...but my wife is and i have heard all of his albums...and would have to agree HUGE HOOKS AND MELODIES..and even if its not my personal choice i always listen because well..i am a fan of music and especially writing and these guys do that extremely well....i dont care if its polka music if the message makes you listen ...and yeah richie sambora has the better voice.....at least range i guess........
anyway..very well put !


jamal:)
 
Thanks, Jamal! I agree with you about Richie Sambora having the better voice. I guess the clincher was that Jon was way more of a chick magnet, though, so he got the front-man gig.

Oh, well.... life in the corporate arena, eh?

Chris
 
:D

I wouldn't say Richie has the better voice. I think his style of singing is just more emotional/bluesy. I also think that on tour Jon doesn't sing with all the power he actually could; he used to in the 80's - read above what happened.

I mean if Jon's voice cracks the whole show is in danger whereas they could easily play a song where they don't need Richie's backing vocals.

Anyway: I love Richie as a Musician and he's maybe the biggest influence on my guitar playing. It's a shame his solo stuff doesn't have the success Jon's stuff has - and this most probably only because of the "smile-effect" (and maybe because some people still don't get the difference between "Jon Bon Jovi" and "Bon Jovi"). But hey - it's not Jon's fault.
 
Hey good guess six. I am twelve!!
Limp Bizkit - Gay like "Six"
Eminem - I dont believe you even brought him up!!! what do you think about him constantly?? wouldnt surprise me, youd be his type.

and no, i dont listen to that crap.

try real music like Hepcat, Ben Harper, Beck, Goldfinger, Millencolin, Pennywise, Chilli peppers, Reel Big fish, Sublime, Unwritten law and the like.

you see my friend, six, its very low to try and degrade other people by saying they have the characteristics of a child, i would never do that to you. Just because your name is "six" doesnt mean i would start making fun of you because "thats what your age is." I know that your name, "Six", is much more indicative of your IQ.

Every body Ive just got a couple of things to say to you. "Its my life" and "im gona live my life everyday", but hey "this aint a love song", so "keep the faith".

balshazza
 
drama-free post time

i'd love to find a real teacher that could give me some feedback/instruction on vocals-i have a pretty decent range and quite a bit of power (by the standards i've seen, anyway-not saying this just to sound cool), but i'd like my voice to last-sometimes, especially when i get up toward the a-above-high-a, i can make my voice a bit raw. i'd also love to pull a little more power at the low end, and i'd also like to learn some "screaming" technique-i'm starting to figure out a little on my own, i think, but since it doesn't come as naturally to me as singing, i'd dig some lessons. "bel canto", at least in theory, souds to me like a good solution for at least the more melodic/technical aspects of singing. so-anyone have a suggestion as to how i can find a "real" or "good" bel canto teacher in my area? i'm not especially well-off financially, so i don't know that i have the money for the most decorated teacher around, but i'd like to find someone who is going to really be able to provide me with useful lessons. i'm in the raleigh, nc area. any tips or links would be appreciated.
 
I have sung all my life but have never tried to sing. I just open my mouth and let it go and I actually get paid for it. I am my own worst critic and I have to remember that everytime I listen to my own voice in a recording, I hate it, but some people love it.
I dont care how many lessons you take or how good a singer you are, some people are going to love your voice and others are going to tell you you cant sing your way out of town.
You may think you are the best singer on the planet but two out of ten people will think you suck.
 
DRAGON;

I will testify to that.

Just one thing though, lessons will improve what you already have.
Lessons will also lengthen the time you can sing.

Sean
 
singing is a natural bodily function.

unless you scream your voice spastic every night and it hurts so much you cant swallow, your voice will be fine!!!

music is about having a good time. not hating yourself and criticising every little fault. NEWSFLASH - nobodies perfect, hence nobody will ever achieve a perfect voice.

Jebediah - guy cant sing to save his life, yet hes a legend. Coincidence??

Dragonworks - You are living proof, your successful with your music/singing and you never had a lesson.

Smelly... - youve been taking lessons for thirty years or something stupid and wheres it got you? i bet the only reason you take lessons is so you feel more accomplished than everybody else, so you can try and tell people what to do and say how good you are.


balshazza
 
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