Sax Recording... really need some help here

  • Thread starter Thread starter acleitao
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One more try... diferent setup...

Zoom H4 using Samson Vr88 Ribbon mic... Recorded at passenger sit of my car LOL

Is a little better (but I'm missing the preamp to warm things up). Try to relax(maybe less bitting now) more but I think Lt. Bob got it... I need more open mpc and a harder reed... if a blow harder sounds awfull...

Let me know what you thing... better? worst? more tips?

thx
 

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that sounds a little better to me. Are you using the #3 on that or is that still a #2?
 
2 1/2 the only that I have with me today (I'll buy a 3 tomorrow) but you're right... my lips are burning because I try to not bit and only suport the reed :D the recording isnt better but the sax sound better... I think that happens because I didnt use the preamp (cannot power it on in the car)... LOL
 
well , the only way to get confortable with the harder reeds is to spend time on them.
Even after 40 years of it, I still have a bit of trouble with 5's if I get a couple of weeks where I'm playing more guitar than sax.
So I make a point to put in time every gig on sax regardless of if it's a sax gig or not.
Good luck man.
 
Guys... Thx so much... I mean it.... I know its not perfect... but now that I know what is the problem I can work to solve it...

Tim and Lt Bob thx for the amazing playing tips... and for made me saw (or make me see or made me see I dont really know what is the correct form LOL) what is holding my playing ... now I just have to work on it....

Miroslav and jjjtttggg your help about gear, recording and mixing really show me that my gear is not the worst in the world and I can get some decent with it... thx (you show me that I dont have to spend more money on that for now)

so one more track that IMO is a lot better then the others (theres plenty of room to learn and work on but for the first time I really enjoy hearing something that I recorded)

thx again
Alexandre
 

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Dude!!!!

I halfway think you were messing with us with your first go! This one is great!!! Sorry I missed your question from yesterday. It does seem a little wierd to have a drive control on a pre, and I don't have any experience with it. However, I do know what the designers are trying to give you, and I think it's a good idea. As a guitar player, I'm very familiar with driving a tube, which is what the drive control is doing. I don't know what the exact ciruit in your pre is but they're all kind of similar. The drive control regulates how strong the input signal is as it goes into the tube stage. The tube amplifies it, and then the gain control lets you turn the output down to whatever final level you want. The key concept (and the main point of using a tube) is that the tube stage can only go so loud before it hits its 'max'. So when the input signal gets to the point that the amplified output signal is at max, the output will just stay at that max level, even as the input continues to go up. This will happen on each cycle of the waveform. Picture an input waveform that might look like a sine wave. The tube will amplify it so the peak to peak gets larger, but when it hits its max, those peaks will get flattened on top. This same effect applies to every amplier or preamplifier in the world, and we call this flattening of the peaks 'clipping'. (If you know all of this, feel free to hit the scroll down button:)). In general, clipping is a bad thing. An amplifier, in general, is supposed to give you a louder version of the input at the output. If all the peaks are 'clipped' off, clearly that's not what we're getting. What we're getting is a distorted version of the input. With transistor based amplifiers, as the signal increases the amplifier tends to operate as if nothing is wrong almost right up to the max and then the waveform 'suddenly' flattens out. This sounds really bad. The thing that makes tubes sound 'good', on the other hand, is that as the output approaches the max on each cycle of the waveform, it starts sort of "slowing down" waaaay ahead of time, so that it flattens out very smoothly. Unlike the sudden flattening, this smooth flattening often sounds 'good'. For guitars, it sounds REALLY good, even better than the undistorted signal would. I have no experience with tube pre's, but supposedly the same is true with a microphone signal. That's why tube pre's exist. The drive control lets you regulate how far into this smoothly flattened out region the amp operates. With the drive set low, the input signal is low enough that even after being amplified by the tube, it doesn't reach the max, so there is virtually no distortion. Turn the drive up and at first the tops of the peaks in the waveform will just start to get rounded. This is where it should sound best with a microphone, although as I've already said, I have no personal experience with this. With a guitar, depending on what kind of sound your looking for it can sound good all the way to full drive. The gain and drive controls work together, because as the drive is turned up, of course, the output gets louder and louder. For reasons that are hard to explain, even when the peaks are flattened, as you turn the drive up and they get more flattened, the output will get louder (and more distorted, of course). You use the gain knob to turn it back to the level you want - peaks just below 0dB.

As for which inputs/outputs to use, I agree with Miroslav that you are doing it right. Balanced output from the pre to the mic input on the interface. You definitely are kind of running a preamp into a preamp, but with the sensitivity control, you can match the levels. You just turn the sensitivity down so that the interface itself doesn't have anygain since your pre has already given you a standard level signal. You might want to experiment with the mic straight into the interface. Your interface is designed to handle a mic level signal. You will just have to crank the sensitivity up so that its own internal preamp provides the needed gain to bring up the microphones signal. Try it both ways and you can judge for yourself whether the tube is improving the sound.

Anyway, sorry to write such a long post. You're latest tracks sound great, so clearly you've figured out how to work your gear already. Keep on playing and keep on recording!

J
 
well ...... it's not your lungs that'll have a hard time. It's your lips. It doesn't take a lot more air to play a harder reed but it DOES take more lip strength and endurance.
For sure try that 3 at least and see what that does.

You can build a house with left over 5's. You're a cruel bastard, Bob.:D

Take the Lt's advice....he's right on the money...and for what it's worth, experiment with some more open chambers as well. I little bit of a closed lay will be ok with at least a good medium chamber behind it. I used to move back and forth between a Meyer 6, medium and a 9, open. The nine would peel paint at 100 yards but you better have chops of steel to control it. The 6/med combo was tight and punchy as all hell, but would behave with a nice 3 and not wear my ass out.:D

Oh and your mic positioning was probably pretty good. I used to use an AKG C414 mid horn at about 2 ft away and got really good results from it.
 
Sorry for the late on answering :D busy days at work... its 23 o'clock and I just get home... to much work and no fun makes me sad :D

You can build a house with left over 5's. You're a cruel bastard, Bob.:D

Take the Lt's advice....he's right on the money...and for what it's worth, experiment with some more open chambers as well. I little bit of a closed lay will be ok with at least a good medium chamber behind it. I used to move back and forth between a Meyer 6, medium and a 9, open. The nine would peel paint at 100 yards but you better have chops of steel to control it. The 6/med combo was tight and punchy as all hell, but would behave with a nice 3 and not wear my ass out.:D

Oh and your mic positioning was probably pretty good. I used to use an AKG C414 mid horn at about 2 ft away and got really good results from it.

I took his advice... I'm having a hard time here LOL...I lost the embouchure point where I get that sound LOL... I cannot play anything (well I couldnt play before as well but you know what I mean LOL) I'll try a medium chamber mouth piece... I use to have a bob dukoff D7 but I just couldnt control it... but lets see whats happen... thx for the help....

Dude!!!!

(If you know all of this, feel free to hit the scroll down button:))
I'll never do that for two reasons... 1-even if I know about what you trying to explain you can have a different point of view and 2- you work hard to write that so the least I can do is read :D....

Just to keep you informed... best results using the preamp... the interface preamp is good but nothing like a tube preamp :D ....


So I found something that is a little strange here... when I record with sonar (version 8 producer) I have to use levels and driver on the preamp set to 3 as well the sens of the interface more than that get clip on the daw... when I'm using cubase 5.1 I can turn up the levels to 5 on gain and drive (preamp) and 3 on the interface without clipping.... any toughts on that? really ackwards dont you think? any way sorry for the bad english I'm too tired to think about what I just wrote LOL....
 
you will have to go to harder reeds gradually. If you were using 2's before don't go right to 3's. do the 2 1/2's for a while first.
It was only a weeks or so ago that you first posted on this. Getting to a 3 from a 2 should really take a month or two of fairly constant playing.
You shouldn't try to do what I do right off the bat ..... I've been playing 4 and 5 hours a night for 40 years. You can't just suddenly do what I do. Relax and take your time.
 
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