Sennheiser E609 Silver VS Shure SM57

  • Thread starter Thread starter canadianrocker
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btr31 said:
But, any professional engineer would say to start with a 57 on guitar. Sure, there are other mics that sometimes will be better for the job. and more times than none, the 57will probably be your best sounding mic for guitar, in the mix.
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What are you talking about? Just because the 57 is commonly used doesn't mean that "any professional engineer" starts with a 57. Anytime I hear someone talk in broad sweeping generalizations like these, I know that they probably don't know what they're talking about. Many of the pros I read about don't use the 57 on anything. Most of the time, when I read about guitar amp recording in the studio, the pros use a nice LDC or a nicer dynamic. I'm not denying that the 57 is widely used, but there's certainly not a consensus that it should be the first choice mic for amps.
 
Now, even though I proclaim that the 609 kicks the 57's ass on guitar amps... well... NEITHER of those mics, and I have both, EVER make it to final takes on my songs. I mean, the 609 might make it occasionally, the 57 never. I almost always pull the 441 out 1st for the close mic, and almost never have any desire to change mics. If I do find the desire, I grab a 421 and put there next. I dont know if I have ever needed to go farther.

Now, on to other issues...
someone said that the 57 really takes time and placement to get what you want out of it, and someone else said it takes a 14 million dollar preamp to make it sound good.
Now, going on those statements.... if the 609 sounds better on the cabinet immediatly, just think how it will sound if you spend all day getting it placed.... oh yeah, let me finish whacking off real quick... I'm back... now, add in that $35,000,435.00 preamp, and now the 57 is really a loser.
Wait, did I say loser. Yes! I did. Damn me.
Peace
Paul
 
i know a generation of platinum recording engineers would disagree with yall about the 57 sucking, but thats why recording is an ART and not a science. Its all subjective

FWIW my SM7 sounded like azz thru my mackie pre's but sounds pretty damn good thru my RNP and MP2r
 
alright, let me re-phrase myself. i didn't mean that i know anything about every professional engineer. i was just speaking more for general knowledge. the 57 is condsidered a standard for recording guitar cabs. this in know way generalizes engineers that i obviously dont know.
 
well, just because the 57 seems to be very sensitive to mic placement and pre-amps does not mean the 609 is. I dont have experience with this, but obviously neither do you. The 609 could be a more point and shoot mic that is more pleasing with cheap pre-amps. Their may be "better" or "better quality" dynamics with expensive pre-amps. but....with out having tested the 609 with expensive pre-amps, you dont know. the 57 however has been said to shine with these. so.........THE 57 WINS! hah
 
Wait now... I've tested ALL of my mics through Great River NV, DRS-1, and my RNP's.... I DO Know.
Thanks.
Paul
 
I must agree with tubedude. My ears aren't trained as to pick out the little nuances of different mics yet, but the difference between the 57 and the 609 silver were like night and day. I was able to hear the "meatier" tone instantley with the 609.

btr31,

Your argument has no logic into it. You're basically saying that the 57 will sound great with a great pre-amp, and the 609 won't sound as good with the same pre-amp. I don't think that any mic has an inverse relationship with the quality of pres. Just my observation.
 
Laaaaadies and Gennnnntlemen...

In this corner, chessparov with 2500+ posts, wearing the white trunks, with his trusty SM57.
In the other corner, tubedude with 3300+ posts, wearing the blue trunks with the NEW challenger, the E609.

Thanks for the kind words Tea.

I understand how some AE's think EQing the SM57 can be a PITA
sometimes. If you get the sound you want from the Sennie that's cool too.

BTW there ARE times when an otherwise lesser mic pre matchs
up better with a given mic vs. a more expensive one.
For example, Harvey has noted that the SP VTB-1 does better on the RCA 77 DX ribbon vs. the RNP.
Bob Ohlsson, for another example, thinks very highly of the DMP2
in conjunction with the SM57 on vocals when he tried them out.
(along with RNC for compression)

Tube, try a Shure 545 series sometime.
IMHO it's a good remedy (other than SM7) for the "dislike the '57"
crowd. Less boxy and clearer from the get go, you'll hear the
difference right away, due to the different presence peak.

Chris
 
Yeeehaaa!

Thanks, Chessparov! Now I have a function for the 3 ancient 545's I have laying around! I need to buy a special 4pin-to-3pin cable (about $40 apiece) to be able to use them, and I was wondering if it was worth the effort and expense. I always considered them a sort of poor man's 57 (can there be such a thing?), being very similar, but not quite up to the vocal quality of a 57. Got any idea how they work on drums? Or anything else, for that matter?

I've got 3 more mics, I've got 3 more mics...

Doesn't take much to make me happy.
 
And while we're at it...

what's the difference between the silver and the black ones other than color and about $200?
 
Re: And while we're at it...

Cardioidpotent said:
what's the difference between the silver and the black ones other than color and about $200?
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The black is sounds really flat with a different (but good) midrange. The Silver sounds more bright, with a different but good midrange, and is modeled more like the old Senn MD-409 Gold.
 
my main point about the pre-amps is that a really expensive pre-amp will bring out the flaws and good things in a mic. now, if their were flaws that were in the 609 and weren't heard with the cheap pre amp....it would come out in a more expensive pre-amp. and considering the 57 is only suposed to get better with with expensive pre-amps....thats where i get my reasoning to think the 57 might be better. and it would be the reason it is considered to be a quality cheap dynamic.
 
I never wanted to start a heated debate with my initial query. I was just searching for something that sounded *different* than a 57. The E609 does sound different. For what I was after, it fits my requirement. Some people may prefer the 57 - up to them. I'm not saying choose one, you can even use both together!

I do find the E609 has a larger difference in where you place it in relation to the speaker. Moving it even 1/4" I can notice more frequency capture change than moving the 57 the same amount.

I have subsequently found that the E609 has more bass proximity effect, and putting it right up against the grill cloth often results in too boomy a sound.

As far as mic preamps - my ideal preamp will only boost volume and not change tone characteristics. So a great preamp won't make a mic sound any better, maybe different, but you could acheive the same results with EQ.
 
great pre amp......"only louder"??....what? you are wrong. im sorry. a great pre-amp ALWAYS makes a mic sound better. yes different...BETTER!
 
and NO. eq does not do the same thing as a great pre-amp. notice the EXPENSIVE side of it. if you could do the same thing with eq then the pre-amp would serve no purpose and wouldn't exist now wouldn't it?
 
Cardiod, the SM57 and 545 share the same Unidyne III capsule, but they have some different parts. The 545 is NOT an inferior '57.

It came out around 1959, and the SM57 in 1966. The 545's can be a little more sensitive to
handling, whereas the SM57 has a built-in shock mount to counter this.
(my Shure 546 has this shockmounting)

The "Made In USA" 545's and SM57's are known
tend to have better high and low end response,
plus closer tolerances to one another vs. the ones later made in Mexico.

The secret of how these microphones can sound terrific is the placement/EQing of the Unidyne III capsule, which is also the heart of the mighty SM7.

Chris
 
So what would you say the sonic difference is between the 57 and 545?

Also, do the 609 Silvers really shine (no pun intended) on anything other than guitar cabs?

I also think it's interesting that Canadianrocker doesn't like the 609 up against the grill, when I swear I always see them hanging up against a grill, just kind of draped over a cab or combo unit. Unless those are different mics that just look alot like 609s.
 
btr31 said:
great pre amp......"only louder"??....what? you are wrong. im sorry. a great pre-amp ALWAYS makes a mic sound better. yes different...BETTER!
Click to expand...

He's saying that he prefers "straight wire with gain" type preamps. Do you know what those are? He wants an amp that does not add to the flavor of the mic, but that just makes it louder. Preamps like the Grace Designs, the True Systems, the Sytek. Good preamps do not always make a mic sound better, sometimes they just make it as good as it can be.

My advice to you, since you don't seem to be extremely knowledgeable, would be to stop speaking in broad sweeping terms, like "always". Take that word out of your vocabulary, and quit pretending you know more than you do. You're misleading people.
 
No, EQ-ing is not the same thing at all. If you are doing heavy guitars, I would say you would be more interested in something really colored if you ever heard the difference, like an MP-1-NV. It can really thicken a heavy guitar up, make it nicer.
I kinda like real clean preamps too, but I kinda like anything that doesnt get in my way and helps me get what I want at the end of the mix.
Paul
 
tubedude said:
No, EQ-ing is not the same thing at all.
Click to expand...

I completely agree that EQ'ing is different that the color that is imparted by "character" mic amps, but btr31 was implying that all good preamps improve on a mic's sound, and this is clearly not true. Not only that, but he was so damn sure that he was right, and that good preamps ALWAYS added to the sound.

This is the problem with the internet. Anyone can get on a message board and pretend they know what they're talking about.
 
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