s.o.s. i had a studio disaster

  • Thread starter Thread starter jugalo180
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jugalo180

jugalo180

www.moneyistherecipe.com
i ordered this rnc, which i hear mixed reviews about. i just recently read that it's pretty transparent, and i need color. i've been expereminting with my waves c1 and stienbergs mastering compressor and i like those a lot. the problem i have is this. i know my equipment so i can get a good signal to noise when i record my vocals, but for the first time i had some freinds over to record. this recording session was a nightmare. no one liked the way i had the vocals and music set in the head phones, i couldn't get them to get a good signal to noise, it was too much adjusting and readjusting to do for each artist.

would this compressor make life easier for me? how? i was going to kick back that rnc because i don't need anything transparent but then again i do need something to help me raise my signal to noise ratio.

will a compressor allow me to turn up the vocals coming from the mic so that no matter how low or loud they speak during recording it will be at a constant 6db?

i read that it is better to compress during the mix, wouldn't compressing during tracking benifit if you have certain occasions with a screamer, or a whisperer?
 
Well i read in books that compressor should not be used as an effect. Meaning, should not be added after the mix. Its best if you buy some hardware compressor. I got my RNC just yesterday. I ll tell you how it sounds, when i get home today.
 
What you are talking about is limiting.

Compressing your track to constant 6dB will sound like ass. There will be ZERO dynamic range!
 
okay rileyl357

how would i use the limiter in my delimma?
where should it go in the signal chain?
how should i set it?
 
My 2 cents on this......
Limiting is best used during tracking, in between the preamp and converters, as little as is necessary to keep the signal out of the red, but hot enough to use all the bits. Compression is best used during mixdown, as an insert, and applied non -destructively so that it can be changed as the mix develops. Occasionally I'll put on a nice optical compressor during vocal tracking if it helps the singer worry less about control and get into the song more, especially if it's a particularly dynamic vocal.
The thing is, what sounds good on a solo instrument or voice is rarely what sounds good in the context of the mix. It's always possible to add more compression later, but removing it later (by expansion) is difficult at best. This is no different than anything else you commit to tape or disk. The more decissions you leave for mixdown, the more open your options are and the less things you are stuck with.

Joki - Maybe what you read was that compressors shouldn't be used in an effects loop, or applied like an effect using an aux send and return? That would be very true. Dynamics processors are almost always inserted in the entire signal path, as opposed to an effects send, which just splits off a bit of the signal to be processed and then mixed back in with the dry signal.

Cheers, RD
 
Hey there jugalo,

I love the RNC. I have 1/2 a dozen of them! I don't really like them for bass, I use
my DBX 180's for that, but they work splendedly for vox.

As for your headphone dillema, I went through a similar ordeal "back in the day"...lol!
The solution, if you can afford it, is get a headphone distribution system and let'm
all do their own headphone mixes.
I use the Furman HDS-6 with 2 sub-boxes, one in the vox booth and one at the drums.
It's being fed from the 4 sub-outs on my mon-mix board.

Solved a bunch of prob's.

jef
 
cool

thanks rick and jeff. i'm considering on not getting the limiter and just getting a compressor, but a colorful one. the headphone distribution center is ingenious.
 
I always compress on the way in with my vocals... Rap and R&B. It just sounds better to me. At least with the rap vocals.

AS far as other cats... You're main concern should be the end results. Getting a proper signal to give up a good mix. If cats complaining they will get over it when they hear you recorded em good I use the settings I prefer... I get tired of people telling me they can't hear their own voice in the headphones. I hate hearing my voice through the phones. keep mines half off when spitting. I'm not adjusting dick for any one cat. He'll get over it... Every setup is different and adapting is part of the process if you aren't doing it yourself. My settings work for me and are set up to give me the best results on any voice. Some may be better than others but all are decent. I get decent results in the end so no changes until I see it as necessary.

Just my thoughts.
 
yo, lazi

i was considering this rnc compressor which will be here tomorrow to ge rid of these wimpy waves that i have been getting. when i turn the volume up on the mixer for the mic, i get this terrible feedback. will a compressor help me out? or a limiter like stated above. i can look for something that has both.
 
so they didn't like the level of the vocals after they finished recording? or they didn't like the level of their vocal monitoring in the headphones?

having a compressor isn't the way to fix that problem. compressors are for controlling dynamics not for pushing gain.

if you are happy with the levels going in to the recorder you need a separate gain structure for what the vocalist hear.

this is what i have:

at4033 --> RNP --> tango24 --> mackie1604 --> headphones

what goes into the recording is dictated by the gain on the RNP, but i can push the gain on the 1604 (post record) so the stupid vocalist can hear themselves in the phones.
 
ok cross

i'll fool around with this art tube pre. the vocals in the headphones were the problem, but i think i'm going to have to lay down the law in here. this was just a project studio for my prerecordings. i had this bright idea to be nice to a couple of people and let them come over like twice a week. i just want to get some experience with working with other people and to build me up some vocals to sample(muyaaaaa muyaaaa)lol.
 
My advice is to keep the RNC, it's an excellent compressor,
almost universally praised FWIW.
On the vocals, these (starting) settings may help you during tracking.

1) Ratio set at 2:1
Attack set between 3ms & 5ms
(tendency is faster the attack=smoother, for a "rocker"
perhaps 5ms for a more punchy tone)
Release set between 500ms (.5 second)
and 750ms (.75 second)
"Supernice" button switched OFF

Or...

2) Ratio set at 4:1
Attack & Release used same as above
"Supernice" button switched ON

In either case you could aim for 3-4 dB or LESS of signal reduction
from compression to have some elbow room for further compression during mixing, if indicated. As you continue to work
with compression you'll be able to earball it better.

Worth a try IMHO.

Chris
 
ok

i'll give it some hard thought chess. i have a few hours before the ups deliverer gets here.
 
LAZI said:
I always compress on the way in with my vocals... Rap and R&B. It just sounds better to me. At least with the rap vocals.

AS far as other cats... You're main concern should be the end results. Getting a proper signal to give up a good mix. If cats complaining they will get over it when they hear you recorded em good I use the settings I prefer... I get tired of people telling me they can't hear their own voice in the headphones. I hate hearing my voice through the phones. keep mines half off when spitting. I'm not adjusting dick for any one cat. He'll get over it... Every setup is different and adapting is part of the process if you aren't doing it yourself. My settings work for me and are set up to give me the best results on any voice. Some may be better than others but all are decent. I get decent results in the end so no changes until I see it as necessary.

Just my thoughts.
Click to expand...

Word, Lazi-bro: stupid ass musicians... who the hell cares if they can hear themselves well enough to give their best possible performance. As if it was all about the music! They all suck anyway. All that matters is that nobody hassles the engineer. Just do like I do and tell them: "Shut the f--k up and know your f--kin' role!" :mad:

(Of course, with some gangsta artists you may want to have bullet-proof glass in the control room...)
 
Robert D said:

Joki - Maybe what you read was that compressors shouldn't be used in an effects loop, or applied like an effect using an aux send and return? That would be very true. Dynamics processors are almost always inserted in the entire signal path, as opposed to an effects send, which just splits off a bit of the signal to be processed and then mixed back in with the dry signal.

Cheers, RD
Click to expand...



Robert - You are right. I just checked the book, again. Sorry for the mistake.
 
Word, Lazi-bro: stupid ass musicians... who the hell cares if they can hear themselves well enough to give their best possible performance. As if it was all about the music! They all suck anyway. All that matters is that nobody hassles the engineer. Just do like I do and tell them: "Shut the f--k up and know your f--kin' role!"
Click to expand...

Good sarcasm usually gets lost with just typed words... Great job expressing yourself in that post.

And your advise was?
 
joki

how is that rnc working for you? if you were using plugins, is it better than those? if so which plugins were you using? i have the waves platinum bundle, i'm still trying to get the feel of them.
 
aaaah, the newbie discovers the wonderful world of multiple headphone mixes. This is the uncommon undiscussed part of audio engineering and I know someone is a newbie when they don't talk about headphone mixes. In my experience this is one of the most difficult parts of engineering. Trying to track and have 6 completely different headphone mixes going while watching all the levels going to tape, headphone amp leves, send levels, and each track level feeding 6 different headphone mixes all while under the gun of being payed a grand a day. fun fun fun. No magazine or message board can teach you this, it only comes from practice. A good headphone amp, good headphones, and a good satellite system that the musician can adjust makes all the difference. I actually have small vlz mackie mixers for individual musicians which receive multiple feeds and it gives them some control over their mixes. The nubmeister shows up extra earlier before every tracking session just to set up really kick ass headphone mixes. I try to get them close to a final mix with gates, compressers, sometimes effects, etc. The better the headphone mixes, the better the musicians play and the better tracks you get. Practice practice practice!
 
damn straight nubs.

some vocalist like to hear themselves, some vocalist don't. some vocalist like the music in the headphones nice and loud, some don't. you've got to satisfy everyone.
 
wish i was getting paid like that nubz

it's cool to be under that kind of pressure when you have some sense of direction. mine is very limited. if i was more experienced the challenge would be worth while. now it's just aggravating as hell. it's not even like i have a studio. i just call it that to justify the purchases of my equipment.
 
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